The Seen and the Unseen - hosted by Amit Varma
Ep 329: Murali Neelakantan Looks at the World
Episode guests
Podcast summary created with Snipd AI
Quick takeaways
- Understanding the impact of family dynamics and personal growth through parental experiences and reflections.
- Exploring the significance of deliberate actions in nurturing meaningful friendships beyond school and university connections.
- Reflecting on ethical dilemmas and professional integrity in legal practice, balancing legal fidelity and client responsibilities.
- Navigating the complexities of the legal system in India, highlighting challenges in accessing justice and systemic inadequacies.
- Anticipating economic trends and making strategic decisions in response to the 2008 economic crisis for resilience in the global financial landscape.
- Embracing intellectual curiosity, interdisciplinary perspectives, and ethical development in legal education for holistic understanding and professional growth.
Deep dives
Father's Transformation
Before turning 30, the speaker's relationship with his father was distant and often unpleasant, characterized by humiliations during chess lessons and attempted math teaching. However, after the speaker turned 30 and his father retired, their relationship became warmer. His father seemed more at peace, potentially no longer consumed by anger but focused on present matters, leading to a significant shift in their dynamic.
Mother's Journey
The speaker's mother had a challenging school experience, where she faced punishment for not conforming to the affluent environment around her. After getting married early, she confronted difficulties in married life and experienced joy and freedom in the initial years before the responsibilities of family life kicked in. Her metamorphosis over the years saw her finding contentment through reading and social activities after her children grew up.
Intentionality in Relationships
The speaker consciously approaches relationships with intent and effort, highlighting personal growth compared to his schooling years where connections were superficial. Despite feeling a lack of close friendships during school and university, he made intentional efforts post-education to nurture meaningful friendships that continue to this day, emphasizing the value of deliberate actions in fostering strong bonds.
Family Dynamics and Personal Growth
The evolution of relationships within the speaker's family, particularly with his father and mother, showcases the impact of circumstances and individual introspection on personal growth. By discussing parental experiences and transformations, the speaker reflects on conscious choices in his own relationships and the profound influence of intentional actions on fostering bonds and responding to adversity.
Cultural Context and Life Reflections
The podcast delves into the cultural backdrop shaping the speaker's family dynamics and personal evolution, illuminating how parental experiences influenced his reflections on relationships and intentional living. Through narratives of growth and introspection within his family, the speaker offers insights into the significance of personal agency and deliberate efforts in navigating connections and personal development.
Understanding the Multifaceted Self
The concept of private and secret selves are explored, where private aspects are willing to be shared with others under certain circumstances, while secrets are kept hidden due to deep embarrassment or feelings of inadequacy. The discussion delves into distinguishing facts from personal reflections and how self-perception influences what is considered private or secret.
Exploring Melancholy and Personal Reflections
The podcast delves into the nuanced emotions of melancholy, not to be mistaken for sadness or depression, but a distinct feeling that is slightly cold compared to a warm sense of nostalgia. The conversation navigates through feelings of self-criticism, embracing vulnerabilities, and the struggle between feeling deeply and expressing joy.
Navigating Empathy and Sociopathy
The conversation transitions into a reflection on empathy and sociopathy, touching upon the biological aspects of sociopathy and the expanding circle concept by Lecky. The discussion contemplates the limits of empathy, the authenticity of care, and how behavioral aspects can transcend underlying emotional capacities, leading to diverse perspectives on self-perception and moral considerations.
Personal Values and Contradictions in Ethics and Law
The podcast episode delves into the complex interplay between personal values, ethics, and the practice of law. It explores the speaker's experiences and reflections on morality, empathy, compassion, and authenticity within the legal profession. The discussion highlights the speaker's acceptance of their changing views and values over time, acknowledging the nuances and conflicts inherent in navigating professional ethics and personal beliefs.
Critical Thinking and Academic Environment in Law School
The podcast episode showcases the importance of critical thinking and academic exploration within the law school environment. It emphasizes the speaker's experiences of engaging with conflicting ideas, diverse viewpoints, and challenging concepts in legal education. The narrative underscores the value of intellectual curiosity, open-mindedness, and debate in shaping a holistic understanding of legal principles and societal dynamics.
Application of Legal Framework in Real-world Scenarios
The podcast episode discusses the practical application of legal frameworks in real-world scenarios, highlighting the speaker's approach to interpreting laws and regulations in everyday situations. It illustrates the importance of integrating legal knowledge with current affairs, social issues, and personal experiences to enhance legal analysis and problem-solving skills. The narrative emphasizes the speaker's proactive engagement with legal concepts beyond traditional academic boundaries.
Influence of Academic Environment on Professional Growth
The podcast episode reflects on how the academic environment and intellectual stimulation in law school shape professional growth and ethical development. It underscores the speaker's evolution from a student grappling with conflicting viewpoints to a legal professional who values broad intellectual curiosity and interdisciplinary perspectives. The discussion highlights the transformative impact of academic exposure on legal practitioners' mindset, decision-making, and approach to legal challenges.
Taking a Unique Perspective on Law and Economics
Exploring the concept of law as a treasure hunt filled with connections to everyday occurrences like defamation cases and newspaper articles, the speaker finds joy in discovering new scenarios within legal frameworks. This curiosity extends beyond earning possibilities, emphasizing that passion and exploration are separate from monetization. Highlighting the need for intellectual humility, the speaker confers the importance of continuously searching for new perspectives without fixating on a singular view.
Navigating Ethical Challenges in Legal Practice
Delving into the complexities of ethical dilemmas faced in legal engagements, the speaker shares insights on the clash between fidelity to the law and responsibilities to clients. Drawing distinctions between Western and Indian legal practices, the discussion unveils the ethical conflicts arising from differing standards and approaches to legal fidelity and client representation. Emphasizing the significance of honoring professional integrity while balancing client interests, the speaker sheds light on the intricate ethical considerations in legal domains.
Embarking on a Diverse Legal Career Journey
Tracing a career path filled with innovative legal ventures, the speaker recounts experiences ranging from pioneering common carrier pipeline projects to orchestrating NASDAQ listings for Indian companies. By showcasing a penchant for unconventional legal undertakings and resisting conventional client demands, the speaker reflects on the dynamic and multifaceted nature of legal practice that diverges from traditional norms. In navigating challenges such as negotiating fees and asserting boundaries with clients, the speaker underscores a commitment to professional integrity and strategic collaboration.
Challenges Faced in a Professional Setting
Navigating the professional landscape in a foreign setting poses significant challenges, highlighted by experiences shared in the podcast episode. The speaker discussed the difficulties encountered in establishing connections at work and social integration in London, emphasizing the importance of playing cricket as a means to create social interactions. Additionally, the episode delved into the concept of generosity and reciprocity in professional relationships, shedding light on the speaker's perspective on maintaining professional boundaries and avoiding personal entanglements.
Legal System and Access to Justice in India
The episode provides insights into the legal system in India, highlighting discrepancies and inadequacies that hinder access to justice. Contrasting legal practices in the UK and India, the speaker outlined how the absence of cost repercussions for losing cases in India discourages legal excellence and perpetuates a system where justice is unattainable for many. The discussion extended to the broader notion of the rule of law in India, touching on systemic flaws that impede the effective implementation of legal principles and protection of individual rights.
Anticipating Economic Crises and Decision to Return
The podcast episode delves into the speaker's anticipation of the 2008 economic crisis and subsequent decision to return to India. Drawing from experiences in the professional realm and observations of outsourcing deals, the speaker foresaw an impending storm in the UK market and strategically opted for Asia as a more resilient option. The narrative reflects on the speaker's insightful perspective on economic trends and proactive measures taken to navigate the global financial landscape.
Book Recommendations: Quiet by Susan Cain, Fire in the Blood, Goodbye Mr. Chips, Hitler's SS: A Portrait in Evil, What Money Can't Buy by Michael Sandel
Quiet by Susan Cain provides insights into introversion with valuable lessons, Fire in the Blood is a thought-provoking movie, Goodbye Mr. Chips highlights the importance of gratitude, Hitler's SS: A Portrait in Evil showcases the transformation of ordinary individuals into Nazis, and What Money Can't Buy by Michael Sandel challenges the idea of selling everything in free markets.
TV Series Recommendation
Anwar Maqsood's series on Pakistan TV where he reads letters from historical figures like Iqbal and Jinnah offers insightful and satirical takes on society, generating inspiration and thought-provoking messages.
Life Lessons
Giving a second chance to subjects like Sanskrit and history, learning to try things twice for a fair judgment, and understanding the value of exploring varied experiences even if initially disliked, impart crucial life lessons.
Podcast Episode and Insightful Discussion
Spending a day in engaging conversation on history, markets, conformity, and personal experiences highlights the depth and breadth of insightful discussions, enriching perspectives on diverse topics.
He gave up a staggeringly successful career to live a quiet life -- and now he shares his wisdom with us. Murali Neelakantan joins Amit Varma in episode 329 of The Seen and the Unseen to talk about the life he has lived and the lessons he has learnt. (FOR FULL LINKED SHOW NOTES, GO TO SEENUNSEEN.IN.) Also check out: 1. Murali Neelankantan on Twitter and LinkedIn. 2. An Idea of a Law School -- NR Madhava Menon, Murali Neelakantan and Sumeet Malik. 3. Akshaya Mukul and the Life of Agyeya -- Episode 324 of The Seen and the Unseen. 4. The Life and Times of Shanta Gokhale — Episode 311 of The Seen and the Unseen. 5. Wanting — Luke Burgis. 6. It is immoral to have children. Here’s why — Amit Varma. 7. The Loneliness of the Indian Woman — Episode 259 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Shrayana Bhattacharya). 8. The Life and Times of Mrinal Pande — Episode 263 of The Seen and the Unseen. 9. Sara Rai Inhales Literature — Episode 255 of The Seen and the Unseen. 10. Casino Royale -- Martin Campbell. 11. Schrödinger's cat. 12. Dance Dance For the Halva Waala — Episode 294 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Jai Arjun Singh and Subrat Mohanty). 13. Right to Education: Just another law -- Meera Neelakantan. 14. The Life and Times of Abhinandan Sekhri — Episode 254 of The Seen and the Unseen. 15. The Forgotten Greatness of PV Narasimha Rao — Episode 283 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Vinay Sitapati). 16. The Prem Panicker Files — Episode 217 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Prem Panicker). 17. Major Navneet Vats SM. 18. Lifespan: Why We Age – and Why We Don’t Have To — David Sinclair. 19. The Lifespan Podcast by David Sinclair. 20. The Adda at the End of the Universe — Episode 309 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Vikram Sathaye and Roshan Abbas). 21. Loss Aversion. 22. Aandhi -- Gulzar. 23. Nowhere Near -- Yo La Tengo. 24. Dil Hi To Hai Na Sang o Hishat -- Abida Parveen. 25. Ranjish hi Sahi -- Mehdi Hasan. 26. Old Man -- Neil Young. 27. Oscar Wilde on Amazon and Wikipedia. 28. Tum Itna Jo Muskura Rahe Ho -- Jagjit Singh. 29. Bonjour Tristesse -- Françoise Sagan. 30. Everybody Lies — Seth Stephens-Davidowitz. 31. Politics and the Sociopath (2014) — Amit Varma. 32. History of European Morals — WEH Lecky. 33. The Expanding Circle — Peter Singer. 34. Dunbar's number. 35. Rankthings.io by Aella and David. 36. Aella on Twitter and Substack. 37. Ye Humse Na Hoga -- Javed Akhtar. 38. All You Who Sleep Tonight -- Vikram Seth. 39. GCN +. 40. The Gentle Wisdom of Pratap Bhanu Mehta — Episode 300 of The Seen and the Unseen. 41. The Life and Times of Jerry Pinto — Episode 314 of The Seen and the Unseen. 42. SVB, Banking and the State of the Economy -- Episode 323 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Ajay Shah and Mohit Satyanand). 43. Ashutosh Salil and the Challenge of Change -- Episode 312 of The Seen and the Unseen. 44. Laws Against Victimless Crimes Should Be Scrapped — Amit Varma. 45. One Bad Law Goes, but Women Remain Second-Class Citizens — Amit Varma. 46. ये लिबरल आख़िर है कौन? — Episode 37 of Puliyabaazi (w Amit Varma, on Hayek). 47. Elite Imitation in Public Policy — Episode 180 of The Seen and the Unseen (on isomorphic mimicry, with Shruti Rajagopalan and Alex Tabarrok). 48. The Long Road From Neeyat to Neeti — Episode 313 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Pranay Kotasthane and Raghu S Jaitley). 49. Narendra Shenoy and Mr Narendra Shenoy — Episode 250 of The Seen and the Unseen. 50. Restaurant Regulations in India — Episode 18 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Madhu Menon). 51. The Wealth of Nations -- Adam Smith. 52. The Theory of Moral Sentiments — Adam Smith. 53. Humesha Der Kar Deta Hoon Main -- Muneer Niazi. 54. The Economics and Politics of Vaccines — Episode 223 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Ajay Shah). 55. Rustom -- Tinu Suresh Desai on the Nanavati case. 56. Natasha Badhwar Lives the Examined Life — Episode 301 of The Seen and the Unseen. 57. The Nurture Assumption — Judith Rich Harris. 58. Mohit Satyanand on Twitter and Substack. 59. Episodes of The Seen and the Unseen with Mohit Satyanand: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. 60. Richard Dawkins on unpleasant gods. 61. Pushpesh Pant Feasts on the Buffet of Life -- Episode 326 of The Seen and the Unseen. 62. Three Hundred Verses: Musings on Life, Love and Renunciation -- Bhartrihari. 63. Drug Price Controls -- Episode 29 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Pavan Srinath). 64. The Dark Side of Indian Pharma — Episode 245 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Dinesh Thakur). 65. Bottle of Lies — Katherine Eban. 66. The Truth Pill: The Myth of Drug Regulation in India -- Dinesh Thakur and Prashant Reddy. 67. Fire in the Blood -- Dylan Mohan Gray. 68. New York Stories -- Martin Scorcese, Francis Ford Coppola and Woody Allen. 69. The Ideas of Our Constitution — Episode 164 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Madhav Khosla). 70. Kumārasambhava -- Kalidasa. 71. Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking -- Susan Cain. 72. Goodbye, Mr Chips -- Sam Wood. 73. Hitler's SS: Portrait in Evil -- Jim Goddard. 74. What Money Can't Buy -- Michael Sandel.
75. Tum Bilkul Hum Jaise Nikle -- Fehmida Riaz. 76. Kuchh Log Tumhein Samjhaaenge -- Fehmida Riaz. 77. The Four Quadrants of Conformism — Paul Graham. Check out Amit’s online course, The Art of Clear Writing. And subscribe to The India Uncut Newsletter. It’s free! Episode art: ‘This is the World’ by Simahina.Remember Everything You Learn from Podcasts
