The Copywriter Club Podcast

Former copywriter and Ad Contrarian, Bob Hoffman, is our guest for the 132nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. If you know anything about Bob and his special brand of commentary, you already know that you’re in for a treat. He’s been an outspoken critic of what’s wrong in the advertising world and he had a lot to say about privacy, ageism, and social media. Here’s what we talked about: •  Bob’s path from bad school teacher to contrarian copywriter •  the most important personal quality if you want to be a copywriter •  how to write in a way that attracts interest from your audience •  why he started his own ad agency—more than once! •  the dark side of running an agency and the difference when working alone •  the things about advertising that drive Bob crazy •  why privacy should be your #1 concern as a marketer and consumer •  what it will take to fix the privacy problem •  what ad agencies are doing well right now (spoiler: it’s not much) •  Bob’s complex love-hate relationship with social media •  the limits of brand building with social media •  the ultimate goal of the work that you do •  Bob’s process for selling better ideas to his clients •  the problem of ageism in advertising today—and why it matters We also asked Bob about what he’s focused on today, his book recommendations, and what’s next for him—no surprise, it’s another book—and his reluctance to tell us his predictions for the future.  To hear this one, click the play button below or download it to your favorite podcast app. Or you can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Hoffman Lewis Bad Men by Bob Hoffman 10 Influencers Under 10 The Choice Factory by Richard Shotton Dave Trott Where Did It All Go Wrong? by Eaon Pritchard Eat Your Greens by Weimer Snijders Laughing at Advertising by Bob Hoffman Bob’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10k a month consistently. Rob:   For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the club for Episode 132 as we chat with author, Ad Contrarian and chief aggravation officer, Bob Hoffman, about what's wrong and what's right in advertising today, what it's like to found two successful ad agencies, what copywriters need to know about marketing and copy right now and what it means to be a true contrarian in an industry where group think is rampant. Kira:   Welcome, Bob. Rob:   Hey, Bob. Bob:   Thank you, thank you. It's great to be here. Kira:   Bob, how did you end up as a contrarian copywriter? Bob:   I started as a contrarian person and then it led to me being a contrarian copywriter. Well, I started as a copywriter, I didn't really start as a copywriter. I started as a science teacher, believe it or not. Kira:   Oh, wow! Bob:   I was a science teacher for a couple of years in middle school and then I ran into a friend of mine who I hadn't seen since college, this was about three or four years after college and I asked him what he was doing and he said, ‘I'm a copywriter,’ and I said, ‘What's that?’ and he said, ‘I write ads,’ and he said, ‘And you would be really good at it.’ He said that to me because we had written some stuff together in college. He said, ‘You'd be really good at that,’ and at that time, I was fed up. I was a terrible teacher, and I always wanted to do writing,

Direct response designer, Lori Haller, talks all about design and how copywriters can work more effectively with designers in the 131st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Lori was also one of the speakers at our recent copywriting event in Brooklyn, TCCIRL (videos available soon). Kira and Rob asked Lori about her processes, how she built her design agency, and all of the following: •  how she got started as a designer •  where her first jobs came from—and how she chose direct response as her niche •  how branding design differs from direct response •  her 3-step read-through process before she designs anything •  how copywriters can improve their working relationships with designers •  what separates the best copywriters from the rest •  how she landed the big name clients she works with •  how copywriters can learn basic design principles •  how she makes sure she has the ideas an attitude she needs to do her best work •  her advice to anyone growing a team •  where she sees copywriting going in the future •  what she does to keep learning and growing If you’ve ever wanted to get more out of your relationship with your designer, this is a good one to add to your podcast play list. To hear it, click the play button below. Or if you like reading more than listening, scroll down for a full transcript.   Most of the people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Jim Rutz Gary Bencivenga Doug D’anna David Deutsch Clayton Makepeace Carline Cole Envisioning Information by Edward Tufte Latrice Eiseman Bonus link to an interview of Lori by John Carlton Lori’s list of design references 3 Step Copy Review and Checklist Lori's website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira:   You're invited to join the club for Episode 131 as we chat with direct response Art Director Lori Haller about working with copywriters, the relationship that design and copy share and why they need each other, why she chose direct response as her niche, and how knowing design basics will make you a better copywriter. Welcome, Lori. Rob:   Hey Lori. Lori:   Hey guys. How's it going? Kira:   It's great. Rob:   So good. Kira:   Yeah. Great to have you here, especially to have a designer in the house. Let's kick this off with your story. How did you end up as a designer? Lori:   I knew at an early age that I was in love with visualness, design, fonts. And so I went to training program for a couple years in high school where you had to be picked, it was like some type of tie in with the community college. Then I went to many years of a variety of trainings and college, at different colleges and sites in order to gain access to typography, communications, marketing, design, all that jazz. Then I went right from there into top agencies in Washington, DC. I tried to follow some of the lead art directors of that time and train under their wings for several years. The whole time I wanted my own agency at some point. And finally, about 20, 21 years ago, I decided to leave being a full-time employee and jumping in and starting my own agency. I had already ... I don't know, we might have talked about this Kira, but I'd already done nighttime work and weekend work on the side, all the whole while that I was employed, ramping up for hopefully one day building my client list and being able to go full-time just having my own agency. So luckily, it worked out. Rob:   Yeah, and it has worked out. When you were just starting to do the side projects, where did those projects come from?

We’ve flipped the microphones again and invited copywriter Kirsty Fanton back into the studio to interview us for the 130th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. This is the episode where we answer important questions like... What’s a furfie? What’s a ripsnorter? And has Rob ever cried in a movie? And what disgusting work habits does Kira have? Plus we talk about what the Copywriter Think Tank is like—it’s only open for new members once a year and we’re taking applications right now. Here are a few of the topics we covered: •  our favorite moments from TCCIRL and why this year was even better than last •  the speakers who stood out—the people you definitely want to watch when the videos are ready •  a short description of the “lost” panel discussion •  the new round of The Copywriter Think Tank •  the importance of balancing financial success with a personal life •  Kira’s favorite post from her blog about being tall in New York •  Rob reveals that he has cried in a movie and that he can’t even remember the right breed of dog in the movie •  the thing that Rob did that still bothers Kira •  what Rob and Kira’s childhood hobbies were We think this one is kind of fun. Make sure you stick around for the “lightning round” at the end to really get to know your hosts. It’s easy to listen, just click the play button below, or download the episode to your favorite podcast app. Readers can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Club In Real Life Event Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Kirsty:            What if you could have a yarn with ridgy-didge copywriters and other experts, ask them about their ripsnorters and furphies, their work processes and habit-a-roos, then pitch an idea or two to inspire your own hard yakka. That's what Rob and Kira do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. And if you haven't already guessed, today's episode is coming to you from the land down under, where we drive on the left, celebrate Christmas in the sweaty peak of summer, and wear thongs on our feet. Given everything is upside down and inside out over here, it's only fair that I'm flipping the tables, and getting Robira to spill the beans on all things TCC. We'll get the down low on last months In Real Life event, a sneak peak at the new and improved Copywriter Think Tank, and the inside scoop on Rob's most woo woo moment, and Kira's grossest working from home habit. Hey guys. Kira:   That was the best intro ever. Rob:   I might have to leave. I'm a little weirded out right now. That was English, right? You were speaking English? Kirsty:            I was speaking English, Rob. Kira:   Yeah, but what is a furphie? Kirsty:            A furphie's like an error or a mistake. Kira:   Wow. Okay. Definitely using that one. Rob:   Nice. Kirsty:            It’s a good word. You can drop it in when you're over here next month, Rob. You'll sound like a local. Rob:   Yeah. I can't wait. I'm going to like just memorize this, ripsnorters and furphies. Got it. Ready to go. Kirsty:            You'll fit right in. Well, guys, it's so nice to be chatting with you again so soon. I feel like I'm getting maximum in Robira time this month because I was over with you guys in Brooklyn like what, two weeks ago? For the final- Kira:   Yeah. Kirsty:            ... Think Tank workshop and also for of course TCC IRL version 2.0. So, how are you both after what I imagine has been a huge month at your end? Kira:   How are you, Rob? Rob:   I am great. I am- Kira:   You're always great. Rob:   ... we've had some time to rest and start picking up the pieces. It felt like it was a success. You're right though, it was a hard work. It was tiring.

Copywriter Pete Michaels of Rock and Roll Copy fame is back for a second guest appearance—exactly 100 episodes after his first visit to our studio. A lot has changed in Pete’s business since we last talked, so we asked him about: •  what’s happened since we last talked •  why he moved from London to Berlin •  Pete’s questioning process for making the decision to move •  how moving away from your comfort zone leads to progress •  the role expectations play in what we do (and do well) •  how working with a mentor shines a light on his processes •  how Pete pulls his personality into his work and what that looks like •  the importance of professionalism—why it matters •  why (and how) he’s having more fun these days •  the “real” role a copywriter should play in their clients’ businesses •  his “selling unique” process and what it involves •  the spiritual journey that Pete has been on for the past 2 years • Pete’s take on the future of copywriting Worth a listen? Then click the play button below, or download the episode to your podcast player. Or if you prefer to read, scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Jason Leister Company of One Eric Bakey Pete’s website A book Pete didn't mention but wanted to Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Transcript coming soon...

Copywriter Keli Chevalier was the final speaker at TCCIRL19 and she brought down the house with her chant about booty call brands (get the videos to see what we’re talking about). Now she’s our guest for the 128th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We had hoped to get this out last week before the event, so you could have a taste of what she was going to speak about, but it works as a follow up too. Here’s what we covered: •  how she unknowingly started writing copy while selling weapons for the Army •  what she did as an Army Major (she was a pretty big deal) •  how she developed her writing process—the BOMB method—while under fire in Iraq •  the “Sitcom Principles” that apply to sales pages and kick starter campaigns •  why she likes to work with frameworks and the impact on her business •  her thoughts on leadership and how it applies to copywriting •  what she did to attract her first clients and get traction •  what else she knows beyond copywriting •  how to rock a conference (even before you get there) •  what she’s done to uplevel her business over the past few years •  the people she has on her team—there are a few you might not expect •  the process she stole from the Army to get everyone on the same page •  the thing she’s done that has had the biggest impact on her business • how harsh feedback changed her approach to everything she does We also talked about the imposter complex and her big goal for the coming year (it’s a good one). Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Or if you prefer, download this episode to your favorite podcast app.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Text: "LaunchMe" to 39492 TCCIRL 2020 Videos (link coming soon) Keli’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: On it's way....

Direct response copywriter Pauline Longdon shares her thoughts about showing up in a bigger way in the 127th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. What does she mean by that? It’s not enough any more to just show up. You need to be strategic about how, where, when and with whom you show up. And that’s just one of the many things we discussed with Pauline, Here’s a short list of some of the other topics we covered... •  how she went from army nurse to up-and-coming copywriter •  the impact that depression had on her—and how she dealt with it •  how her experience as a nurse helped her develop the copywriter’s secret weapon •  why she writes “emotional” direct response copy •  why we should forget copy tricks and what to do instead to write more emotionally •  what she did to accelerate her copywriting business •  the worst thing a prospect can say to you (and why it doesn’t matter) •  how she makes time for her own business •  what she’s learned from her time in the world’s most exclusive copy training program •  the must read book that copywriter should read •  not just showing up but showing up strategically •  how she optimizes—not manages—her time to get so much done •  her unique—longer—take on the pomodoro technique •  why Pauline invests in more than one copywriting group at the same time •  what she’s focused on in the coming year Ready to listen? Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. And if you prefer to listen while doing other things, you can download this episode to your favorite podcast app. Be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss another episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Gary Bencivenga Think and Grow Rich Mal Emery Parris Lampropolous How to Win Friends and Influence People Victor Schwab Scientific Advertising Tested Advertising Methods 4thEdition Breakthrough Advertising Titans of Direct Response AWAI Carline Anglade Cole Pauline’s Website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript:

Copywriter Zafira Rajan is our guest for this un-numbered episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Zafira’s business has really taken off over the past year as she’s focused in on a niche and gotten herself in front of the right clients. We talked about that as well as how she has used events to connect with people in person. Here’s what we covered: •  her journey from Nairobi to Vancouver and journalist to copywriter •  the skills she learned as a journalist that make her a better copywriter •  the surprising interview question that often leads to a new idea •  why she doesn’t have a standard list of questions for interviews •  the little things she did to start her business the right way •  the systems she uses to make projects go more smoothly •  the changes she made to her business in the last year—and the impact it’s had •  how niching has *surprise*helped her business grow •  the packages she has created and what they include •  how she uses events to connect with clients •  her tips for doing well on instagram (and who to follow) •  how to think about brand messaging as a copywriter •  a few of the mistakes she’s made over the past year or two •  a few details about her women of color project •  why she’s excited for The Copywriter Club In Real Life Like we say, this is a good one. To hear it, click the play button below, or simply scroll down for a full transcript. If you prefer to listen while you work out or run errands, download it to your favorite podcast app.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank Laura Belgray Zafira's website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club podcast. Rob:  You’re invited to join The Club as we chat with copywriter Zafira Rajan about how her background as a designer has made her a better copywriter, what’s she done to gain traction in her business, building relationships, and her secret for networking, and what she’s doing to support other women of color. Kira:  Welcome, Zafira. Rob:  Hey, Zafira. Zafira:  Hi. Kira:  It’s great to have you here. We met you a year and a half ago in the Accelerator Program, and then you moved into the Think Tank Mastermind Group. And then you and I have worked on several projects now, so I feel like we know you really well, and the more we chat with you about your business and how you’ve grown over the last year or so. Rob and I are both like, “We need to bring you onto the show and share what you’re doing, what you’re learning, because it’s working, so we should share with the other copywriters as well.” So excited that you’re here, and let’s kick this off with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Zafira:  Yeah, well it’s not a long journey. I realized pretty early on that I wanted to have a business of my own. I’m originally from Nairobi, Kenya, and I moved here to Vancouver about nine years ago, when I started university. My path probably started just even by doing an English Literature degree, writing every day, and I really thought at the time I would be going down the path towards journalism. And I was writing for the student paper, I started a platform for college women to share their voices that’s still alive today, and then I started managing a lot of social media accounts during that time and when I graduated I was doing marketing for the university. But I was also penning columns for publications here about global news and word just started getting out that I could write and I could manage social media and I could do a bunch of d...

Okay, this one is more than a little different. We talked with bio-energetics therapist and self mastery coach, Ron Baker for the 126th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Let’s just say this upfront, this interview is way outside our experience as copywriters. But as human beings, maybe there’s something here that we can all learn from. Here’s what we covered with Ron: •  how he become a “bio-energetics therapist” and self mastery coach •  how to be present in the moment and get in touch with your “inner self” •  the place that breath plays in inspiration, intuition and passion •  an exercise or two to get in touch with your inner self •  how breath work and sound has changed Ron’s client’s life •  Ron’s experiences visiting sacred sites around the world •  what is possible for deeper personal potential and consciousness •  the one thing everyone should do when it comes to woo •  how woo applies to online marketing Want to hear it all? Click the play button below or download this episode to your favorite podcast app. Or, if you prefer, you can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Ron’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob:   For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the club for episode 126 as we chat with self-mastery coach, Ron Baker about self-mastery and what we can do to get better at it. The levels of consciousness, creating a better life, and what it all has to do with copywriting. Kira:   Welcome, Ron. Ron:   Thank you for having me here. I have been enjoying your podcast a lot. I was actually just laughing my ass off at the interview that Ry did with the two of you. Kira:   Oh, you listened to that one. Ron:   I love ... Well, I listened to many, but I love the humanity and- Kira:   Oh boy. Ron:   Putting yourselves in the hot seat. I thought it was very courageous. I'm really- Rob:   Let's not do that again, shall we? Kira:   No I think we should do that more often. That was fun. So thanks for jumping in here with us. We were just saying before we started recording that this conversation is a little bit different than our normal copywriting focus conversations but I feel like this would be really helpful for us to branch out and stretch and for other copywriters to stretch, as well. So let's kick it off with your story, Ron. How did you end up as a bio-energetics therapist and self-mastery coach? Ron:   Well, the simple version of that is how did I end up as a nurturer and a guide for people to get to know themselves more fully? Because as I share just a brief version of my story, it will end up with how I went through 20 years of school as well as home and nobody taught me anything about myself, about my inner self, about how to truly trust myself and be fulfilled as a self. So, all of that started out way back when in North Carolina, and I grew up in a home that had some very typical challenges and some difficult challenges, and basically we were five separate people on five separate islands who didn't know how to communicate and nurture. Though everybody was inherently a really good person, nobody had the skills to create connection, intimacy and communication. We ended up with alcoholism and divorce and all kinds of things to navigate.

Conversion copywriter, Lisa Pierson, joins us for the 125th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We’ve known Lisa for a couple of years and have witnessed as she’s built a growing freelance business in a short time—creating demand for her copywriting and her presence on stage to talk about increasing conversions. This was a great conversation that covered: •  how Lisa went from journalism and PR to copywriter •  why she joined a mastermind when she wasn’t sure what a mastermind was •  how she landed her first clients •  how she managed to start a business in the middle of massive life changes •  why putting your self matters (and how it helps) •  when things started to “click” and how Lisa’s business has changed •  how joining Match.com and online dating led to her first speaking gig •  the impact that speaking has had on her business •  what else Lisa’s done to build her authority as a copywriter •  what it takes to be more competitive as a copywriter today •  what she’s done to make her retainer agreements work •  what it means to be a “conversion” copywriter—it’s all about process •  how she started “copy training” for companies This is a good one. You know the drill. To hear it, click the play button below or download the episode to your podcast app. And, as always, you can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Copyhackers Inbound theconversioncopywriter.com Lisa’s Twitter Lisa on YouTube Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript:   Full transcript coming soon...

Launch manager, Shannon McCaffery, is our guest for the 124th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We’ve known Shannon for a little over a year and after talking with her about TCCIRL and several other launches she’s helped manage, we thought she’d be a great guest for the show. Here’s a sample of what we talked about: •  how she went from a corporate job to independent business owner •  the biggest lessons she learned from working with Dan Kennedy •  why she doesn’t ever take phone calls on the weekend •  how she earned the nickname, “the product launch chick” •  the three different ways Shannon helps her clients — an idea you can steal •  how she conducts her initial consulting call so she closes more business •  the 5 questions she asks of every potential clients •  what she does during her $8K strategic planning days •  the 3 Ms—message, market, media—and why you need to get all three right •  knowing which events are the right ones to attend •  why you should always take the VIP option (if there is one) at an event •  what’s working in launches today (and what isn’t) and how copywriters fall short when working on them •  how spirituality has impacted her life and business • what the future of online marketing looks like To hear it all, just click the play button below. Or download the episode to your favorite podcast app. And, if reading is your thing, you can scroll down for a full transcript. After we were done with the recording, we asked Shannon a couple of questions about what copywriters need to do to really stand out in their marketplace... we've shared her answer to that a one or two other copy-related questions in the Podcast Extras in The Copywriter Underground.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: No BS Insider Circle Ryan Deiss Perry Belcher Yanik Silver Jeff Walker No B.S. Time Management Don’t Make Me Think Brenden Burchard Frank Kern Rob Berkley Secret Prayer by Joe Vatale Wishes Fulfilled by Wayne Dyer The Obstacle is The Way by Ryan Holiday SoulfulVisionMarketer Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob:   For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the club for episode 124 as we chat with product launch manager and direct marketer, Shannon McCaffery, about becoming an online marketer, running launches with experts like Jeff Walker and Lisa Sasevich, the role spirituality plays in her life and business, and what's not working in online marketing today. Kira:   Hey, Shannon. Welcome. Rob:   Great to have you here. Shannon:     Hey guys, awesome to be here. Thrilled. This is going to be fun. Kira:   Alright. So, we met you in a Titans master class. We're all members in there with Brian Kurtz, and you and I are actually in an accountability group, so we get to connect on a regular basis, but I don't think I know your entire story, so let's start with how you ended up as an online marketer. Shannon:     Yeah, sure. I actually was in corporate America for a good bit. After that stint, I got to say, I think it was in there 15, 16 years, I don't know, it all rolls together, I lost my job, or they laid me off in a layoff. And basically my mentor came to me, his name is Rob Berkeley, an amazing coach, and he said, ‘Hey, don't go back to corporate America.