Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth

Brendan Foody is the CEO and co-founder of Mercor, the fastest-growing company in history to go from $1M to $500M in revenue (in just 17 months!). At 22, he is also the youngest American unicorn founder ever. Mercor works with 6 of the Magnificent 7 and all top 5 AI labs to help them hire experts to create evaluations and training data that improve their models. In this conversation, Brendan explains why evals have become the critical bottleneck for AI progress, how he discovered this massive opportunity, and what the future of work might look like in an AI-driven economy.What you’ll learn:1. Why evals are becoming the primary bottleneck for AI progress and what this means for AI startups2. How Mercor grew to $500M revenue in 17 months (fastest in history)3. Brendan’s meeting with xAI that changed his company’s trajectory4. Which skills and jobs will remain most valuable as AI continues to advance (hint: jobs with “elastic” demand)5. Why Brendan believes AGI and superintelligence are not happening anytime soon6. The three unique core values that drove Mercor’s success7. How Harvard Lampoon writers are making Claude funnier—Brought to you by:WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUsJira Product Discovery—Atlassian’s new prioritization and roadmapping tool built for product teamsEnterpret—Transform customer feedback into product growth—Transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/experts-writing-ai-evals-brendan-foody—My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/173303790/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation—Where to find Brendan Foody:• X: https://x.com/BrendanFoody• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brendan-foody-2995ab10b/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Brendan Foody and Mercor(05:38) The “era of evals”(09:26) Understanding the AI training landscape(17:10) The future of work and AI(25:54) The evolution of labor markets(29:55) Understanding how AI models are trained(38:58) Building Mercor(53:27) Lessons from past ventures(56:55) The future of AI and model improvement(01:00:41) His personal use of AI and final thoughts—References: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/experts-writing-ai-evals-brendan-foody—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

Ethan Smith, CEO of Graphite and a veteran in SEO, unpacks the new frontier of Answer Engine Optimization (AEO). He reveals that ChatGPT traffic converts six times better than traditional search, presenting an untapped opportunity for startups. Hear his 7-step playbook for ranking in AI-driven results and the power of landing pages, YouTube videos, and authentic Reddit engagement. Smith also warns against spammy tactics and emphasizes the ROI of help-center content. This conversation is packed with strategies for leveraging AI for product visibility!

Ben Horowitz, co-founder of Andreessen Horowitz, shares invaluable insights from his journey in venture capital, management, and leadership. He discusses the perils of 'founder mode' and why running toward fear can be crucial for success. Horowitz reveals key traits of failing CEOs and explores AI's enormous potential in startups. He also reflects on his philanthropic efforts supporting hip-hop artists through the Paid in Full Foundation, celebrating their contributions while emphasizing the lessons learned from music and culture.

Ezinne Udezue, CPO at WP Engine and a veteran in product leadership, joins her husband Oji Udezue, CPO at Calendly, to discuss the rapid evolution of product management in the age of AI. They share insights from their 50 years of combined experience, including the necessity for curiosity and adaptability in PMs. The 'shipyard' framework is unveiled, emphasizing the controlled chaos that fosters innovation. They candidly explore how AI integration demands deeper involvement and collaboration among teams, revealing that PMs are now the bottleneck in rapid development.

Howie Liu, the co-founder and CEO of Airtable, leads a discussion on the company’s radical shift towards AI integration. He explains his innovative team structure that marries 'fast thinking' and 'slow thinking' to enhance productivity. Howie shares his commitment to using AI hourly and emphasizes the need for CEOs to be hands-on in the AI era. He advocates for playful experimentation with AI tools and reveals the vital skills needed for product teams to thrive in this new landscape. Tune in for insights on navigating misinformation and fostering a culture of innovation.

Asha Sharma, CVP of AI Platform at Microsoft, has a rich background as COO at Instacart and VP of Product at Meta. In this discussion, she shares the exciting transition from viewing products as static artifacts to dynamic organisms. Asha predicts that by 2026, AI agents will outnumber human employees, reshaping organizational structures. She reveals Microsoft’s innovative planning framework and discusses the rising prominence of post-training investment. Additionally, Asha touches on the evolving landscape of product management and the shift from GUIs to code-native interfaces.

Garrett Lord, co-founder and CEO of Handshake, shares how his career network evolved into a powerful data-labeling business tapping into a vast network of academic experts. He discusses the crucial role of expert data in training AI models, illustrating how PhDs help make models like GPT-5 smarter. The transformation from generalist to specialist labeling has opened new business opportunities. Garrett also touches on the collaboration with AI labs, and how AI technology enhances productivity, likening it to giving junior employees 'Iron Man suits.'

Eoghan McCabe, founder and CEO of Intercom, shares insights on transforming the company into an AI-first powerhouse. He reveals the challenges of pivoting from a plateauing SaaS model, emphasizing how the launch of ChatGPT spurred innovation. Eoghan discusses the tough decisions that led to a staff reduction but resulted in higher employee satisfaction. He also highlights the new pricing model of just $0.99 per resolved ticket and the cultural shifts necessary to thrive in an AI-driven market, underscoring the importance of adaptability in today's tech landscape.

Brian Balfour, founder of Reforge and former VP of Growth at HubSpot, dives into the transformative potential of ChatGPT as a distribution platform. He reveals a four-step cycle that platforms undergo, explaining why ChatGPT has just entered a crucial phase. Balfour emphasizes the urgent need for companies to integrate with ChatGPT or risk falling behind. He shares insights from past platform shifts, illustrating how early movers like Zynga capitalized on Facebook’s rise, and stresses the importance of adapting quickly in today’s fast-paced market.

Matt LeMay, a prominent product leader and author, draws from his extensive experience to discuss the crucial question that can predict team survival in layoffs. He reveals how adhering strictly to so-called best practices can lead to irrelevance. Listeners will discover strategies to align product efforts with business objectives, navigate challenges without saying 'no,' and the importance of curiosity in team dynamics. He also shares a personal anecdote about a controversial music review that shaped his views on accountability and creativity in product management.