Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career

The ultimate guide to JTBD | Bob Moesta (co-creator of the framework)

Aug 24, 2023

01:09:54

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Bob Moesta, co-creator of the Jobs To Be Done (JTBD) framework, discusses various flavors of the JTBD framework, best practices for implementation, B2B vs. B2C interviews, common mistakes in implementation, and when not to use it. They also explore the misconception that JTBD is solely about pain and gain, emphasizing the importance of context and outcome in understanding behavior and decision-making. Example of Snickers and Milky Way illustrate how similar products compete in different job contexts.

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Quick takeaways

The importance of understanding the full story and context behind individuals' decisions and behaviors

The significance of conducting interviews with customers to gain insights into their struggles and motivations

The role of understanding the underlying causation of why people switch products to better meet customer needs

Deep dives

Misconceptions around jobs to be done

The speaker emphasizes the importance of considering context and outcome rather than just focusing on pain and gain. Understanding the full story behind individuals' decisions and behaviors helps to comprehend seemingly irrational actions. By studying the contextual factors and the conditions that drive specific behaviors, it becomes clear why people make certain choices.

Understanding the Causation of Customer Behavior to Erase Friction to Purchase

02:54

Understanding the Six Phases of Selling

01:29

Starting to Think in Terms of Jobs to Be Done

01:57

Struggling moments, progress, and trade-offs: Key takeaways for innovation

00:52

Introduction

4min

Understanding the Jobs to be Done Framework

4min

Understanding Customers' Struggling Moments and Pain Points

14min

Challenges and Success: Writing and Teaching

10min

Understanding the Jobs to be Done Framework

2min

Getting Started with the Jobs-to-be-Done Framework

14min

Approaches to the Jobs to be Done Framework

19min

Closing Remarks and Contact Information

3min

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Bob Moesta is the co-creator of the Jobs To Be Done (JTBD) framework, a close collaborator of Clay Christensen, and CEO and founder of The Re-Wired Group. He has helped launch more than 3,500 new products, services, and businesses and built and sold several startups himself. He is also a fellow at the Clayton Christensen Institute and a guest lecturer at the Harvard Business School, MIT Sloan School of Entrepreneurship, and Northwestern University’s Kellogg School of Management. In this episode, we discuss:

• What Snickers and Milky Way can teach us about JTBD

• The various flavors of the JTBD framework

• Best practices for implementing the framework

• Advice on conducting interviews for B2B vs. B2C customers

• Common mistakes people make when implementing JTBD

• When not to use it

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Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-jtbd-bob-moesta

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Where to find Bob Moesta:

• Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/bmoesta

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobmoesta/

• Website: http://www.therewiredgroup.com/

• Podcast: https://pca.st/gg6goo1n

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Bob’s background

(04:04) A simple explanation of the Jobs To Be Done framework

(07:29) Struggling moments and demand

(09:51) Understanding the context behind pain points

(11:14) Reducing friction in the sales process

(14:46) How Autobooks improved their buying process and 4x’ed conversion

(16:52) The six phases of the buying process

(18:30) The JTBD interview process

(21:55) How Bob’s TBI affected his reading/writing and how he is able to write books

(22:02) Why people switch companies

(27:18) Tips for JTBD interviewing

(30:07) Why you should not have a discussion guide

(32:48) The danger of looking at the customer through the product

(33:53) First steps in applying the JTBD framework

(36:25) Signs people are ready for a change

(37:43) Bob’s “layers of language”

(40:15) Examples of companies with a broad adoption of JTBD

(43:59) The different flavors of JTBD and common mistakes to avoid when implementing it

(48:19) Bob’s work with Clay Christensen on JTBD theory

(51:05) When not to use JTBD

(53:40) Common misconceptions about the framework

(55:55) What compelled Bob to spend so much of his life on JTBD

(58:07) Three big takeaways

(59:07) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• Jason Fried on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-fried/

• Des Traynor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/destraynor

• Southern New Hampshire University: https://degrees.snhu.edu/

• Paul LeBlanc on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-j-leblanc-6a17749/

• Demand-Side Sales 101: Stop Selling and Help Your Customers Make Progress: https://www.amazon.com/Demand-Side-Sales-101-Customers-Progress/dp/1544509987

• Autobooks: https://www.autobooks.co/

• Intercom: https://www.intercom.com/

• Zendesk: https://www.zendesk.com/

• HubSpot: https://www.hubspot.com/

• The Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University: https://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/

• Y Combinator: https://www.ycombinator.com/

• Michael Horn on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelbhorn/

• Ethan Bernstein on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanbernstein/

• Never Split the Difference: Negotiating as If Your Life Depended on It: https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-Depended/dp/0062407805

• William Edwards Deming on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

• Basecamp: https://basecamp.com/

• Sriram and Aarthi on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/hot-takes-and-techno-optimism-from-techs-top-power-couple-sriram-and-aarthi/

• Genichi Taguchi: https://www.qualitygurus.com/genichi-taguchi/

• Tony Ulwick on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonyulwick/

• The Clayton Christensen Institute on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/clayton-christensen-institute/

• Shape Up: https://basecamp.com/shapeup

• The End of Average: Unlocking Our Potential by Embracing What Makes Us Different: https://www.amazon.com/End-Average-Unlocking-Potential-Embracing/dp/0062358375

• The Big Bang Theory on TBS: https://www.tbs.com/shows/the-big-bang-theory/watch-now

• Oppenheimer: https://www.oppenheimermovie.com/

• Kyota massage chairs at Costco: https://www.costco.com/massage-chairs-cushions.html?brand=Kyota&refine=%7C%7CBrand_attr-Kyota

• Paul Adams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pauladams/

• Matt Hodges on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattnhodges/

• Andrew Glaser on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/glaserandrew/

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

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