Daphne E. Jones: Win When They Say You Won't Daphne E. Jones has 30 years of experience in general management and executive level roles at IBM, Johnson & Johnson, Hospira, and General Electric but began her career as a secretary. At GE, she served as Senior Vice President for Future of Work, Senior Vice President & Chief Information Officer for Product Engineering, Imaging, and Ultrasound, and as Senior Executive & Chief Information Officer for Global Services, all of which composed a $13 billion segment of GE Healthcare. She serves on the board of directors for AMN Healthcare, Inc., Barnes Group Inc., and Masonite International Corp. She is the recipient of numerous domestic and international awards and recently started a company that teaches leaders how to prepare to serve on boards. She is the author of Win When They Say You Won't: Break Through Barriers and Keep Leveling Up Your Success*. In this conversation, Daphne invites us to look at ourselves through the lens of a product, just as others will view us. We discuss the three critical elements of how stakeholders view you. Plus, Daphne and I explore the steps you can take to improve how you’re perceived through the different lenses that stakeholders see us through. Key Points Stakeholders are crucial for your success and it’s helpful for you to view yourself in their eyes (and yours) as a product. Three elements are key: performance is doing your job well, image is how people describe you, and exposure is who knows you. When you get radio silence in the context of happenings inside of your organization, that’s an indicator you are underexposed. Caution: you can also be overexposed. Map your stakeholders in the context of their influence in your work and their interest in how it supports their own objectives. Mentors will make suggestions of things you should try. Find the part that will work for you and move on the advice. Resources Mentioned Win When They Say You Won't: Break Through Barriers and Keep Leveling Up Your Success* by Daphne E. Jones To receive a free workbook, send receipt of your book purchase to daphne@daphneejones.com Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Deal with Opponents and Adversaries, with Peter Block (episode 328) What You Gain By Sponsoring People, with Julia Taylor Kennedy (episode 398) How to Support Women of Color, with Minda Harts (episode 506) The Art of Mentoring Well, with Robert Lefkowitz (episode 599) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.

Jennifer Garvey Berger: Unleashing Your Complexity Genius Jennifer believes that leadership is one of the most vital renewable resources in the world. She designs and teaches leadership programs, coaches senior teams, and supports new ways of thinking about strategy and people. In her three highly acclaimed books, Unlocking Leadership Mindtraps, Simple Habits for Complex Times (co-authored with Keith Johnston), and Changing on the Job, she builds on deep theoretical knowledge to offer practical ways to make leaders’ work more meaningful and their lives more fun. She has worked with senior leaders in the private, non-profit, and government sectors around the world with organizations like Novartis, Google, KPMG, Intel, Microsoft, Wikimedia, and the New Zealand Department of Conservation. Jennifer also supports executives one-on-one as a leadership coach. Over the last decade, she has developed the Growth Edge Coaching approach. She supports clients to find their current growing edge and then make choices about how they want to develop. She teaches coaches around the world transformational and developmental coaching approaches in her Growth Edge Coaching certification series. Jennifer speaks at leadership and coaching conferences, and she offers courses for coaches at universities all over the world. She is the co-author with Carolyn Coughlin of Unleash Your Complexity Genius: Growing Your Inner Capacity to Lead*. In this conversation, Jennifer and I discuss the reality that most of us don’t like uncertainty. That makes experimenting with new ideas and actions in complex environments very challenging. We uncover several practices that can help us benefit from experimentation in the midst of complexity and grow from these experiences. Key Points Complicated situations are hard, but have a clear answer (such as how to send humans to the moon). In contract, complex situations are dynamic; yesterday’s answer may not work tomorrow. Most of us really dislike complexity, to the extent that that people with terminal diseases are happier than those who will likely recover. Step-by-step approaches don’t work in very complex situations. Instead, take action through thoughtful experimentation. When experimenting, release your attachment to outcomes. Lean into humility and don’t shy away from endings. Putting end dates on experiments helps us move forward — and sometimes remove what isn’t working. Resources Mentioned Unleash Your Complexity Genius: Growing Your Inner Capacity to Lead* by Jennifer Garvey Berger and Carolyn Coughlin Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes Essentials of Adult Development, with Mindy Danna (episode 273) How to Pivot Quickly, with Steve Blank (episode 476) Help Your Brain Learn, with Lisa Feldman Barrett (episode 513) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.

Wendy Smith: Both/And Thinking Wendy Smith is the Dana J. Johnson Professor of Management and faculty director of the Women’s Leadership Initiative at the Lerner College of Business and Economics, University of Delaware. She earned her PhD in organizational behavior at Harvard Business School, where she began her intensive research on strategic paradoxes—how leaders and senior teams effectively respond to contradictory, yet interdependent demands. She has received the Web of Science Highly Cited Research Award for being among the 1 percent most-cited researchers in her field and received the Decade Award from the Academy of Management Review for the most cited paper in the past 10 years. Her work has been published in such journals as Academy of Management Journal, Administrative Science Quarterly, Harvard Business Review, Organization Science, and Management Science. She has taught at the University of Delaware, Harvard, and Wharton while helping senior leaders and middle managers all over the world address issues of interpersonal dynamics, team performance, organizational change, and innovation. She is the author with Marianne Lewis of Both/And Thinking: Embracing Creative Tensions to Solve Your Toughest Problems. In this episode, Wendy and I discuss the dangers of either/or thinking and how that tendency limits our effectiveness. We explore how to shift to both/and thinking in order to resolve the most challenging problems. Plus, we share key tactics that will help us do this in more practical ways. Key Points Framing a decision as an either/or will often minimize short-term anxiety, but limits creative and innovative long-term possibilities. While easy to see both/and opportunities for others, we’re likely to approach things as either/or when it’s ourselves. An outside perspective from someone who’s not emotionally connected is helpful. Changing the question we are asking is the most powerful to navigate paradoxes. Moving up a level when facing tough decisions can help us see the big picture. Consider shifting from “making a choice” to “choosing” in order to lead us towards better outcomes. Resources Mentioned Both/And Thinking: Embracing Creative Tensions to Solve Your Toughest Problems* by Wendy Smith and Marianne Lewis Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Ask Better Questions, with David Marquet (episode 454) How to Win the Long Game When the Short-Term Seems Bleak, with Dorie Clark (episode 550) The Leadership Struggles We See, with Muriel Wilkins (episode 559) How to Quit Bad Stuff Faster, with Annie Duke (episode 607) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.

Jorge Alzate Jorge Alzate is a senior R&D manager at PepsiCo, an active leader in Toastmasters, and an alum of the Coaching for Leaders Academy. In this conversation, Jorge and I discuss what brought him to the podcast, how he utilized the Academy to help his career move forward, and the critical nature of courage for leadership growth. Key Points One action a day (the blue marbles for Jorge) is the way to create a new habit that can develops into a skill. Accountability is key to move us forward, even if it does not feel comfortable in the moment. Courage is the ability to act in spite of fear — and almost always necessary before confidence. Resources Mentioned Feel the Fear...and Do It Anyway* by Susan Jeffers Winning Conditions: How to Achieve the Professional Success You Deserve by Managing the Details That Matter* by Christine Hofbeck Related Episodes Leadership Through Consistency, with Joseph Getuno (episode 490) How to Build Confidence, with Katy Milkman (episode 533) How to Protect Your Confidence, with Nate Zinsser (episode 573) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.

Patrick Lencioni: The 6 Types of Working Genius Patrick Lencioni is founder and president of The Table Group, a firm dedicated to protecting human dignity in the world of work, personal development, and faith. Pat’s passion for organizations and teams is reflected in his writing, speaking, executive consulting, and most recently his three podcasts, At the Table with Patrick Lencioni, The Working Genius Podcast, and The Simple Reminder. Pat is the author of twelve best-selling books with over seven million copies sold. After twenty years in print, his classic book The Five Dysfunctions of a Team remains a weekly fixture on national best-seller lists. He has been featured in numerous publications, including the Wall Street Journal, Harvard Business Review, USA Today, Inc. magazine, and Chief Executive magazine. He is the author of The 6 Types of Working Genius: A Better Way to Understand Your Gifts, Your Frustrations, and Your Team. Many of us have heard the invitation from Jim Collin’s book Good to Great to get the right people on the bus. But once the right people are on the bus, how to do you find the right seat for each person? On this episode, Pat and I discuss how to utilize the Working Genius model to find the right work for the right team members. Key Points When addressing burnout, the type of work someone does is more significant than the volume of work. Three stages of work are present for almost every team: ideation, activation, and implementation. A cup of coffee in an excellent thermos can stay hot an entire day — that’s true of us when we’re aligned with our working geniuses. Finding the right work for a team member is far easier than finding the right person culturally. Before you look elsewhere, be sure they are in the right seat. To fill gaps in your team’s geniuses, you can hire, borrow, or find people where competence will suffice for now. Resist the temptation to immediately jump to hiring. Resources Mentioned The 6 Types of Working Genius assessment The 6 Types of Working Genius: A Better Way to Understand Your Gifts, Your Frustrations, and Your Team by Patrick Lencioni Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Get the Ideal Team Player, with Patrick Lencioni (episode 301) How to Lead an Offsite, with Tom Henschel (episode 377) The Mindset Leaders Need to Address Burnout, with Christina Maslach (episode 609) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.

Ram Charan: Leading Through Inflation Ram Charan is a bestselling author, teacher, and world-renowned advisor to CEOs and other business leaders of some of the world’s best-known companies. His work is often behind the scenes and focused on highly sensitive and fate-making issues. Fortune magazine published a profile of Ram in which it called him “the most influential consultant alive.” His book Execution, lauded for its practicality, spent more than 150 weeks on the New York Times bestseller list. Ram’s energetic, interactive teaching style has won him several awards, including from GE’s famous Crotonville Institute and Northwestern. Ram was elected a Distinguished Fellow of the National Academy of Human Resources and was named one of the most influential people in corporate governance and the board room by Directorship magazine. He has served on the Blue Ribbon Commission on Corporate Governance and serves or has served on a dozen boards in the U.S., Brazil, China, India, Canada, and Dubai. He is the author with Geri Willigan of Leading Through Inflation: And Recession And Stagflation. In this conversation, Ram and I explore the changing macroeconomic environment and what leaders can do to address it. We discuss the importance of managing cash well and how pricing decisions can be made effectively. Plus, we discuss the critical nature of partnerships throughout the supply chain — and where the opportunities may be in the midst of challenge. Key Points Inflation consumes cash. Cash management is the number one risk to an organization during this time. The way to get ahead of the curve is to be predictive vs. reactive. This may be a time the existing business model needs to change. Inflation creates an illusion of growth. It’s important to adjust for this in all reporting and planning. Work with all sides of the value chain. Help customers deal with rising costs while also working closely with suppliers. Regular communication is essential. Smaller, regular price adjustments are better than less frequent, larger increases. Resist the temptation to offer less for the same price. Resources Mentioned Leading Through Inflation: And Recession And Stagflation* by Ram Charan and Geri Willigan. Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes Improve Your Financial Intelligence, with Joe Knight (episode 244) How to Approach Corporate Budgeting, with Jody Wodrich (episode 355) How to Multiply Your Impact, with Liz Wiseman (episode 554) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.

Christina Maslach: The Burnout Challenge Christina Maslach is the pioneer of research on job burnout, producing the standard assessment tool called the Maslach Burnout Inventory, award-winning articles, and several books, beginning with Burnout: The Cost of Caring, in 1982. Her research achievements over the past five decades have led to multiple awards from the National Academy of Sciences, Western Psychological Association, Society for Personality and Social Psychology, and many others. Christina has received awards for her outstanding teaching, including USA Professor of the Year in 1997. She has been a Professor of Psychology at the University of California, Berkeley since 1971. Christina is now a core researcher at the Healthy Workplaces Center, at Berkeley, and the author along with Michael Leiter of The Burnout Challenge: Managing People's Relationships With Their Jobs*. In this conversation, Christina and I address the reality that burnout is often perceived as an issue with just the individual. We explore how leaders can begin to look at the larger picture: context, culture, and management, in order to address burnout more proactively. We discuss key mindsets that will help and a few tactics that almost every leader can use to get started. Key Points The canary in the coal mine is an indicator of a problem, not the source of it. Our tendency is to focus on the person (the figure) and to miss all the context and environment factors (the ground). Burnout is first and foremost a management issue. “Fixing” the person should not be the focus — instead, get curious about where there is a mismatch. Instead of focusing on what’s wrong with the person, shift to what may be wrong in the relationship between the person and situation. Ensure you have a plan for communicated survey results. If you’d done surveys previously, share those results and also the actions the organization had taken before engaging in more surveys. Resources Mentioned The Burnout Challenge: Managing People's Relationships With Their Jobs* by Christina Maslach and Michael Leiter Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes Gallup Findings on the Changing Nature of Work, with Jim Harter (episode 409) How to Reduce Burnout, with Jennifer Moss (episode 561) How to Compare Yourself to Others, with Mollie West Duffy (episode 582) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.

Annie Duke: Quit Annie Duke is an author, corporate speaker, and consultant in the decision-making space, as well as Special Partner focused on Decision Science at First Round Capital Partners, a seed stage venture fund. Her previous book, Thinking in Bets, is a national bestseller. As a former professional poker player, she has won more than $4 million in tournament poker. During her career, Annie won a World Series of Poker bracelet and is the only woman to have won the World Series of Poker Tournament of Champions and the NBC National Poker Heads-Up Championship. She retired from the game in 2012. Prior to becoming a professional poker player, she was awarded a National Science Foundation Fellowship to study Cognitive Psychology at the University of Pennsylvania. Annie is the co-founder of The Alliance for Decision Education, a non-profit whose mission is to improve lives by empowering students through decision skills education. She is a member of the National Board of After-School All-Stars and the Board of Directors of the Franklin Institute. She also serves on the board of the Renew Democracy Initiative. Annie is the author of Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away*. We’ve all heard the lie that, “Winners never quit and quitters never win.” In reality, one of the best practices to develop is how to recognize more quickly when you should quit something that’s not working. In this conversation, Annie and I discuss how to set kill criteria for yourself and frame goals in more helpful ways to know when quitting is the best answer. Key Points Kenny Rogers was right; professional poker players know that a big part of success is quitting approximately 75% of the time. “Quit while you’re ahead” is often poor advice since we tend to quit too early when good things are happening. On the contrary, we tend to quit too late when we’ve accumulated sunk cost. Determine kill criteria in advance when you’re not as likely to be swayed by the emotions of the moment. The best criteria contain both a state and a date. Find someone who loves you but doesn’t care about your feelings. Trust and permission are essential to open up these kinds of conversations. Effective goals include at least one “unless…” Resources Mentioned Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away* by Annie Duke Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Pivot Quickly, with Steve Blank (episode 476) The Way to Make Better Decisions, with Annie Duke (episode 499) How to Build Confidence, with Katy Milkman (episode 533) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.

Kristin Keffeler: The Myth of the Silver Spoon Kristin Keffeler is a thought leader and consultant at the forefront of a global shift in family wealth advising, known as Wealth 3.0. She guides affluent and enterprising families, the rising generation, and the professionals who support them in embracing the positive power of wealth, aligning their vision with their impact. As the founder of Illumination360, she specializes in human motivation and behavioral change, family dynamics, family governance, rising generation education and development, and intergenerational collaboration. She is the Dean of Positive Psychology for the Purposeful Planning Institute, sits on the Board of Advisors for the Bailey Program for Family Enterprise at the University of Denver, is a faculty member with the Ultra-High Net Worth Institute, a certified trainer with 21/64, a national nonprofit for advancing multigenerational philanthropy, and is the co-founder of Beneficiary Bootcamp. She is the author of The Myth of the Silver Spoon: Navigating Family Wealth & Creating an Impactful Life*. In this conversation, Kristin and I discuss a reality that’s true for almost every leader: whether we have wealth ourselves, almost all of us interact with wealthy people. We explore some of the myths of wealth to understand the psychological challenges that wealth often brings. Plus, we learn from what works (and doesn’t) for wealthy families so that we can have better conversations about wealth in our own families. Key Points While wealth brings resources, it also brings psychological challenges for many people with wealth. More money doesn't equal happiness. Small inheritances can increase happiness, but large ones do not. Many people with wealth find close relationships a bit of a struggle. While our perception may be that the most wealthy are selfish and greedy, more often individuals (especially next generations) tend to under-identify with family wealth. Ground decisions in values that align with a vision of thriving. There’s a huge difference in the next generation having a little bit of ownership in a financial event vs. not having any ownership. Resources Mentioned The Myth of the Silver Spoon: Navigating Family Wealth & Creating an Impactful Life* by Kristin Keffeler Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Reduce Drama With Kids, with Tina Payne Bryson (episode 310) Dumb Things Smart People Do With Money, with Jill Schlesinger (episode 396) The Way to Build Wealth, with Chris Hogan (episode 502) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.

Ian Morgan Cron: The Road Back to You Ian Morgan Cron is a bestselling author, speaker, trained psychotherapist, songwriter, and Episcopal priest, but he may be best known for popularizing the Enneagram. The Enneagram is a personality typing system identifying nine types of people and how they relate to one another and the world. His popular Enneagram book, The Road Back to You* gave fresh language and interest in this assessment. Ian enjoys sharing about the Enneagram with audiences of all sizes because of its power for igniting personal growth, and how it can enrich our personal and professional lives. His newest book The Story of You* helps people go a step further, using Enneagram wisdom to uncover and rewrite our own false narratives so we can live life more fully. In this conversation, Ian and I look at the core aspects of the Enneagram model and how it can help us understand ourselves better so we can also support others more effectively. We highlight the nine Enneagram types and their key traits and distinctions. Then, we discuss how the first steps leaders might take in order to start raising their own self-awareness. Key Points Too often we believe that how we see the world is “normal” instead of recognizing that there are many normal ways to see the world. Personality is like the rooms of our home. We have a favorite room but we still use all the other rooms when its appropriate. The 9 Enneagram Types The Perfectionist - Ethical, dedicated and reliable, they are motivated by a desire to live the right way, improve the world, and avoid fault and blame. The Helper - Warm, caring and giving, they are motivated by a need to be loved and needed, and to avoid acknowledging their own needs. The Performer (or Achiever) - Success-oriented, image-conscious and wired for productivity, they are motivated by a need to be (or appear to be) successful and to avoid failure. The Romantic (or Individualist) - Creative, sensitive and moody, they are motivated by a need to be understood, experience their oversized feelings and avoid being ordinary. The Investigator - Analytical, detached and private, they are motivated by a need to gain knowledge, conserve energy and avoid relying on others. The Loyalist - Committed, practical and witty, they are worst-case-scenario thinkers who are motivated by fear and the need for security. The Enthusiast - Fun, spontaneous and adventurous, they are motivated by a need to be happy, to plan stimulating experiences and to avoid pain. The Challenger - Commanding, intense and confrontational, they are motivated by a need to be strong and avoid feeling weak or vulnerable. The Peacemaker - Pleasant, laid back and accommodating, they are motivated by a need to keep the peace, merge with others and avoid conflict. Resources Mentioned The Road Back to You: An Enneagram Journey to Self-Discovery* by Ian Morgan Cron and Suzanne Stabile The Story of You: An Enneagram Journey to Becoming Your True Self* by Ian Morgan Cron Take the Integrative Enneagram iEQ9 Typology Institute Enneagram courses Related Episodes Enhance Your Self-Awareness, with Daniel Goleman (episode 353) The Way to Be More Self-Aware, with Tasha Eurich (episode 442) Discover Who You Are, with Hortense le Gentil (episode 459) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.