The Copywriter Club Podcast

Copywriter and Copy Coach, Amy Posner, returns to chat with Kira and Rob for the 120th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. (Yeah, it’s #120 even though the intro says “special un-numbered episode.”) Despite our numbering flub, this episode is loaded with great advice from an expert copywriter with serious coaching chops. We talked with Amy about all of the following and more: •  how her business has changed from big projects to coaching this year •  the differences between copywriting and copy coaching •  the mindset shifts she’s had to make as her business has changed •  what happens in copy clinic and how it makes copy better •  the value of getting a second set of eyes on a project •  the biggest mistakes Amy sees from the copywriters she coaches •  the problem with too many CTAs she reviews •  what’s changing in sales and landing pages from the desktop to mobile •  how to establish authority with a client and conduct the conversation •  what she does to attract clients to her business •  what happens in The Copy Clinic (everything members do) As usual, it's a good one. And if you've heard Amy talk before (like at TCCIRL last year), you know she always brings her A-game. To get this one in your ear buds, simply download it to your favorite podcast app. Or click the play button below. For a full transcript, scroll down.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copy Clinic Copyhackers Natalie Smithson Val Geisler Kevin Rogers Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob:   For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join a club for a special unnumbered episode (UPDATE: episode #120) as we chat with direct response copywriter and copy coach, Amy Posner about her coaching program The Copy Clinic, how her business has changed since we spoke with her more than 100 episodes ago, how to build authority and what it takes to write great copy today. Kira:   Welcome back, Amy. Amy:  Hey, thanks for having me. Kira:   Yeah. It's great to have you back. It's about time. Why don't we start with what you've been up to since you were last on the show over a year ago? Amy:  It's sort of shocking that it was that long ago. Well, I think that's a lot. My copy business has morphed considerably. I stopped taking on super big projects. I guess the beginning of this year, the beginning of 2018, I still love these really big complex projects that were 20, $30,000, lots of moving parts, a long time to complete them, but I'd usually do a couple of them overlapping. It just got to be too involved for me. It was too complex and it was too long, and I wanted to do things that were a little bit shorter and a little bit more repeatable because all those kinds of things are usually custom one-off projects. I started doing streamlining, what I was doing in terms of client projects and in the meantime what happened last year I ended up coaching The Copy Hackers Mastermind, Copy Hackers Mastermind 3, over the summer when Joanna was away and that morphed into me coming on as the co-coach for her 10X freelancer course and then that morphed into me being the co-coach in The Copy Hackers Mastermind 4 which is, I guess, we're three months into it. It's a six-month program or four months, whatever, that ends at the end of this year. From all of that coaching has come … We're private...

Expert copywriter Clayton Makepeace is our guest for this special episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. If there were a list of the world’s most successful (and highly paid) copywriters, Clayton would have a place near or at the top. He’s the kind of expert worth listening to if you want to succeed as a copywriter (and especially if you want to write financial copy). Here’s what we covered in our discussion: •  how Clayton went from running a folding machine to his first copy assignment •  what he learned working in the film industry that applies to copywriting •  how he went from employee to starting his own copy agency •  the raw truth about why he became a copywriter •  what he did to improve his skills early on (and the mentors he found) •  how he went from unknown to the copywriter everyone wanted to work with •  what he did to succeed that copywriters can model today •  the storytelling secret he learned from an old coin •  where you get the best criticism for your copy (it’s not a copy chief) •  Clayton’s thoughts on how you get a prospect to read past page one •  the process he uses with his team today to create a package •  why you need a stick as well as a carrot in your copy •  why leading with a big benefit might not be the best option •  the two ways to overcome objections •  specifics versus abstractions and why one works better in copy •  when you should present the expert’s bio on a sales page •  the “bars on the beach” reason he starts working at 4 am •  the financial copywriting training he’s working on right now We knew this interview would be great the minute we booked it, but the advice Clayton shared was even better than we expected. To hear it, download it to your favorite podcast app. Or click the play button below. You can also scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Jim Rutz Gary Bencivenga Carline Anglade Cole Parris Lampropolous Dan Rosenthal Agora Paul Martinez The End of America Mike Ward MoneyMap Clayton’s Financial Intensive Jedd Canty Henry Bingaman Terry Weiss Marcella Allison Makepeace Total Package Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10k a month consistently. Rob:   For more information or to sign up, go to the copywriterunderground.com. Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts? Ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work. That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the club for a special unnumbered episode as we chat with copywriter and direct marketing consultant Clayton Makepeace about writing copy in the most competitive niches, his checklists for writing more powerful copy, what he's learned mentoring other copywriters, and how you can learn to write copy for the financial niche. Kira:   Welcome Clayton. Clayton:        Hey, thank you for having me. Kira:   It's great to have you here. It's an honor. You've been on our list. As I mentioned before we recorded, for a long time, so we were lucky to finally get you on the show. To kick this off, let's start with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Clayton:        Okay, well, let's see. I was running a folding machine in 1968 or 9 at a print shop in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and the print shop printed appeal letters for a nonprofit organization. One day this guy came through, his name was Richard Viguerie. He was in his forties, and it was like the second coming of Christ, and we had to clean up the warehouse for this guy. It was like a real VIP.

Copywriter Jonnie Williams joins us for the 119th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira met Jonnie at Copy Chief Live and they hit it off. We continued their conversation from the conference on the podcast and asked Jonnie about her work. Here's a taste of what she shared: •  How she survived a bad situation and launched a solo career •  The first gigs she landed and what she did to get her business off the ground •  The crazy stuff that happened at the job she left—really crazy •  How to deal with a toxic work environment •  How her business has evolved recently and the work she does •  When to jump at a new opportunity and how to know if it’s right •  Her approach to retainers and how she makes it work •  How Jonnie stays creative — the non-copy stuff she does •  How a move to tornado alley has created stress and anxiety for her •  Creating a personal network while living in a small town •  What’s working (and what’s not) when it comes to creating funnels To get this one in your ear holes, click the play button below. You can also download it to your favorite podcast app, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Ry Schwartz The Copywriter Accelerator Copy School JustSellHomes Copy Chief Live The Copywriter Underground Start.me AirStory Justin Blackman Jonnie's website (and bonus for listeners) Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10k a month consistently. Rob:   For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira:   You're invited to join the club for episode 119 as we chat with copywriter Jonnie Williams about how her business has evolved over time, what she's done to uplevel her career, giving up on projects that don't work, and writing conversion oriented content for the personal development space. So, welcome Jonnie, it's great to have you here. Rob:   Hi Jonnie. Kira:   As a copywriter I've worked with on many projects, I told you so many times I think you're so talented and we actually got to hang out last week at Copy Chief Live, which was a lot of fun. Jonnie:          Yeah. Hello Rob and Kira, I am so thrilled to be on the podcast. It's kind of crazy because this is really full circle for me, I started out writing for podcasts and I listened to your podcast for so long and here I am, so it's an honor to be here and Kira, loved being able to hang out with you and this is a lot more comfortable for me now that we've met face to face, and thank you for the kind words. Rob:   If there's any discomfort, it's because we haven't met face to face Jonnie, so I'm …… but just carry on, yeah, just carry on without me, it'll be fun. Jonnie:          I know you Rob, you're, everyone's homie and you have the best gifts ever. Rob:   Thank you. Kira:   He's making me feel uncomfortable, so that's just normal. Rob:   There you go, that would not be unusual. Kira:   Jonnie, let's just start with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Jonnie:          Over the course of, I'd say probably the last eight years, I worked in two extremely toxic environments and more recently I worked at a small family owned business where I experienced and observed some pretty rotten situations and it was stuff that was kind of so horrific that it felt surreal. It was everything from sexual harassment to extreme verbal abuse and even to the violent death of a coworker ...

Copywriter and brand specialist, Sorcha MacKenzie, is our guest for the 118th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We've admired Sorcha for quite awhile now, and have followed along as she's launched her own brand and website. We asked Sorcha about that process and this stuff too: •  her path from acting to branding to copywriting •  what her business looks like today •  what it’s like to work for big brands like Marvel and Disney •  how research impacts the creative process and brand development •  working with chronic pain so that clients still get what they need •  how Sorcha pads her timelines to give her extra time to get work done •  how she conducts the research for a brand audits and branding work •  the pitfalls of doing group research and focus groups •  how she applies the branding process to her own business •  what she’s done to develop her own brand as a branding expert •  her experience starting her own business •  how she came up with the products she offers for her clients •  her biggest struggles as a freelancer Want to hear what it's like to go from working on an Ant Man promotion to the daily grind of freelance life? Then click the play button below. You can also scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sorcha’s website The Copywriter Accelerator Copyhackers The Brand Gap The 22 Immutable Laws of Branding The Copywriter Club In Real Life Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript:   Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you, to help you attract more clients and hit $10K a month consistently. Rob:   For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the club for episode 118 as we chat with copywriter and brand specialist Sorcha MacKenzie about working for big clients like Disney and Marvel, understanding brand strategy, the struggles she's had leaving the agency world for freelance, and why puppies make the best and worst office mates. Kira:   Welcome, Sorcha. Rob:   Hey, Sorcha. Sorcha:   Thank you for having me. I'm thrilled to be here. Kira:   Yeah, we're excited to have you here. We know you well through both The Accelerator and The Think Tank program that you're participating in. But I feel like we're going to get to know you even better today, so let's start with your story and how you got started in copywriting and branding. Sorcha:   Sure, so I'm an accidental copywriter, probably like a lot of people. I was actually trained as an actress until I was about 20 years old. I was going to be a theater actress, and then I kind of bored of the stage world and went to film school. I got an MA in Film Studies. I wrote my dissertation on Grey's Anatomy like all good people do. I ended up interning for Disney afterwards. I did a year's internship and I just never left. I got a really good grounding there. I got to do the creative stuff and learn lots more about the marketing side and all that. So that's really how I got into things, just absolutely stumbled into it. Rob:   Okay, so I've got to know more about the dissertation on Grey's Anatomy. What was the topic? What did you do? What did you write? Sorcha:   So, it was the representations of gender and sexuality within the first season of Grey's Anatomy. So there was lots of like stuff about the gays, the female gays, and all of the kind of representations of different people and all that. It was kind of a groundbreaking show back in the day.

Copywriter Hannah Mang is our guest for the 117th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We both love to travel, so we naturally wanted to talk with Hannah about how she makes her business work while traveling to interesting places around the world. But that’s not all, we also asked Hannah about: •  the accidental path she took from lawyer to copywriter •  what she did to connect with her first clients (and how that led to more) •  how she avoids the mistakes that other copywriters are making •  how she pulls the personality out of her clients •  the structure she uses for About pages and why she sometimes ignores it •  why you have to be interesting before you do anything else •  why you might want to think twice about agitating pain with your copy •  making shifts in your business and how mindset contributes •  Hanna’s tips for journaling (Rob really needed this) •  How she makes work “work” while she’s traveling •  Why speaking more than one language can help with copywriting •  The best places around the world to live and work To listen to this episode, click the play button below, or if you prefer to read, scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: B school A-Fest Mindvalley Kirsty Fanton Hannah on Instagram Hannah on Facebook The Copywriter Underground Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob:   For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira:   You're invited to join the club for Episode 117 as we chat with copywriter Hannah Mang about how she became a copywriter, the importance of creating packages for clients to choose from, her career change from copywriter to business coach and mentor, and how speaking seven-and-a-half languages influences her copy. Welcome, Hannah. Hannah:        Hi, guys. Kira:   Great to have you here. I was telling you before we hit record that I wanted to get you on the show for a while because I watched you from afar and all your travels and stories through Instagram, so it's nice to finally have you here. Let's kick this off with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Hannah:        Oh. Yeah, that's actually quite a funny story. Kira:   That thing. Hannah:        I know, I know. Well, it was kind of random, looking back, but I feel it was really guided. In 2013, I joined B-School and for most people who know what that is, it's Marie Forleo's course on, basically, how to run an online business and I did that without even having a business idea. Back at that time, I was a law student. I was working part-time at a law firm and I just have this urge or feeling to start my own business. I wanted to be location-independent. I wanted to do my own thing, but I had no clue what I had to offer, so I joined B-School completely clueless. Actually, what happened was that I just felt, like, ‘Okay, I need to put myself out there and just offer something.’ I had gone through coach training when I was 19 and so when I did B-School I was about 24 at the time. I figured, ‘Okay, I'm just going to offer, basically, coaching sessions for people who are just starting out and don't know what to do.’ So, it was like we teach what we most need to learn, that type of thing. I had just put out a post in the B-School group in the community on Facebook and I'd gotten a few responses. The first person I ever talked to,

Our guest for the 116th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Nabeel Azeez. Kira and Rob talked with Nabeel about getting put in time out in the Facebook club, cultivating controversy as part of your branding strategy, being a “troll” and a lot more. Here are the specifics: •  how Nabeel became a copywriter and what he does today •  becoming “Dubai’s most expensive” copywriter •  why he was put on a “time out” from The Copywriter Club •  how copywriters can stop selling themselves short •  niching—should you do it or not? •  the “Troll Framework” and how it works •  why you might consider being more controversial and why you might not •  attraction versus repulsion marketing and which works better •  what you need to do as a newer copywriter (it’s not set up a website) •  the three reasons he’s writing a book •  what he’s struggling with most in his business •  selling on the phone (and why more copywriters should do it) • the biggest opportunities for copywriters today Want to hear it? Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Or you can download it to your favorite podcast app.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Ramit Sethi Alpha Muslim The Think Tank Mel Abraham Alaura Weaver Agora DragonEnergy.me Chanti Zak Paige Poutiainen Myrna Begnel Zero to Launch Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob:   For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira:   You're invited to join the club for episode 116 as we chat with copywriter and entrepreneur Nabeel Azeez about his claim to be Dubai's most expensive copywriter, his Troll Framework, investing in himself and his business, what it feels like to get kicked out of The Copywriter Club Facebook group, and what it means to be an alpha Muslim. Welcome, Nabeel. Rob:   Hey, Nabeel. Nabeel:          Hello. What up? What up? What's up, Rob and Kira? This is a long time coming. Second time's a charm. We tried this one time earlier in the year, but I totally sucked, so obviously it wasn't published. Rob:   I think maybe it had more to do with a bad Internet connection to where you are, which isn't always easy to get a connection. Kira:   Yeah. Well, we're glad you're back, anyway. Nabeel:          Yeah. I'm coming at you from a cave in Dubai somewhere. Kira:   All right, Nabeel. Let's kick this off with your story. How did you get into copywriting? Nabeel:          Right. I fell into copywriting by accident. I used to volunteer at this community center, and out of the group I had the best command of written English, so generally it fell to me to write the email blasts and marketing collaterals. At the time, I didn't know that you called this copywriting. Along the way I got exposed, or introduced to Ramit Sethi, and he introduced me to this world of personal development and online business I never knew existed. And then I ended up getting my first paid gig, also by accident. The community center was organizing a conference. And my friend, who was also a volunteer, he had his own marketing agency, and they commissioned him to brand the event and create all of the marketing. Obviously, he needed a writer, so he sub-contracted that out to me. I ended up writing the entire website, all of the marketing collaterals, a bespoke invitation for VIPs, and even a script for a marketing video.

Luke Sullivan, author of Hey Whipple, Squeeze This! is our guest for the 115th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira and Rob were thrilled when Luke agreed to share his advice on the show—Rob is a proud owner of the first edition of Luke’s book purchased 20 years ago and headed for an expanded 6th edition soon—because he comes from the advertising agency world and has a slightly different perspective on copywriting than most of our other guests. We asked Luke about: •  how he got started in the advertising business •  the elements required to create “magic” at an advertising agency •  why you absolutely must work with people who are better than you •  how to surround yourself with geniuses when you work alone •  the power of curiosity and why copywriters need it •  Luke’s favorite campaign—surprisingly it’s radio •  the moment he knew he had made it •  how loving mentors can have an oversized impact on your success •  how you learn to write a decent headline and other skills •  what it takes to get hired at a big ad agency •  the “Alien” moment you need to build into your portfolio •  the things copywriters do wrong and why “idea guy” is dead •  How Luke recommends you come up with your own big ideas •  how to structure your day for maximum creativity •  how to get creative briefs that help you do your best work •  the advice he would give young Luke if he could go back in time As expected Luke dished out some amazing advice that you’re going to want to hear as soon as you can. So click the play button below or scroll down for a full transcript. You can also download it to your favorite podcast app.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Hey Whipple, Squeeze This! Tom McElligott (lots of great ads at this link) Ron Anderson Martin Agency Fallon GSD&M SCAD HeyWhipple.com Goodby DDB Lynda Edward Boches Mullen Thirty Rooms to Hide In Luke on Facebook Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob:   For more information, or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Rob:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, and then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira:   You're invited to join the club for episode 115 as we chat with award-winning copywriter, author and professor of advertising, Luke Sullivan, about his bestselling book, Hey, Whipple, Squeeze This!, what it takes to make great advertising, what copywriters can do to get better creative briefs, and what it takes to get hired by an elite advertising agency. Rob:   Hey, Luke. Luke: Hey, guys. Kira:   Welcome, Luke. Luke: Hello, thanks for having me. Rob:   We are thrilled to have you here because, for a lot of different reasons, but a lot of our guests in the past have focused on freelance copywriting and a lot of direct response copywriting, and you come from a different branch of advertising. Maybe, the more familiar one to most people. But we're thrilled to have you here and really interested in your story. How did you become a copywriter? Luke: Well, let's see. Number one, I'm older than both you guys, probably older than all your listeners put together. But old school is fun because of all kinds of reasons. I got into the business in the year of 1979, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, a long time ago. And back then it was all just, you know, print, outdoor, radio and TV. That was it, 1979, I was lucky enough to be hired by two Minneapolis greats, Tom McElligott, who's a hall of fame copywriter at the One Show,

Seth Godin, renowned entrepreneur and marketer, shares invaluable insights in this podcast, discussing topics such as the two kinds of freelancers, the importance of art, the role of fear in our lives, recognizing genius, and the difference between professionals and hacks. Seth also emphasizes the significance of embracing failure, being a good student, and creating tension in copywriting. This episode is packed with advice for making a change in the world.

Attorney and contract expert, Christina Scalera is our guest for the 114th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We’re grateful Christina took some time to explain why we (copywriters outside of the EU) might not need to worry too much about stuff like GDPR and what we really should be worried about instead (if you write sales pages, you’ll want to hear what she says). Here’s what we talked about: •  how and why she started the Contract Shop •  the risks of working with generic legal websites or big law firms •  the #1 thing Christina did to grow her business quickly •  the contracts you absolutely need in your business •  what you need to know and what you can safely ignore about GDPR •  what can happen if you don’t have the right contracts in place •  the benefits (besides legal protection) you get from contracts •  the ins and outs of client privacy •  a few things to know about working with affiliates •  legal risks when it comes to sales pages and sharing results • working with subcontractors—what you need to know We covered a lot of tricky topics and Christina helped us understand where we need to spend time reducing our legal risks—and how to do it. Ready to listen? Click the play button below or download this episode to your podcast app. And if you prefer reading, you can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Contract Shop Profit First Lianna Patch Chanti Zak Ashlyn Carter Shades of Gray Frank Kern Amy Porterfield Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you, to help you attract more clients and hit 10k a month consistently. Rob:   For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, and steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the club for episode 114 as we chat with attorney and founder of The Contract Shop, Christina Scalera, about the importance of contracts, GDPR and other privacy regulations, what we need to know about trademarks, building and growing more than one online business for creatives, and why she collects abstract art. Kira:   Welcome, Christina. Christina:      Hi, guys. Kira:   All right. Great to have you here. Let's kick this off with your story. How did you end up building The Contract Shop? Christina:      Sure, yeah. I got out of law school and I landed my dream job. It was perfect, and it was the job that everybody wanted to get, and I felt so lucky. But unfortunately, a lot of different things were happening at the same time, and I ended up with a couple different health complications and basically had a doctor tell me something had to give. The only thing that I could give was my job. I had to figure out a different way to make a living, and that was where I really stepped into the creative economy that ... Well, not as it exists today, but what we know of it. I decided my first foray into this economy would be as a private yoga teacher, because I had a friend in DC, and she was a former business attorney turned private yoga teacher in DC, and I was living in Atlanta at the time. I was like, ‘Great. I can do that.’ She kind of helped me out with that and everything. But long story short, I didn't make any money. Not a big shocker there. It's hard to make money as a yoga teacher. Not impossible, but difficult. To pay the bills, I kept doing legal work on the side. This yoga studio thing wasn't a total wash. I got a lot of clients that were yoga studios in the area that needed different contracts ...

Creative Director and copywriter, Daniel Harmon is one of the brains behind the popular ads for PooPouri, Purple mattresses, Chatbooks and more. In the 113th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with Daniel about The Harmon Bros. approach to creating advertising that’s calibrated to go viral, demonstrate the product, and sell enough to make a lot of money. Here’s what we covered: •  how growing up on a potato farm led to a career in advertising •  using YouTube to sell a tongue brush, air freshener and mattresses •  how a Huffington Post article gave the Harmon Bros. their name •  the creative process that led to working with Golidlocks •  why they hold “writing retreats” as part of the creative process •  how he (and the HB team) knows when something is truly funny •  how they cast talent for their videos and look for the “comedic X-factor” •  the two levels of hell and how to stay out of both (when it comes to casting) •  what ads need to do at the end of the day—even the funny ones •  how the HB formula works for both humor and serious ads •  what it takes to get hired by an agency like Harmon Brothers •  what it takes to turn “gross” into “gold” •  the course they built to share all of their how-to secrets There’s a ton of great advice, stories and ideas that anyone serious about creating compelling ads (especially those that work in environments like YouTube and Facebook). To hear it all, click the play button below, or download the episode to your favorite podcast app. Or scroll down to read a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Orabrush Devin Supertramp Austin Craig Poopouri Harmon Bros. The Goldilocks Ad Studio C The Abe Lincoln Ad Hey Whipple Squeeze This How to write ads that sell  (The HB Course) Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob:   For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts? Ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habit, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira:   You're invited to join the club for episode 113 as we chat with the Chief Creative Officer at Harmon Brothers, Daniel Harmon, about storytelling and humor, what it takes to create viral videos that also sell products, building an agency, and what we need to do to create amazing work like the Harmon Brothers. Welcome, Daniel. Daniel:           Thank you. Thanks for having me on, guys. Kira:   All right. Well, why don't we start this off with your story, Daniel, about how you ended up as the Creative Director at Harmon Brothers. Daniel:           My story actually goes back to when I was born. No. Not exactly. I was born in Idaho, Burley, Idaho specifically, and grew up working on the potato farm. This seems tangential, but it's not. I learned to do sales face-to-face before I ever got into selling anything through video or through social media. What I mean by that is in order to earn money, my brothers and I, we would grab a truck that my uncle had and we would fill it full of 50-pound boxes of fresh Idaho potatoes and illegally, I'm sure, drive it down across the Utah border and go door-to-door or street side and sell boxes of potatoes. We would sell a 50-pound box for $20. Utah was a really good market because it wasn't Idaho where everyone already has potatoes and because there's a lot of families there. We figured out that we could make more money selling potatoes door-to-door and face-to-face than we could if we worked minimum wage job...