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The ultimate guide to JTBD | Bob Moesta (co-creator of the framework)

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Aug 24, 2023

Guest

Bob Moesta

Bob Moesta, co-creator of the Jobs To Be Done framework and CEO of The Re-Wired Group, shares his expertise on understanding consumer behavior. He uses relatable examples, like Snickers versus Milky Way, to illustrate the essence of JTBD in product choices. The conversation covers best practices for interviews with B2B and B2C customers, common pitfalls in implementation, and when JTBD might not be the right approach. Moesta emphasizes the importance of context and genuine customer needs in driving effective product development.

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Episode notes

00:00 / 00:00

Jobs to be Done

People hire products to make progress in their lives.
Understanding this "job" reveals the true competitive landscape.

00:00 / 00:00

Snickers vs. Milky Way

Snickers is hired for a quick energy boost when missing a meal, competing with coffee or energy drinks.
Milky Way is hired for emotional regrouping, competing with wine or a brownie.

00:00 / 00:00

Demand and Struggling Moments

Demand originates from struggling moments, not products.
Southern New Hampshire University's online success stemmed from addressing the struggle of older students returning to education.

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

Understanding the Jobs to Be Done Framework

03:54 • 4min

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Understanding Customer Needs Through JTBD

07:29 • 14min

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Overcoming Reading Challenges to Master Book Writing

21:56 • 3min

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Navigating Job Transitions: Insights and Strategies

24:43 • 7min

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Understanding Customer Needs Through the Jobs To Be Done Framework

31:40 • 2min

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Unpacking Jobs To Be Done Framework

33:54 • 22min

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From Curiosity to Creation

56:09 • 4min

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Transformative Interview Insights and Personal Well-Being Strategies

01:00:11 • 3min

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From Venture Capital to Home Building

01:02:56 • 7min

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Never Split the Difference

Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It

Tahl Raz

Chris Voss

VOSS/RAZ

This book, written by former FBI hostage negotiator Chris Voss and co-author Tahl Raz, provides a masterclass in influencing others through negotiation. It distills the Voss method, revealing skills such as establishing rapport, creating trust with tactical empathy, and transforming conflict into collaboration. The book is filled with real-life examples from Voss's career, illustrating how these techniques can be applied in both professional and personal life to achieve goals and defuse potential crises.

Learning to Build

Bob Moesta

The End of Average

Todd Rose

Shape Up

Ryan Singer

Shape Up is a book by Ryan Singer that provides a practical framework for managing software development projects. It emphasizes the importance of shaping work to fit within fixed time constraints, rather than fixing the scope and letting the time vary. The book introduces a three-stage process: shaping, building, and batting, which helps teams focus on delivering valuable work efficiently. Shape Up promotes a more collaborative and autonomous approach, empowering teams to make decisions and solve problems independently. The book's principles have been adopted by numerous teams and organizations seeking to improve their product development processes.

Demand-Side Sales 101

Bob Moesta

Greg Engle

In 'Demand-Side Sales 101', Bob Moesta and Greg Engle introduce a new perspective on sales by shifting the focus from selling products to helping customers achieve their goals. This approach emphasizes understanding the customer's needs and creating solutions that align with their objectives, rather than pushing features and benefits. The book provides frameworks for understanding buyer motivations and creating pull rather than push in sales.

Brought to you by Sidebar—Catalyze your career with a Personal Board of Directors | Merge—A single API to add hundreds of integrations into your app | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

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Bob Moesta is the co-creator of the Jobs To Be Done (JTBD) framework, a close collaborator of Clay Christensen, and CEO and founder of The Re-Wired Group. He has helped launch more than 3,500 new products, services, and businesses and built and sold several startups himself. He is also a fellow at the Clayton Christensen Institute and a guest lecturer at the Harvard Business School, MIT Sloan School of Entrepreneurship, and Northwestern University’s Kellogg School of Management. In this episode, we discuss:

• What Snickers and Milky Way can teach us about JTBD

• The various flavors of the JTBD framework

• Best practices for implementing the framework

• Advice on conducting interviews for B2B vs. B2C customers

• Common mistakes people make when implementing JTBD

• When not to use it

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Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-jtbd-bob-moesta

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Where to find Bob Moesta:

• Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/bmoesta

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobmoesta/

• Website: http://www.therewiredgroup.com/

• Podcast: https://pca.st/gg6goo1n

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Bob’s background

(04:04) A simple explanation of the Jobs To Be Done framework

(07:29) Struggling moments and demand

(09:51) Understanding the context behind pain points

(11:14) Reducing friction in the sales process

(14:46) How Autobooks improved their buying process and 4x’ed conversion

(16:52) The six phases of the buying process

(18:30) The JTBD interview process

(21:55) How Bob’s TBI affected his reading/writing and how he is able to write books

(22:02) Why people switch companies

(27:18) Tips for JTBD interviewing

(30:07) Why you should not have a discussion guide

(32:48) The danger of looking at the customer through the product

(33:53) First steps in applying the JTBD framework

(36:25) Signs people are ready for a change

(37:43) Bob’s “layers of language”

(40:15) Examples of companies with a broad adoption of JTBD

(43:59) The different flavors of JTBD and common mistakes to avoid when implementing it

(48:19) Bob’s work with Clay Christensen on JTBD theory

(51:05) When not to use JTBD

(53:40) Common misconceptions about the framework

(55:55) What compelled Bob to spend so much of his life on JTBD

(58:07) Three big takeaways

(59:07) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• Jason Fried on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-fried/

• Des Traynor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/destraynor

• Southern New Hampshire University: https://degrees.snhu.edu/

• Paul LeBlanc on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-j-leblanc-6a17749/

• Demand-Side Sales 101: Stop Selling and Help Your Customers Make Progress: https://www.amazon.com/Demand-Side-Sales-101-Customers-Progress/dp/1544509987

• Autobooks: https://www.autobooks.co/

• Intercom: https://www.intercom.com/

• Zendesk: https://www.zendesk.com/

• HubSpot: https://www.hubspot.com/

• The Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University: https://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/

• Y Combinator: https://www.ycombinator.com/

• Michael Horn on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelbhorn/

• Ethan Bernstein on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanbernstein/

• Never Split the Difference: Negotiating as If Your Life Depended on It: https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-Depended/dp/0062407805

• William Edwards Deming on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

• Basecamp: https://basecamp.com/

• Sriram and Aarthi on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/hot-takes-and-techno-optimism-from-techs-top-power-couple-sriram-and-aarthi/

• Genichi Taguchi: https://www.qualitygurus.com/genichi-taguchi/

• Tony Ulwick on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonyulwick/

• The Clayton Christensen Institute on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/clayton-christensen-institute/

• Shape Up: https://basecamp.com/shapeup

• The End of Average: Unlocking Our Potential by Embracing What Makes Us Different: https://www.amazon.com/End-Average-Unlocking-Potential-Embracing/dp/0062358375

• The Big Bang Theory on TBS: https://www.tbs.com/shows/the-big-bang-theory/watch-now

• Oppenheimer: https://www.oppenheimermovie.com/

• Kyota massage chairs at Costco: https://www.costco.com/massage-chairs-cushions.html?brand=Kyota&refine=%7C%7CBrand_attr-Kyota

• Paul Adams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pauladams/

• Matt Hodges on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattnhodges/

• Andrew Glaser on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/glaserandrew/

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

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