TCC Podcast #119: Knowing When to Jump with Jonnie Williams

Copywriter Jonnie Williams joins us for the 119th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira met Jonnie at Copy Chief Live and they hit it off. We continued their conversation from the conference on the podcast and asked Jonnie about her work. Here's a taste of what she shared: •  How she survived a bad situation and launched a solo career •  The first gigs she landed and what she did to get her business off the ground •  The crazy stuff that happened at the job she left—really crazy •  How to deal with a toxic work environment •  How her business has evolved recently and the work she does •  When to jump at a new opportunity and how to know if it’s right •  Her approach to retainers and how she makes it work •  How Jonnie stays creative — the non-copy stuff she does •  How a move to tornado alley has created stress and anxiety for her •  Creating a personal network while living in a small town •  What’s working (and what’s not) when it comes to creating funnels To get this one in your ear holes, click the play button below. You can also download it to your favorite podcast app, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Ry Schwartz The Copywriter Accelerator Copy School JustSellHomes Copy Chief Live The Copywriter Underground Start.me AirStory Justin Blackman Jonnie's website (and bonus for listeners) Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10k a month consistently. Rob:   For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira:   You're invited to join the club for episode 119 as we chat with copywriter Jonnie Williams about how her business has evolved over time, what she's done to uplevel her career, giving up on projects that don't work, and writing conversion oriented content for the personal development space. So, welcome Jonnie, it's great to have you here. Rob:   Hi Jonnie. Kira:   As a copywriter I've worked with on many projects, I told you so many times I think you're so talented and we actually got to hang out last week at Copy Chief Live, which was a lot of fun. Jonnie:          Yeah. Hello Rob and Kira, I am so thrilled to be on the podcast. It's kind of crazy because this is really full circle for me, I started out writing for podcasts and I listened to your podcast for so long and here I am, so it's an honor to be here and Kira, loved being able to hang out with you and this is a lot more comfortable for me now that we've met face to face, and thank you for the kind words. Rob:   If there's any discomfort, it's because we haven't met face to face Jonnie, so I'm …… but just carry on, yeah, just carry on without me, it'll be fun. Jonnie:          I know you Rob, you're, everyone's homie and you have the best gifts ever. Rob:   Thank you. Kira:   He's making me feel uncomfortable, so that's just normal. Rob:   There you go, that would not be unusual. Kira:   Jonnie, let's just start with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Jonnie:          Over the course of, I'd say probably the last eight years, I worked in two extremely toxic environments and more recently I worked at a small family owned business where I experienced and observed some pretty rotten situations and it was stuff that was kind of so horrific that it felt surreal. It was everything from sexual harassment to extreme verbal abuse and even to the violent death of a coworker who was murdered inside the building so there's a lot to unpack there. I spent nearly, it felt like every day filled with this kind of fear and anxiety that my manager would get screamed at or one of my coworkers would storm out with tears and so it was just a lot of stress and that eventually bled into my personal life. I'd watched my physical and a health basically deteriorate and my personal relationships fall apart. I'd always kind of threatened to quit regularly but I’d always find a reason to cop out because I really wasn't confident that I'd find another job that would cough up the 14.50 an hour so I stuck it out. A little under three years and after a miscarriage, a friend had handed me a Tony Robbins DVD and that was a pivotal moment in my life because it evolved into this like full blown personal development journey. I started doing some self work and listening to personal development, podcasts, reading blog posts, and started valuing myself more. So I kind of developed this awareness to this constant negativity around me and it sounded like nails on a chalkboard, I couldn't tolerate being in that building anymore. I became more distanced from my coworkers and it was kind of the norm to find me at a bar after work. One night I was there with my now fiancé and after a glass or two of liquid courage, I was kind of possessed with this sort of strange empowerment that I still can't really explain to this day. That I had this urge to drive the mile down the street, pack up my desk, and never looked back. I went with it and that was hurdle number one, was quitting the job. Hurdle two, was figuring out what I was going to do next because I just impulsively quit my job and did it without a clue of what I was going to do and where it would lead me but I did know two things. I knew that I needed to find a way to pay my bills really quickly and I'd always been told I was a decent writer, a good writer so I thought I'd live the good life by starting a personal development blog and then monetizing it and that was the dream after reading all these income reports from bloggers who made $25,364 and 22 cents a month. I thought that was the only way to monetize my writing other than a book which would take me way too long in my dire situation. I just remember how frustrating it was to go and read a description of a podcast episode when I was going through my journey and there was like a sentence or two and maybe not even that and like I really wanted to know what it was about so that ended up kind of leading me on a path to Upwork and then positioning myself as a show notes writer, podcast show notes writer. It didn't even take me two days to hear back from my first two clients who were just launching a brand new podcasts and both of them were in the online marketing space and one was more content and strategy and the other one was more transformational life and business. I learned their brand voice very well and I learned about online marketing strategy from their podcasts so they both started hiring me for more copy based projects. I remember getting hired directly from my personal landing page from one of them and like I think I teared up because he offered me like $150. That led into more podcast clients that your job's more referrals and eventually transitioned out of show notes completely to pursue copywriting fulltime. Rob:   There is a lot to unpack here for sure. First of all, I want to know what was the Tony Robbins CD that started the whole transformation, which one was it? Jonnie:          Oh gosh, I can't tell you the name of it because unfortunately, and I hope Tony is not listening. Kira:   He doesn't listen to our show. Rob:   He's one of our biggest listeners actually. Jonnie:          It was burned, it just said Tony Robbins on it and a black sharpie. Rob:   Okay, fair enough. Let's jump forward then to those first writing gigs, how did you position yourself? Like, what were you doing on Upwork, what did you say, what was the offer, for people who are just trying to get started and think, ‘Hey, maybe that's a viable path for me or to offer something similar’? Walk us through. What were the things that you did to land two jobs that quickly? Jonnie:          I wish I could remember all the granular details, but I just remember there wasn't a lot of people that were offering what I was offering and it was ... I very much kind of listed out that I was in personal development and platforming myself as someone who is really familiar with podcasts, which I was, but I think it was such a rarity for people to come across just someone who specialized. I found my own little niche, you know, or niche as you guys like to call it niche or niche. I found my own little cove and it worked out really, really well for me and if we're talking price, I had no idea what I was doing at the time. I had no idea how to price anything or what my time was worth, how good I really was but eventually I negotiated what I thought was fair at the time and we just kind of went from there. Kira:   I want to back up and ask about your story and I can't help but ask about the murder, which, if it's too sensitive to share, can you just share a little bit more details about the toxic environment and even anything related to that, how did this all happen? Because it sounds so out there and hard to believe but I know this was your reality for I think three years? Jonnie:          It was surreal and sometimes when I reflect on it, it's surreal still and to kind of give you the nutshell version of it, I pulled up into the parking lot like it was any other Monday morning, it was snowing outside it was in February, and seeing like CSI events outside, like they literally said CSI, I was like oh that's a thing, I guess. I thought it was just to show this whole time but yeah,