The Copywriter Club Podcast

For the 123rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob change things up a little bit and go “guest-less”. After a short discussion about what’s going on in our own copywriting businesses, we talk about we’re working on and what we’re most excited about—with special attention paid to our in-person event coming up next month. Here’s what we covered in our discussion: •  the pain of juggling two businesses •  getting back into things after taking a step back from client work •  what we might be testing on LinkedIn this year •  taking a Quantum Leap •  the genesis of The Copywriter Club In Real Life •  when it doesn’t make sense to make a Quantum Leap •  the people we’re seeing make Quantum Leaps right now •  why we’re “all in” on The Copywriter Club •  a few tips for making your own Quantum Leap • why you have to join us at TCCIRL this year To listen to this entire episode, click the play button below. You can also add it to your favorite podcast app. And if you’re a reader, you can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Michal Eisikowitz Kirsty Fanton Linda Perry Derek Hambrick Raven Douglas Robert Lucas Justin Blackman Sorcha MacKenzie TCCIRL19 Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership, designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10k a month consistently. Rob:   For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. We do not have an intro for this episode. I guess we're just going to wing it. Kira:   Is that your intro? Rob:   I think that's our intro. Yeah, why not? Hey, everybody. Hey, Kira. It is Episode 123 of The Copywriter Club Podcast, and it's just you and me today. Kira:   Yeah, it's just us, just more quality time together. I love it. Rob:   That's right. Kira:   I just want more time with Rob, all the time. Rob:   Which is hard to do, because we live far away, and we both have separate families. Yeah, we squeeze in what we can. But I have a question for you, Kira. It's been a long time since it was just you and I on a podcast episode, last summer. What has been going on? What's changed in your business over the last few months? Kira:   That's such a big question. A lot. I think in that last episode I was talking about how painful it was at the time, and I think the pain is still kind of there. It's just changed. I've made a lot of improvements to my business, but I'm still juggling two businesses, so I think if you're juggling two businesses and a family, it's just going to be a bit painful. But I am transitioning towards The Copywriter Club and focusing more time and energy on The Copywriter Club. I'm just not fully there yet. My time is still very much split. I probably had the busiest fall ever with my copywriting business, which was probably silly, just taking on a lot, building out a team, doing all the things I kind of told myself I wasn't going to do, and then I just did it all and took on a lot. Now I'm trying to trim that and just focus on building this business and this community that we're both so excited about, but making that transition is very messy for me. That's it. Rob:   One of the things I love about you and your businesses is that you're just a doer. I mean, a lot of times you'll say you're not going to do stuff, and then you just go ahead and do it, but you have this vision of what you want to accomplish and the people that you want to work with, and you go out and you make it happen. I think that's really admirable, even though sometimes it squeezes you for time, and it's hard to accomplish everything sometimes. Kira:   Yeah. Well, that's a very positive way of looking at it, thank you. But no,

Copywriter and book strategist, Bryna Haynes is our guest for the 122nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Bryna helps “change makers” make their change with books that start movements. And she would know. She’s the author of The Art of Inspiration, a best-selling book about writing inspirational books. Here’s a look at we talk about in this interview: •  how she went from hair stylist to freelance copywriter •  how she found out that being a good writer isn’t enough to keep a business afloat •  her writing process and how she finished her book •  how to connect to influencers who can help boost your business •  how to know what ideas to pursue (and how guiding values help) •  what you need before you make a pivot •  all the different kinds of copy she worked on and how finding clarity helped her find a new niche •  what pivoting has looked like in her business and where she’s headed •  how we make quantum leaps in our businesses (and what that really means) •  using your “reticular activating system” to change your behavior •  the importance of “big” dreams and how to achieve them Ready to get this episode in your earbuds? Click the play button below or download it to your favorite podcast app. And, as always, you can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Linda Joy Lisa Tener Bryna’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Club Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you, to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob:   For more information or to sign up go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the club for episode 122 as we chat with author and book strategist Bryna Haynes about writing books that start movements, making a big pivot in your career, what quantum physics has to do with goal achievement, and putting yourself out there. Kira:   Bryna, welcome. Rob:   Hey Bryna. Bryna:   So happy to be here. Hi Kira. Hi Rob. Kira:   Bryna and I are working together currently, and as we've sat down and talked through Bryna's past and what she's working on and events she's planning this spring, I was just like, ‘We have to get you on the show.’ Because everything that you're teaching and talking about and thinking would really help the copywriter community. I'm really excited to dive deeper into what you teach today. Let's start with your story. How did you end up where you're sitting today, and what are you focused on today? Bryna:   Well I'll give you the short version. When I was about 26 I was working as a hairdresser, master stylist, color expert in Providence. I loved that career because it taught me how to talk to people. Prior to that I was really, really shy, and not a very good communicator. I really learned a lot about relationships in that job. But I was also very bored. I felt like it was time to return to my dream of writing as a career. With no prior experience, I don't have an English degree, I didn't have any idea what I was doing, I quit my lucrative salon job and dove into the world of freelance writing. I quickly found that just being a good writer is not enough to keep a writing business afloat. I had to really do a lot of learning in a very short period of time. It was really the best move I could have made, because it was totally sink or swim. I didn't have any way to go back. I didn't have any way to make excuses for not doing the work and learning what I needed to...

Copywriter and entrepreneur Nikki Groom joins Rob and Kira for the 121st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Nikki is a high achiever who isn’t afraid of trying new things (like moving to America to start a business) so we asked her about her life as a copywriter and the new things she’s doing in her business. Here’s a look at what we covered in this fantastic interview: •  how she became an advisor, coach and marketing specialist •  why she moved to America to further her career •  what she does to prove her haters wrong •  what it took to get traction when she first started out on her own •  how she “forced” herself to quit by booking so much work she had to •  when she knew she had to double her rates (and how she did it) •  what she did to book herself out for three months at a time •  the mistake she made with her one-day package •  how Nikki has expanded her business beyond copywriting •  when you know you need to say “no” to an opportunity •  what she did to make a bigger impact (and get paid more) •  how we as copywriters can make a bigger impact with our brands •  why numbers are the wrong thing to focus on as you start to grow •  what she’s done to grow her own influence •  the difference between being a freelancer and a business owner •  what she does to develop great relationships • what the future of copywriting looks like to her Bonus... we asked Nikki a couple of questions about her podcast and what works when potential guests pitch her. These questions aren't included in this podcast, but you can find Nikki's answers in The Copywriter Underground. To hear all of this and more, click the play button below, or download it to your favorite podcast app (we like Overcast). You can also scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Marie Poulin Nikki's website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you, to help you attract more clients, and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob:   For more information, or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Rob:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira:   You're invited to join the club for Episode 121, as we chat with brand strategist, copywriter, and storytelling expert, Nikki Groom, about creating personal brands that create a big impact; how storytelling humanizes our business; what it means to lead with empathy; and how copywriters can increase their income and impact without sacrificing their relationships and lifestyle. Kira:   So, welcome Nikki, it's great to have you here. Nikki: Thank you! I am so excited and happy to be here. Rob:   We're glad to have you. Kira:   We met in your mastermind that we'll talk about. So let's kick this off with just this story about how you ended up as a brand messaging storytelling strategist, creative coach, leadership consultant, all the things. How did you get there? Nikki: Yes. Well first, I think it's worth mentioning that there have been many, many iterations when it comes to the many job titles that I could attach to my work. And that's chiefly because, over the course of several years now, I've just learned so much. And actually it's kind of been this ongoing battle like, am I this? Am I that? And I'm kind of ... even though I do have all of those labels on my website, I am kind of allergic to labels, cause I'm like, ‘Well, it doesn't quite fit in this box. It's like this thing, and a bit of this thing.’

Copywriter and Copy Coach, Amy Posner, returns to chat with Kira and Rob for the 120th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. (Yeah, it’s #120 even though the intro says “special un-numbered episode.”) Despite our numbering flub, this episode is loaded with great advice from an expert copywriter with serious coaching chops. We talked with Amy about all of the following and more: •  how her business has changed from big projects to coaching this year •  the differences between copywriting and copy coaching •  the mindset shifts she’s had to make as her business has changed •  what happens in copy clinic and how it makes copy better •  the value of getting a second set of eyes on a project •  the biggest mistakes Amy sees from the copywriters she coaches •  the problem with too many CTAs she reviews •  what’s changing in sales and landing pages from the desktop to mobile •  how to establish authority with a client and conduct the conversation •  what she does to attract clients to her business •  what happens in The Copy Clinic (everything members do) As usual, it's a good one. And if you've heard Amy talk before (like at TCCIRL last year), you know she always brings her A-game. To get this one in your ear buds, simply download it to your favorite podcast app. Or click the play button below. For a full transcript, scroll down.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copy Clinic Copyhackers Natalie Smithson Val Geisler Kevin Rogers Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob:   For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join a club for a special unnumbered episode (UPDATE: episode #120) as we chat with direct response copywriter and copy coach, Amy Posner about her coaching program The Copy Clinic, how her business has changed since we spoke with her more than 100 episodes ago, how to build authority and what it takes to write great copy today. Kira:   Welcome back, Amy. Amy:  Hey, thanks for having me. Kira:   Yeah. It's great to have you back. It's about time. Why don't we start with what you've been up to since you were last on the show over a year ago? Amy:  It's sort of shocking that it was that long ago. Well, I think that's a lot. My copy business has morphed considerably. I stopped taking on super big projects. I guess the beginning of this year, the beginning of 2018, I still love these really big complex projects that were 20, $30,000, lots of moving parts, a long time to complete them, but I'd usually do a couple of them overlapping. It just got to be too involved for me. It was too complex and it was too long, and I wanted to do things that were a little bit shorter and a little bit more repeatable because all those kinds of things are usually custom one-off projects. I started doing streamlining, what I was doing in terms of client projects and in the meantime what happened last year I ended up coaching The Copy Hackers Mastermind, Copy Hackers Mastermind 3, over the summer when Joanna was away and that morphed into me coming on as the co-coach for her 10X freelancer course and then that morphed into me being the co-coach in The Copy Hackers Mastermind 4 which is, I guess, we're three months into it. It's a six-month program or four months, whatever, that ends at the end of this year. From all of that coaching has come … We're private...

Expert copywriter Clayton Makepeace is our guest for this special episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. If there were a list of the world’s most successful (and highly paid) copywriters, Clayton would have a place near or at the top. He’s the kind of expert worth listening to if you want to succeed as a copywriter (and especially if you want to write financial copy). Here’s what we covered in our discussion: •  how Clayton went from running a folding machine to his first copy assignment •  what he learned working in the film industry that applies to copywriting •  how he went from employee to starting his own copy agency •  the raw truth about why he became a copywriter •  what he did to improve his skills early on (and the mentors he found) •  how he went from unknown to the copywriter everyone wanted to work with •  what he did to succeed that copywriters can model today •  the storytelling secret he learned from an old coin •  where you get the best criticism for your copy (it’s not a copy chief) •  Clayton’s thoughts on how you get a prospect to read past page one •  the process he uses with his team today to create a package •  why you need a stick as well as a carrot in your copy •  why leading with a big benefit might not be the best option •  the two ways to overcome objections •  specifics versus abstractions and why one works better in copy •  when you should present the expert’s bio on a sales page •  the “bars on the beach” reason he starts working at 4 am •  the financial copywriting training he’s working on right now We knew this interview would be great the minute we booked it, but the advice Clayton shared was even better than we expected. To hear it, download it to your favorite podcast app. Or click the play button below. You can also scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Jim Rutz Gary Bencivenga Carline Anglade Cole Parris Lampropolous Dan Rosenthal Agora Paul Martinez The End of America Mike Ward MoneyMap Clayton’s Financial Intensive Jedd Canty Henry Bingaman Terry Weiss Marcella Allison Makepeace Total Package Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10k a month consistently. Rob:   For more information or to sign up, go to the copywriterunderground.com. Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts? Ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work. That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the club for a special unnumbered episode as we chat with copywriter and direct marketing consultant Clayton Makepeace about writing copy in the most competitive niches, his checklists for writing more powerful copy, what he's learned mentoring other copywriters, and how you can learn to write copy for the financial niche. Kira:   Welcome Clayton. Clayton:        Hey, thank you for having me. Kira:   It's great to have you here. It's an honor. You've been on our list. As I mentioned before we recorded, for a long time, so we were lucky to finally get you on the show. To kick this off, let's start with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Clayton:        Okay, well, let's see. I was running a folding machine in 1968 or 9 at a print shop in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and the print shop printed appeal letters for a nonprofit organization. One day this guy came through, his name was Richard Viguerie. He was in his forties, and it was like the second coming of Christ, and we had to clean up the warehouse for this guy. It was like a real VIP.

Copywriter Jonnie Williams joins us for the 119th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira met Jonnie at Copy Chief Live and they hit it off. We continued their conversation from the conference on the podcast and asked Jonnie about her work. Here's a taste of what she shared: •  How she survived a bad situation and launched a solo career •  The first gigs she landed and what she did to get her business off the ground •  The crazy stuff that happened at the job she left—really crazy •  How to deal with a toxic work environment •  How her business has evolved recently and the work she does •  When to jump at a new opportunity and how to know if it’s right •  Her approach to retainers and how she makes it work •  How Jonnie stays creative — the non-copy stuff she does •  How a move to tornado alley has created stress and anxiety for her •  Creating a personal network while living in a small town •  What’s working (and what’s not) when it comes to creating funnels To get this one in your ear holes, click the play button below. You can also download it to your favorite podcast app, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Ry Schwartz The Copywriter Accelerator Copy School JustSellHomes Copy Chief Live The Copywriter Underground Start.me AirStory Justin Blackman Jonnie's website (and bonus for listeners) Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10k a month consistently. Rob:   For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira:   You're invited to join the club for episode 119 as we chat with copywriter Jonnie Williams about how her business has evolved over time, what she's done to uplevel her career, giving up on projects that don't work, and writing conversion oriented content for the personal development space. So, welcome Jonnie, it's great to have you here. Rob:   Hi Jonnie. Kira:   As a copywriter I've worked with on many projects, I told you so many times I think you're so talented and we actually got to hang out last week at Copy Chief Live, which was a lot of fun. Jonnie:          Yeah. Hello Rob and Kira, I am so thrilled to be on the podcast. It's kind of crazy because this is really full circle for me, I started out writing for podcasts and I listened to your podcast for so long and here I am, so it's an honor to be here and Kira, loved being able to hang out with you and this is a lot more comfortable for me now that we've met face to face, and thank you for the kind words. Rob:   If there's any discomfort, it's because we haven't met face to face Jonnie, so I'm …… but just carry on, yeah, just carry on without me, it'll be fun. Jonnie:          I know you Rob, you're, everyone's homie and you have the best gifts ever. Rob:   Thank you. Kira:   He's making me feel uncomfortable, so that's just normal. Rob:   There you go, that would not be unusual. Kira:   Jonnie, let's just start with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Jonnie:          Over the course of, I'd say probably the last eight years, I worked in two extremely toxic environments and more recently I worked at a small family owned business where I experienced and observed some pretty rotten situations and it was stuff that was kind of so horrific that it felt surreal. It was everything from sexual harassment to extreme verbal abuse and even to the violent death of a coworker ...

Copywriter and brand specialist, Sorcha MacKenzie, is our guest for the 118th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We've admired Sorcha for quite awhile now, and have followed along as she's launched her own brand and website. We asked Sorcha about that process and this stuff too: •  her path from acting to branding to copywriting •  what her business looks like today •  what it’s like to work for big brands like Marvel and Disney •  how research impacts the creative process and brand development •  working with chronic pain so that clients still get what they need •  how Sorcha pads her timelines to give her extra time to get work done •  how she conducts the research for a brand audits and branding work •  the pitfalls of doing group research and focus groups •  how she applies the branding process to her own business •  what she’s done to develop her own brand as a branding expert •  her experience starting her own business •  how she came up with the products she offers for her clients •  her biggest struggles as a freelancer Want to hear what it's like to go from working on an Ant Man promotion to the daily grind of freelance life? Then click the play button below. You can also scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sorcha’s website The Copywriter Accelerator Copyhackers The Brand Gap The 22 Immutable Laws of Branding The Copywriter Club In Real Life Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript:   Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you, to help you attract more clients and hit $10K a month consistently. Rob:   For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the club for episode 118 as we chat with copywriter and brand specialist Sorcha MacKenzie about working for big clients like Disney and Marvel, understanding brand strategy, the struggles she's had leaving the agency world for freelance, and why puppies make the best and worst office mates. Kira:   Welcome, Sorcha. Rob:   Hey, Sorcha. Sorcha:   Thank you for having me. I'm thrilled to be here. Kira:   Yeah, we're excited to have you here. We know you well through both The Accelerator and The Think Tank program that you're participating in. But I feel like we're going to get to know you even better today, so let's start with your story and how you got started in copywriting and branding. Sorcha:   Sure, so I'm an accidental copywriter, probably like a lot of people. I was actually trained as an actress until I was about 20 years old. I was going to be a theater actress, and then I kind of bored of the stage world and went to film school. I got an MA in Film Studies. I wrote my dissertation on Grey's Anatomy like all good people do. I ended up interning for Disney afterwards. I did a year's internship and I just never left. I got a really good grounding there. I got to do the creative stuff and learn lots more about the marketing side and all that. So that's really how I got into things, just absolutely stumbled into it. Rob:   Okay, so I've got to know more about the dissertation on Grey's Anatomy. What was the topic? What did you do? What did you write? Sorcha:   So, it was the representations of gender and sexuality within the first season of Grey's Anatomy. So there was lots of like stuff about the gays, the female gays, and all of the kind of representations of different people and all that. It was kind of a groundbreaking show back in the day.

Copywriter Hannah Mang is our guest for the 117th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We both love to travel, so we naturally wanted to talk with Hannah about how she makes her business work while traveling to interesting places around the world. But that’s not all, we also asked Hannah about: •  the accidental path she took from lawyer to copywriter •  what she did to connect with her first clients (and how that led to more) •  how she avoids the mistakes that other copywriters are making •  how she pulls the personality out of her clients •  the structure she uses for About pages and why she sometimes ignores it •  why you have to be interesting before you do anything else •  why you might want to think twice about agitating pain with your copy •  making shifts in your business and how mindset contributes •  Hanna’s tips for journaling (Rob really needed this) •  How she makes work “work” while she’s traveling •  Why speaking more than one language can help with copywriting •  The best places around the world to live and work To listen to this episode, click the play button below, or if you prefer to read, scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: B school A-Fest Mindvalley Kirsty Fanton Hannah on Instagram Hannah on Facebook The Copywriter Underground Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob:   For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira:   You're invited to join the club for Episode 117 as we chat with copywriter Hannah Mang about how she became a copywriter, the importance of creating packages for clients to choose from, her career change from copywriter to business coach and mentor, and how speaking seven-and-a-half languages influences her copy. Welcome, Hannah. Hannah:        Hi, guys. Kira:   Great to have you here. I was telling you before we hit record that I wanted to get you on the show for a while because I watched you from afar and all your travels and stories through Instagram, so it's nice to finally have you here. Let's kick this off with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Hannah:        Oh. Yeah, that's actually quite a funny story. Kira:   That thing. Hannah:        I know, I know. Well, it was kind of random, looking back, but I feel it was really guided. In 2013, I joined B-School and for most people who know what that is, it's Marie Forleo's course on, basically, how to run an online business and I did that without even having a business idea. Back at that time, I was a law student. I was working part-time at a law firm and I just have this urge or feeling to start my own business. I wanted to be location-independent. I wanted to do my own thing, but I had no clue what I had to offer, so I joined B-School completely clueless. Actually, what happened was that I just felt, like, ‘Okay, I need to put myself out there and just offer something.’ I had gone through coach training when I was 19 and so when I did B-School I was about 24 at the time. I figured, ‘Okay, I'm just going to offer, basically, coaching sessions for people who are just starting out and don't know what to do.’ So, it was like we teach what we most need to learn, that type of thing. I had just put out a post in the B-School group in the community on Facebook and I'd gotten a few responses. The first person I ever talked to,

Our guest for the 116th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Nabeel Azeez. Kira and Rob talked with Nabeel about getting put in time out in the Facebook club, cultivating controversy as part of your branding strategy, being a “troll” and a lot more. Here are the specifics: •  how Nabeel became a copywriter and what he does today •  becoming “Dubai’s most expensive” copywriter •  why he was put on a “time out” from The Copywriter Club •  how copywriters can stop selling themselves short •  niching—should you do it or not? •  the “Troll Framework” and how it works •  why you might consider being more controversial and why you might not •  attraction versus repulsion marketing and which works better •  what you need to do as a newer copywriter (it’s not set up a website) •  the three reasons he’s writing a book •  what he’s struggling with most in his business •  selling on the phone (and why more copywriters should do it) • the biggest opportunities for copywriters today Want to hear it? Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Or you can download it to your favorite podcast app.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Ramit Sethi Alpha Muslim The Think Tank Mel Abraham Alaura Weaver Agora DragonEnergy.me Chanti Zak Paige Poutiainen Myrna Begnel Zero to Launch Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob:   For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira:   You're invited to join the club for episode 116 as we chat with copywriter and entrepreneur Nabeel Azeez about his claim to be Dubai's most expensive copywriter, his Troll Framework, investing in himself and his business, what it feels like to get kicked out of The Copywriter Club Facebook group, and what it means to be an alpha Muslim. Welcome, Nabeel. Rob:   Hey, Nabeel. Nabeel:          Hello. What up? What up? What's up, Rob and Kira? This is a long time coming. Second time's a charm. We tried this one time earlier in the year, but I totally sucked, so obviously it wasn't published. Rob:   I think maybe it had more to do with a bad Internet connection to where you are, which isn't always easy to get a connection. Kira:   Yeah. Well, we're glad you're back, anyway. Nabeel:          Yeah. I'm coming at you from a cave in Dubai somewhere. Kira:   All right, Nabeel. Let's kick this off with your story. How did you get into copywriting? Nabeel:          Right. I fell into copywriting by accident. I used to volunteer at this community center, and out of the group I had the best command of written English, so generally it fell to me to write the email blasts and marketing collaterals. At the time, I didn't know that you called this copywriting. Along the way I got exposed, or introduced to Ramit Sethi, and he introduced me to this world of personal development and online business I never knew existed. And then I ended up getting my first paid gig, also by accident. The community center was organizing a conference. And my friend, who was also a volunteer, he had his own marketing agency, and they commissioned him to brand the event and create all of the marketing. Obviously, he needed a writer, so he sub-contracted that out to me. I ended up writing the entire website, all of the marketing collaterals, a bespoke invitation for VIPs, and even a script for a marketing video.

Luke Sullivan, author of Hey Whipple, Squeeze This! is our guest for the 115th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira and Rob were thrilled when Luke agreed to share his advice on the show—Rob is a proud owner of the first edition of Luke’s book purchased 20 years ago and headed for an expanded 6th edition soon—because he comes from the advertising agency world and has a slightly different perspective on copywriting than most of our other guests. We asked Luke about: •  how he got started in the advertising business •  the elements required to create “magic” at an advertising agency •  why you absolutely must work with people who are better than you •  how to surround yourself with geniuses when you work alone •  the power of curiosity and why copywriters need it •  Luke’s favorite campaign—surprisingly it’s radio •  the moment he knew he had made it •  how loving mentors can have an oversized impact on your success •  how you learn to write a decent headline and other skills •  what it takes to get hired at a big ad agency •  the “Alien” moment you need to build into your portfolio •  the things copywriters do wrong and why “idea guy” is dead •  How Luke recommends you come up with your own big ideas •  how to structure your day for maximum creativity •  how to get creative briefs that help you do your best work •  the advice he would give young Luke if he could go back in time As expected Luke dished out some amazing advice that you’re going to want to hear as soon as you can. So click the play button below or scroll down for a full transcript. You can also download it to your favorite podcast app.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Hey Whipple, Squeeze This! Tom McElligott (lots of great ads at this link) Ron Anderson Martin Agency Fallon GSD&M SCAD HeyWhipple.com Goodby DDB Lynda Edward Boches Mullen Thirty Rooms to Hide In Luke on Facebook Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob:   For more information, or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Rob:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, and then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira:   You're invited to join the club for episode 115 as we chat with award-winning copywriter, author and professor of advertising, Luke Sullivan, about his bestselling book, Hey, Whipple, Squeeze This!, what it takes to make great advertising, what copywriters can do to get better creative briefs, and what it takes to get hired by an elite advertising agency. Rob:   Hey, Luke. Luke: Hey, guys. Kira:   Welcome, Luke. Luke: Hello, thanks for having me. Rob:   We are thrilled to have you here because, for a lot of different reasons, but a lot of our guests in the past have focused on freelance copywriting and a lot of direct response copywriting, and you come from a different branch of advertising. Maybe, the more familiar one to most people. But we're thrilled to have you here and really interested in your story. How did you become a copywriter? Luke: Well, let's see. Number one, I'm older than both you guys, probably older than all your listeners put together. But old school is fun because of all kinds of reasons. I got into the business in the year of 1979, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, a long time ago. And back then it was all just, you know, print, outdoor, radio and TV. That was it, 1979, I was lucky enough to be hired by two Minneapolis greats, Tom McElligott, who's a hall of fame copywriter at the One Show,