TCC Podcast #115: Creating ads that grab you by the face with Luke Sullivan

Luke Sullivan, author of Hey Whipple, Squeeze This! is our guest for the 115th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira and Rob were thrilled when Luke agreed to share his advice on the show—Rob is a proud owner of the first edition of Luke’s book purchased 20 years ago and headed for an expanded 6th edition soon—because he comes from the advertising agency world and has a slightly different perspective on copywriting than most of our other guests. We asked Luke about: •  how he got started in the advertising business •  the elements required to create “magic” at an advertising agency •  why you absolutely must work with people who are better than you •  how to surround yourself with geniuses when you work alone •  the power of curiosity and why copywriters need it •  Luke’s favorite campaign—surprisingly it’s radio •  the moment he knew he had made it •  how loving mentors can have an oversized impact on your success •  how you learn to write a decent headline and other skills •  what it takes to get hired at a big ad agency •  the “Alien” moment you need to build into your portfolio •  the things copywriters do wrong and why “idea guy” is dead •  How Luke recommends you come up with your own big ideas •  how to structure your day for maximum creativity •  how to get creative briefs that help you do your best work •  the advice he would give young Luke if he could go back in time As expected Luke dished out some amazing advice that you’re going to want to hear as soon as you can. So click the play button below or scroll down for a full transcript. You can also download it to your favorite podcast app.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Hey Whipple, Squeeze This! Tom McElligott (lots of great ads at this link) Ron Anderson Martin Agency Fallon GSD&M SCAD HeyWhipple.com Goodby DDB Lynda Edward Boches Mullen Thirty Rooms to Hide In Luke on Facebook Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob:   For more information, or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Rob:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, and then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira:   You're invited to join the club for episode 115 as we chat with award-winning copywriter, author and professor of advertising, Luke Sullivan, about his bestselling book, Hey, Whipple, Squeeze This!, what it takes to make great advertising, what copywriters can do to get better creative briefs, and what it takes to get hired by an elite advertising agency. Rob:   Hey, Luke. Luke: Hey, guys. Kira:   Welcome, Luke. Luke: Hello, thanks for having me. Rob:   We are thrilled to have you here because, for a lot of different reasons, but a lot of our guests in the past have focused on freelance copywriting and a lot of direct response copywriting, and you come from a different branch of advertising. Maybe, the more familiar one to most people. But we're thrilled to have you here and really interested in your story. How did you become a copywriter? Luke: Well, let's see. Number one, I'm older than both you guys, probably older than all your listeners put together. But old school is fun because of all kinds of reasons. I got into the business in the year of 1979, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, a long time ago. And back then it was all just, you know, print, outdoor, radio and TV. That was it, 1979, I was lucky enough to be hired by two Minneapolis greats, Tom McElligott, who's a hall of fame copywriter at the One Show, and the late Ron Anderson who, ask anybody in Minneapolis. He was like the godfather to the entire Minneapolis ad community. He just died several months ago, and everybody up there ... It was a sad day in Minneapolis advertising. They were the first of the regional agencies that rose in the '80s. There wasn't anything outside of New York back in the early '80s. It was just New York and, maybe there's Chicago, but the absolutely killer work was being done probably by, you know, Ally & Gargano in New York and a handful of others. Kelly McCabe, Slobes. These guys woke up the Minneapolis ad community, and soon followed was Portland and Richmond and, so I was lucky to be in the middle and be tutored by these two giants. So, my first job was at a place called, Bozell and Jacobs, which is no longer around. I was there for five years, and then I had the bug, I had to try New York City. I hated it, didn't like it. Was there for one year and then I went to the Martin Agency in Richmond. Worked for Mike Hughes, possibly the best single boss I ever, ever had. He too died about three years ago of lung cancer and, he never smoked. Yeah, it's really sad. Then I came back to Minneapolis for ten years at Fallon, which at the time, was the agency there are elite agencies, that trade the crown of who's the absolutely hottest agency. Back then, Fallon was, and then I decided to try my hand at being an owner and chief creative officer at an agency in Atlanta. Was there for five years. And then I spent my last eight years in the business at a wonderful agency in Austin, Texas, called GSD&M. That was the last time in the business, and I started teaching. In 2011? Yeah, I'd been teaching about eight years now. And I just love it. It's the exactly the right thing for me to be doing. Rob:   As you talk through your career path, you didn't mention all of the awards that you won, and the amazing things that you have done throughout your career. You were at Fallon at a time, like you said, it was kind of a magical time. Where it seemed like every single thing that the agency touched was gold, and the work was awesome. I wonder if you just tell us a little bit about that experience. Maybe the process of creating so much high-quality advertising. Luke: Well, you know what? It's like, I probably have to go into cliché world here to paint the picture because it was a magical time. It's when you have all the right things in the mix, and the magic happens. And, we had an agency in Fallon, where the account people are to be credited with that, I mean, yes they were fantastic A+ creatives. But, there was an expectation up and down the hallways, from the top down to the very bottom, that we were going to do nothing less than, just absolutely brilliant work. And that requires agreement from top to bottom. It has to be absolute alignment on it, and I worked at other agencies where we all wanted that, but there was not complete alignment from top to bottom, and so it never quite into orbit like it did at Fallon. There are other agencies like this today, who they've just got all the right things. They've got the planners, and the strategists, and the great account people, and great creative, and then of course, you end up attracting a certain kind of client. The client is the last thing in the mixture, required to get great work. And there are agencies working today, like, you know, I'll mention Wieden or Goodby, where clients go to them wanting that kind of work. They shouldn't go there if they want to just do their usual stuff. So, pretty soon your agency itself becomes a brand, and clients self-select them. They won't come to you, because they, for one reason or another, because they can see your work and they go, oh, that's not for me. So, it is, it's a huge collection of everything being in absolute harmonic resonance, in order to get that golden age feeling. Kira:   So, to have that brilliance, you've hung out with so many brilliant creatives, what do they all share in common, to have that type of alignment? Luke: That was just nuts, I remember at Fallon days, I have other agencies to talk about. But, starting with Fallon, I used to have this joke. When I went there, after working at the Martin Agency, I was just really scared because, it was just so stinking good. And, I used to have this joke that the office layout, if you looked at the map of the creatives floor. The office layout, I used to say, goes ... it went genius, genius, genius, genius, Luke's office, genius, genius, genius, genius. And my friend, Brad Kilpatrick, who worked there at the time said, ‘No, no, no, Luke,’ he goes, ‘Genius, genius, stairwell, genius, genius, Luke's office, genius, genius, stairwell.’ And that's the way it felt, and when you are working with people better than you, you get better. You get better, and so, you know my students find this at school a little bit. All the kids come to the Savannah College of Art and Design. Most of them are, were, the creative kid in their high school. Like they were the kid who was the best illustrator or did the year book. And so, these creative kids, the top creative kids of their high school, arrive here, maybe seeking an illustration degree or something, and they spend their first week on the dorm floors and they see themselves surrounded by ... I can't illustrate, these kids are killing me. They're great. It's the same thing, you surround yourself with people who are better than you, and are just ... you immerse yourself in it and it rubs off on you. It can't fail to. And so, that's what happens when you get into a good agency, you're going to just, your level is going to rise. Kira:   Yeah, it sounds like, even as a freelancer, I'm just thinking, we need to surround ourselves with other talented freelancers to continue to rise. I think it could be challenging for some freelancers who are working out of their home offices and not in an agency setting. Luke: Well,