
Playing With Fire
Welcome to Playing With Fire, the podcast for people who are ready to custom-build their love.
We’re talking about non-monogamy–however you design it–as an individuation opportunity.
Want to leave the default and make your life spectacularly you? You’re in the right place.
Latest episodes

Feb 1, 2025 • 43min
189 [Replay] Can my attachment style do non-monogamy?
Explore the fascinating world of attachment theory and its impact on non-monogamous relationships. Discover how rigid labels like anxious or avoidant can limit our understanding of personal dynamics. Emphasize the significance of context and communication in fostering emotional connections. Challenge misconceptions while advocating for a fluid interpretation of attachment styles. Dive into the journey of personal growth and the importance of self-awareness in cultivating healthier relational patterns.

Jan 25, 2025 • 53min
188 [Replay] Justice Jealousy
Some kinds of jealousy can just feel totally overwhelming. They may even make you feel rage. Justice jealousy is definitely one of them.Justice jealousy—a term that was coined by Jessica Fern (one of our favorite authors and recurring PWF guest)—can happen when your partner wasn’t able to provide something for you in the past, and then you witness them providing that same thing to one of their other partners. Ouch!The feelings that come up in these situations can be strong. So we’re here to give you strong frameworks, ideas, and tools that can help you understand, unpack, and work towards finding a resolution. (Spoiler alert, resolution might not look like what you had in mind when justice jealousy is in the picture!)In this episode, we talk about:— Why it’s important to know the difference between jealousy and envy— What underlying issues can fuel strong feelings of justice jealousy— Why it may be more helpful to focus on empathy and understanding instead of strict ideas of fairness— The complexities of relationship repair in situations of justice jealousy— Communication, forgiveness, healing, and the tools that can help you work through justice jealousy and its related issuesResources mentioned in this episode:Polysecure: Attachment, Trauma and Consensual Non-Monogamy by Jessica FernImago Dialogue: Episode 129 of Playing With FireJOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support. Registration is open now at www.TheYearOfOpening.comAre you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.comGet the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for an Ask Me Anything hereRead the transcript of this episode hereMusic: Dance of Felt by Blue Dot Sessions

Jan 18, 2025 • 1h 22min
187 [Replay] Imago Dialogue: Transforming Conflict into Connection
Conflict happens. Especially when differentiation and individuation are parts of your personal and relational journeys. And that’s a good thing!Enter Imago Dialogue, a communication tool created by Dr. Harville Hendrix and Dr. Helen LaKelly Hunt. Not only can it transform your communication, using Imago Dialogue can transform conflict into more connection.Whether you’re practicing Imago Dialogue with a romantic partner, family member, or friend, the core idea behind it is something a lot of us have talked about before: I want to feel understood. I want you to understand me!We walk through the steps of Imago Dialogue, but we also go deeper and talk about how you can set yourself up for success. We talk about practical tools, like emotional regulation techniques, to use before and after your conversation, and we walk through an entire real-life, real-time example of using Imago Dialogue.Learn more about Dr. Harville Hendrix’s and Dr. Helen LaKelly Hunt’s work here: www.HarvilleAndHelen.comJOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support. Registration is open now at www.TheYearOfOpening.comLearn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart wayAre you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.comGet the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for an Ask Me Anything hereMusic: Dance of Felt by Blue Dot Sessions

Jan 11, 2025 • 52min
186 Polyamory in the Second Half of Adulthood with Kathy Labriola
For too long, conversations about polyamory have centered on younger people. But what happens to open relationships as we get older? Kathy Labriola, author of many groundbreaking titles including The Jealousy Workbook, joins us to explain why age doesn’t have to mean the end of polyamory. In fact, non-monogamy can actually become more valuable as we age.It is so important for our community to have access to non-monogamous representation and stories. As someone who has been a polyamorist for 50 years, Kathy is a wealth of knowledge, inspiration, and stories.In this episode, we talk about:— Why polyamory can be an especially resilient model for aging— How having multiple partners can provide emotional and practical support in later years— The unique perspective of poly elders who've been practicing consensual non-monogamy for decades— Why some people discover and embrace polyamory later in life— Common concerns for older folks exploring non-monogamy (like family reactions and healthcare)— The evolution of resources and support for the polyam community— How relationship needs and desires naturally shift with age— Why traditional models of coupling may become less appealing in later years— The wisdom poly elders have gained from decades of experience— Ways that disability and changing abilities impact relationships— The importance of having multiple support systems as we ageResources mentioned in this episode:— Polyamorous Elders: Aging in Open Relationships by Kathy Labriola— Kathy Labriola's website— Kathy’s other books including The Polyamory Breakup Book, Love in Abundance, and The Jealousy WorkbookJOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support. Registration is open now at www.TheYearOfOpening.comLearn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart wayAre you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.comGet the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for an Ask Me Anything hereMusic: Dance of Felt by Blue Dot Sessions

Jan 4, 2025 • 1h 3min
185 Conscious Uncoupling
Navigating the endings of relationships doesn't have to be a disaster. When it comes to consciously uncoupling, it’s about so much more than “breaking up nicely.” We want to help you reimagine what’s possible, honor what was, and create space for what comes next, even when it feels incredibly challenging.In this episode, we talk about:— Why conscious uncoupling requires specific ingredients, including time, willingness to grieve, and self-awareness— The importance of creating rituals to mark relationship transitions and help process grief— How the legal system's adversarial nature can complicate conscious uncoupling efforts— The challenge of letting go of the desire for apologies or accountability from former partners— Why gentleness needs to be balanced with honesty and clear boundaries— The value of making "meta-agreements" about how you'll make future agreements, especially with co-parents— How to handle ambiguous grief when the person is still present in your life— The importance of having the right support system that won't fuel adversarial dynamics— Why creating closure might look different than you initially imagined— The balance between showing grace to yourself and your partner while maintaining healthy boundariesResources mentioned in this episode:— Soul Broken: A Guidebook for Your Journey through Ambiguous Grief— Learn more about Imago DialogueJOIN The Year Of Opening community for a full year of learning & support. Registration is open now at www.TheYearOfOpening.comLearn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart wayAre you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.comGet the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for an Ask Me Anything hereMusic: Dance of Felt by Blue Dot Sessions

Dec 28, 2024 • 33min
184 Q&A Quickie: Why get married?
The discussion dives deep into the complexities of marriage, exploring its legal, social, and spiritual dimensions. It tackles the question of why some opt for marriage, including practical benefits and societal recognition. The speakers emphasize the importance of understanding personal motivations for tying the knot and the role of regular relationship renegotiation. They also address how marriage intersects with non-monogamy and the value of rituals in creating shared meaning. Lastly, the importance of being intentional in partnerships is highlighted.

Dec 21, 2024 • 1h 4min
183 Pelvic and Sexual Health for Every Body with Dr. Ariana Cesare
Just because something is common doesn’t mean it’s normal. You do NOT have to accept pain, discomfort, and limitations when it comes to sex, pregnancy, and childbirth as “just the way things are.”Dr. Ariana Cesare, a pelvic and obstetric physical therapist, is joining us on this episode of Playing With Fire to bust that myth, and many others, when it comes to pain and pleasure.This conversation is for every body, including men, trans people, and people with disabilities (pregnancy affects 100% of the population—we were all born, and some of us will give birth too!).In this episode, we talk about:— Why pelvic floor physical therapy is critically important (and criminally underutilized) during pregnancy and postpartum— The truth about pain during sex - and why it's never something you just have to accept— How to prepare your body for birth (hint: it's like training for any other athletic event!)— The role of pelvic floor muscles in everything from pleasure to incontinence— Why tampons, speculums, and medical exams should not be painful— Game-changing tools like dilators and Ohnuts thats make penetrative sex more comfortable— How to talk to partners about adjustments during sex— Why pelvic health matters for everyone - including men, trans people, and people with disabilities— The importance of addressing both physical and psychological aspects of pelvic painResources mentioned in this episode:— Book a FREE consultation with Dr. Cesare— Follow Dr. Caesare on Instagram @kegels_and_kettlebells— Follow her on TikTok @DrCesare— Slippery Stuff lubricant for sensitive skinJOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support. Registration is open now at www.TheYearOfOpening.comLearn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart wayAre you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.comGet the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for an Ask Me Anything hereMusic: Dance of Felt by Blue Dot Sessions

Dec 14, 2024 • 30min
182 Q&A Quickie: What should I do when my partner wants gender-based rules in non-monogamy?
The hosts tackle the complexities of gender-based rules in non-monogamous relationships, highlighting how these often mask deeper emotional issues. They discuss the roots of jealousy and competition, emphasizing the need to address these feelings rather than applying superficial solutions. The conversation also examines societal programming and its impact on individual comfort with gender identities. Practical steps for transforming rigid rules into authentic agreements foster open communication and emotional growth.

18 snips
Dec 7, 2024 • 35min
181 Q&A Quickie: Privacy vs. Transparency—How do I feel safer?
Navigating privacy and transparency in relationships can feel like walking a tightrope—especially when you and your partners have different comfort levels with information sharing. If you've ever felt frustrated by how much (or how little) your partner shares, you're not alone!The good news? There's no "right" amount of transparency or privacy. What matters is finding agreements that work for you and your partners while maintaining everyone's sense of safety. This episode dives deep into how to handle those tricky conversations with intention and integrity.In this episode, we talk about:— The crucial difference between privacy and secrecy (hint: it's about impact!)— Why safety is at the core of our transparency/privacy needs— How to identify your own comfort levels with information sharing— The role of trust-building in navigating transparency— The nervous system’s safety needs and strategies— Why consistent relationship check-ins are essential for maintaining a healthy flow of information— The importance of having explicit agreements about information sharing— How to create repair plans for when agreements aren't met— Why moral judgments about privacy vs. transparency can block intimacy— Different domains of transparency (emotional, sexual, scheduling, etc.)— The value of examining patterns rather than isolated incidents— How to handle situations where partners have very different needs around disclosure— Why the timing of disclosure matters as much as contentResources mentioned in this episode:— Playing With Fire Episode 149 Relationship Agreements 101— Playing With Fire Episode 123 Weasel Words and Creating More Intimacy in Your Relationships— Playing With Fire Episode 71 Doing what you said you’d do: When accountability works and when it doesn’tJOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support. Registration is open now at www.TheYearOfOpening.comLearn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart wayAre you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.comGet the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for an Ask Me Anything hereMusic: Dance of Felt by Blue Dot Sessions

Nov 30, 2024 • 36min
180 Hyper-Individualism vs Healthy Autonomy: Am I The A**hole?
How do you tell the difference between being selfish and practicing healthy autonomy? You probably won’t be surprised to hear that it’s complicated! The line between hyper-individualism and differentiation isn’t just blurry; it’s usually impossible to judge any action one way or the other without a loooot of context (and maybe even hindsight!).To unpack this question, we have to dig deep into the culture of American exceptionalism, principles of ecology and community, and depth psychology’s lenses of duality and multiplicity.In this episode, we talk about:— The hyper-individualism and enmeshment spectrum, and the “bounce-back” phenomenon— How to answer the “Am I The Asshole” question— How America’s culture of individualism and exceptionalism impacts our relationships— The challenges of balancing individual needs with community responsibilities— Why context is crucial when evaluating "selfish" behavior— How our personal histories shape our tendencies toward individualism or enmeshment— The role of imagination in creating healthier relationship dynamics— Why it's often impossible to judge a single action as selfish or autonomous— How the stories we tell ourselves impact our perceptions of others' behavior— The value of holding multiple perspectives when interpreting situations— Practical strategies for moving from victim mentality to empowered creator— The potential benefits of re-parenting work for those struggling with hyper-individualismResources mentioned in this episode:— Playing With Fire Episode 142 Enmeshment: Are you over-functioning in your relationship?— Playing With Fire Episode 108 with Mollena Williams-Haas— Book mention: "Selfish" by Nakita ThigpenJOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support. Registration is open now at www.TheYearOfOpening.comAre you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.comLearn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart wayGet the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for an Ask Me Anything hereMusic: Dance of Felt by Blue Dot Sessions
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