TCC Podcast #117: Why You Have to be Interesting with Hannah Mang

Copywriter Hannah Mang is our guest for the 117th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We both love to travel, so we naturally wanted to talk with Hannah about how she makes her business work while traveling to interesting places around the world. But that’s not all, we also asked Hannah about: •  the accidental path she took from lawyer to copywriter •  what she did to connect with her first clients (and how that led to more) •  how she avoids the mistakes that other copywriters are making •  how she pulls the personality out of her clients •  the structure she uses for About pages and why she sometimes ignores it •  why you have to be interesting before you do anything else •  why you might want to think twice about agitating pain with your copy •  making shifts in your business and how mindset contributes •  Hanna’s tips for journaling (Rob really needed this) •  How she makes work “work” while she’s traveling •  Why speaking more than one language can help with copywriting •  The best places around the world to live and work To listen to this episode, click the play button below, or if you prefer to read, scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: B school A-Fest Mindvalley Kirsty Fanton Hannah on Instagram Hannah on Facebook The Copywriter Underground Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob:   For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira:   You're invited to join the club for Episode 117 as we chat with copywriter Hannah Mang about how she became a copywriter, the importance of creating packages for clients to choose from, her career change from copywriter to business coach and mentor, and how speaking seven-and-a-half languages influences her copy. Welcome, Hannah. Hannah:        Hi, guys. Kira:   Great to have you here. I was telling you before we hit record that I wanted to get you on the show for a while because I watched you from afar and all your travels and stories through Instagram, so it's nice to finally have you here. Let's kick this off with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Hannah:        Oh. Yeah, that's actually quite a funny story. Kira:   That thing. Hannah:        I know, I know. Well, it was kind of random, looking back, but I feel it was really guided. In 2013, I joined B-School and for most people who know what that is, it's Marie Forleo's course on, basically, how to run an online business and I did that without even having a business idea. Back at that time, I was a law student. I was working part-time at a law firm and I just have this urge or feeling to start my own business. I wanted to be location-independent. I wanted to do my own thing, but I had no clue what I had to offer, so I joined B-School completely clueless. Actually, what happened was that I just felt, like, ‘Okay, I need to put myself out there and just offer something.’ I had gone through coach training when I was 19 and so when I did B-School I was about 24 at the time. I figured, ‘Okay, I'm just going to offer, basically, coaching sessions for people who are just starting out and don't know what to do.’ So, it was like we teach what we most need to learn, that type of thing. I had just put out a post in the B-School group in the community on Facebook and I'd gotten a few responses. The first person I ever talked to, before jumping on the call with her, I, obviously, looked at her website, and I just started noticing all these things, tweaks you could make and how she could improve her sign-up rates if she just changed a couple words around and all of that. I ended up writing all of this down and when I jumped on the call with her, it was, like, ‘Hi. I noticed all these things and I know you never asked me to do that, but are you interested in what I have to say about your website?’ Luckily, she was, so I gave her all that input. She came back to me two weeks later, ‘My sign-up rate has tripled just from implementing a few small tweaks according to what you told me,’ and, you know, take a hint. What was most important for me, though, was that I felt like, well, it came to me very easily. It was fun, it kind of felt natural. At that time, I didn't even know what copywriting was. I didn't even know that was a thing. But I started doing that with more clients for free and, eventually, I realized, ‘Okay, I'm on to something.’ I didn't even have a website, I didn't have training or anything. I just kind of went with the flow. Long story short, just from that, I started, through word of mouth, attracting a lot of clients. Then this lady came to me, an Australian woman, and she was, like, ‘Hey, can you write my website copy?’ I was so amazed because, like I said, I didn't even have a website. I had never written anything for anyone, but, of course, I said yes and that was my first big paying client. I did it for like a thousand bucks or something. That is the short version of how I ended up being a copywriter. Rob:   Hannah, you talk about how word of mouth really got you started. Could we talk a little bit more about that? Because there are so many copywriters out there who get that first client and then they struggle to find the second. Or they see a little burst of activity at the very beginning of their business, but once they get through all of their network, suddenly they really struggle to find clients. So, were there things that you were doing to help spread the word of mouth, or are there things that copywriters can do, as they get started, to make that kind of buzz happen? Hannah:        Absolutely. Yeah, that's a great question. Looking back now, it's been five years, more than five years since that moment. I guess, in a way, I was very blessed and lucky because I have been fully booked, basically, throughout my online business career as a copywriter. But I guess, obviously, one thing to do was just deliver great work. I also just genuinely care about my clients. I always put a lot of time and effort into getting to know them and building a relationship. I think that has just really helped me. Also, I did go to some networking events, or just events. For example, I went to A-Fest. I don't know if you guys know that. It's an event/party type of thing hosted by Mindvalley so just hanging out there, meeting amazing people. I didn't necessarily pitch myself. It's just really not my style and I also was never really looking for clients like that. But just through genuinely building relationships and being curious, being interested in people and getting to know them, it has helped a lot. Eventually, I ended up working for Mindvalley for a while. It was a huge client and that was amazing and then there you have a big network. It was like a ripple effect. I don't know if that's a tip at all. It's not like I did anything in particular. I actually didn't ask people to recommend me or anything like that. It sort of just happened organically, I would say, but, yeah, I think delivering great work is definitely a good one and just following up with people. It's not like, ‘Okay, I sent off my sales page and we're done.’ You can just be a friendly, nice human being and checking with people, see how it's going, if there's anything else that you can help them with, even if they don't need anything else. Does that make sense? Kira:   Yeah. No, I'm wondering, too. You mention this is about five years ago when you really jumped into the space. A lot has changed in five years, too, so what are some mistakes that you see copywriters making today, especially the copywriters you're coaching or mentoring or you just observed online? What mistakes are they making that are holding them back from building that momentum that you are able to build to be fully booked? Hannah:        I don't even know if I know that many copywriters. But, yes, I've been mentoring a lot of people and from what I feel is that a lot of people, especially when they're new, they don't really trust them self so much. They don't really trust their own intuition, their own style, so it's like you end up looking outside, and you end up looking at all these other people. Of course, naturally, you want to learn from others, and it's also totally normal to be inspired by someone you admire in the copywriting field and this and that. But I think it's really important that, if you want to stand out and if you want to get noticed, to really trust yourself and stay true to who you are. That is definitely something that has served me well because, of course, there were also people that I admired, especially from the start. I have probably been publicly compared to others, and I've gotten some nasty comments as well, that I'm too close to this person or whatever. But at the end of the day, I always infuse a lot of my personality, at least into my own blog and all the content that I put out there for myself, and that just made me stand out. People resonate with that. But it does take courage to do that. I'm not saying that you have to be loudest or that you have to have a crazy personality and curse a lot. It doesn't matter. I think it's like you just need to be in alignment with who you are and that will automatically help you stand out and attract amazing people. But when you're always holding back a little bit,