The Copywriter Club Podcast

Copywriter Per Andreasen interviews Rob and Kira for the 190th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Per kicks off the interview with the Intro in Danish... which will probably confuse a few listeners expecting to hear our regular intro... then we talked about what's up with us and how the podcast will be changing in the near future. Here's most of what we talked about: •  what the intro sounds like in Danish… thanks to Per Andreasen •  how to thrive in a crisis—Rob’s advice for surviving a recession •  what has happened to our business since the virus became a “thing” •  the Copywriter Roundtable… and why we don’t promote it •  how The Copywriter Club evolved into what it is today •  how The Copywriter Club is a bit like a cult •  how we deal with imposter complex ourselves •  when the biggest leaps in our business have happened •  why we haven’t offered certifications for the training we provide •  our biggest program failure and what we did instead •  the changes we are making to the podcast in the future •  where we think copywriting is going in the future •  why some copywriters are busier than ever during the COVID crisis •  good example of advertising in response to the economic crisis •  what we are doing in our own businesses this year •  when to expect the very first Copywriter Club event in Europe •  a bit about Per’s business too If you're interested in what's going on in our businesses, and what's next for The Copywriter Club, you'll want to check out this episode. Scroll down to listen or for a full transcript. Or better yet, download it to your podcast player now.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank The tattoo video Gin Walker Elaine Wellman Brian Kurtz  The intro/outro competition details FB post Kim Krause Schwalm Per’s Website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Per Andreasen:   [Speaking in Danish] Hvad nu hvis du kunne hænge ud med seriøst talentfulde copywritere og andre eksperter. Spørge dem om deres succeser og fiaskoer, deres processer og vaner for så at stjæle en idé eller to som kan inspirere dit eget arbejde? Det er hvad Rob og Kira gør hver eneste uge på…The Copywriter Club Podcast. Yes, this is still The Copywriter Club Podcast. You're invited to join them for Episode 190 as former journalist and now the world's strongest copywriter, Per Andreasen, lovingly grills them on this and that. Rob:   Our Danish audience is going to go through the roof with this episode. So, for this episode of the podcast, we've invited our friend and someone who has participated in The Copywriter Accelerator, The Copywriter Think Tank, has been to all three TCC IRLs, and is the only copywriter that we know in Denmark, I think, to interview us for the podcast and that is, Per Andreasen, the strongest copywriter in the world. Kira:   Yeah, 190, that's pretty crazy. Per Andreasen:   It's amazing. So, the last time I saw you two guys was at your amazing real life event in San Diego, and you've already gone through all your takeaways before, so I want to talk about the crisis that made everything about the event feel even more special than your previous events. Especially, Rob, your talk was about how to thrive in a crisis, can you repeat some of that advice and how that has stayed true? Rob:   I can definitely repeat a lot of the advice, it was kind of... I guess it was a timely talk. I wasn't assuming that it was going to be quite as timely as it was, as I was preparing it. I kind of thought we might be due for a recession in the next year or two, maybe in six months but wasn't thinking that it was going to come together the way that it quite did. And so, I just gave some tips for how to deal with working in a recession. And you can get all of those tips in the videos from the event that we have made available.

In the 189th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with A-lister Carline Anglade Cole on how supporting her firefighter husband led to a career as a copywriter, what she learned from her mentor Clayton Makepeace, how she connects with her prospects and more. Here's a bit of what we covered... •  her ballsy approach to scoring a 2-hour interview for a marketing position •  how she learned the craft of copywriting without courses or books •  how doing a great job on a promotion got her fired (and 6 months of severance) •  the WWCD question that helped her write a promotion that got a 5% response •  what she’s done to go deeper with copy than most copywriters •  her life as a 50 year old white man •  what she learned from working with Clayton Makepeace •  her approach to testing a lot emotions so the market comes to her •  how her income went up every time Clayton criticized her writing •  what it takes to write kick-butt copy that resonates with her audience •  the “mom test” she uses to make sure she believes in the product •  how she reworks her copy to make sure it’s as strong as possible •  her kids—three of four of whom have worked as copywriters This episode should not be missed. To hear it, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Or add it to your podcast player now.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Clayton Makepeace Gary Bencivenga Kim Schwalm Marcella Allison Carline's Website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira:   This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. The place to find more than 20 templates, dozens of presentations on topics like copywriting, and marketing, and mindset. A community of successful writers, who share ideas and leads, and The Copywriter Club newsletter, which is mailed directly to your home every month. Learn more at thecopywriterunderground.com. Rob:   If you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their success and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work, that's what Kira and I do every week, at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira:   You're invited to join the club for episode 189, as we chat with A list health copywriter, Carline Anglade-Cole, about working with and learning from her mentor, Clayton Makepeace. Her life as a 50 year-old white man, hiring her kids to write copy for her, connecting emotionally with the buyers she writes for and what it takes to write kick butt copy. Welcome, Carline. Rob:   Hey, Carline. Carline:    Hey guys, how are you? Rob:   We're doing good. Carline:    I liked the intro, Kira. Kira:   That was all Rob, Rob wrote that one. Carline:    Oh, Rob, very nice, very nice. Kira:   So we're excited to have you back. We tried to record this, I don't know, was it a year ago, more than a year ago now and I had major tech issues and so we didn't know if this interview was ever going to happen, and I'm so glad that it will. So thanks, Carline for coming back. Carline:    Thanks for inviting me. Kira:   And let's kick it off with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Carline:    Definitely, it was not a life plan. I had no idea what copywriting was. I had gone to school and got my degree in communications and journalism, so I always knew I wanted to be in the writing field somehow, but didn't quite know how. I just sort of stumbled across the whole copywriting thing when I got a job working at Phillips Publishing. At the time, I had a two and a half year-old and a one-year-old and I was just looking for a job that would complement my husband's schedule. He was a firefighter and he worked shift work. So we had these kids and we wanted to be home with our kids ourselves. So I had to find some kind of a job that would allow me ...

In the 188th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with Gin Walker on how her experience as a stage actor influences her writing process, her REACH framework, the misunderstanding that turned her into a copywriter, and what she does to manage the competing interests in her life.  Here’s the outline of what we covered during this interview: •  the airplane discussion that “mistakenly” turned her into a copywriter •  the podcast that helped her discover what copywriting is •  the difference between copy editing and copywriting •  how she landed her first few clients after she made her career switch •  what she did to build on her initial success and grow her business •  how attending TCCIRL changed her business •  how being an actor has helped Gin as a copywriter •  how she uses her R.E.A.C.H. framework as she works with clients •  what she does to manage all the competing interests in her life •  how her business has changed over the past year •  what her business looks like today •  the mindset issue she struggles with and how she deals with it •  her experience as the closing speaker at TCCIRL Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank The Copywriter Club In Real Life Joanna Wiebe Ry Schwartz Joel Klettke Hillary Weiss Tarzan Kay Rob Braddock Gin’s Website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob:   This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground, the place to be if you want to master marketing mindset and copywriting in your business and hit 10K a month without losing your mind. Learn more at TheCopywriterUnderground.com. Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the club for episode 188 as we chat with copywriter and TCCIRL closing speaker Gin Walker about her journey to copywriting, the advantages that she gets from being a stage actor that apply to copywriting, her reach framework, what she's done to grow her business this year, and what she would do differently if she had to start over today. Kira:   Welcome, Gin. Rob:   Hey, Gin. Gin:   Hello, guys. How are you doing? Kira:   Good. Great to have you here. We have known you for a while. You were in the Copywriter Accelerator program, and then the Copywriter Think Tank Mastermind, and most recently, you spoke on stage at The Copywriter Club in real life in San Diego. So, we've seen firsthand how you've grown in your business, and I'll be fun today to share a little bit more about what's been happening behind the scenes. So, why don't we start with your story and how you ended up as a copywriter? Gin:   Right. Sure, absolutely. Well, it's been relatively recent that I transitioned into copywriting in fact. I started out in educational publishing. I was a copyeditor for the longest time. Decades, in fact. So, yeah, I've been altering minds with word power for a little while. I was a copyeditor, as I say, and a commissioning editor. I was also a kids' science author within that educational field. I went into that basically straight from university, straight after I graduated way back, and I worked up from the bottom there. But then I went freelance, in fact. I worked in-house at a couple of large educational publishers in the UK, this was. But then went freelance way back in 1995. Well, I continued to work with various publishers that I had worked for in-house for a little while, but then it branched out and I was working for various educational publishers.

Conversion designer and sales page specialist Melissa Burkheimer is the guest for the 187th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We talked a bit about why copywriters and designers don't always see eye-to-eye and what we all can do about it. We also asked Melissa about why she niched to conversion design and sales pages and her design process. Here's what we covered: •  how Melissa became a “conversion designer” and started her own business •  what she learned from investing in several programs and courses •  how she connected with Amy Porterfield through a friend of a friend the “relationship” process she followed to keep adding clients to her roster •  her thoughts about “pay to play” and what we think about it too •  what she would do to get traction if she had to start over today •  why she niched to working only on sales pages and the impact on her biz •  how she prices her sales pages and the packages she offers •  what it takes for copywriters to work closely with a designer •  the difference between a regular designer and a conversion designer •  her design process and how she works on a project •  her thoughts on wireframes provided by copywriters •  what to do when the designer wants to cut your copy •  the things that copywriters do that bug designers •  what Melissa is working on today and the future of conversion design It's another great discussion that will give you plenty to think about. Ready to hear what Melissa has to say? Click the play button below. Or scroll down for a full transcript. Or subscribe on your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Rick Mulready B-School Amy Porterfield Erica Lyremark Elizabeth Dialto Sage Polaris Gin Walker Melissa’s podcast Melissa’s website The Conversion Design School Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira Hug:   This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground, the place to be if you want to master marketing mindset and copywriting in your business and hit 10K a month in your business without losing your mind. Learn more at thecopywriterunderground.com. Rob Marsh:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira Hug:   You're invited to join the club for episode 187 as we chat with conversion designer Melissa Burkheimer about what copywriters need to know about the design process, how good design makes your copy way more effective, why she only works with seven clients a year and why she created the Conversion Design School. Welcome Melissa. Rob Marsh:   Hey Melissa. Melissa Burkheimer:   Hi, Kira and Rob, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Kira Hug:   We're excited to have you here. You and I met, I don't know, three or four years ago, maybe working on a sales page project for Rick Mulready, and that's when we first met. And it was such a positive experience to work with you on the design side because I know, we'll talk about this today, but oftentimes it feels like copywriters are battling designers and designers are battling copywriters on projects. But when we worked together, it was just really collaborative and we became friends too, which it was a great surprise too. So a lot of what we're going to talk about today is how we can work together more effectively. But before we dig into that, why don't we just start with you and your story? How did you end up as a designer? Melissa Burkheimer:   So it's a funny story. So I actually had a business, I was a professional paid singer as a kid when I was eight and I quit when I was 11. And by the time I quit,

In the 186th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with two ambitious copywriters who recently launched the first of many Women Led Summits. Their first summit included 45 different speakers, helped them grow their email list and actually made money. We wanted to know how they did it, so we invited Great Cate and Betsy Muse to the studio to chat. Here's what we covered: •  how Betsy and Greta became business partners •  the paths they both took to becoming copywriters •  the original vision for the women-led summit and how it came together •  what does it take to create a summit today •  all the moving pieces for producing a summit… time, editing, interviews, etc. •  how Betsy and Greta made it all work •  their favorite take aways from the 45 speakers who participated •  the impact the summit had on their list and bottom line •  the real goal of their summit (it wasn’t really about the money) •  how they promoted their summit—the promotion plan •  their advice to anyone considering creating their own summit •  how they make their partnership work—the benefit of partners •  what the future looks like for both Betsy and Greta •  how they’ve dealt with mindset issues (like introversion) as they’ve grown If you've ever considered creating a summit for your niche, you'll want to make sure to listen to this episode, which you can do when you click the play button below. Or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Joanna Wiebe App Sumo WomenLedSummits.com HeySummit The Copywriter Club In Real Life Betsy’s Website Greta’s Website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob:   This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Accelerator, 12-week program for copywriters who want to learn the business skills they need to succeed as copywriters. Learn more at thecopywriteraccelerator.com. Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the club for episode 186 as we chat with two copywriters, Betsy Muse and Greta Cate, about forming a business partnership with another copywriter, running a summit and their advice for anyone who wants to do one, their biggest struggles in business and what comes next. Kira:   Betsy and Greta, welcome. Rob:   Hi guys. Betsy Muse:   Thank you. It's great being here. Thanks for having us. Kira:   We're excited to have both of you. It's a little party today with the four of us. We were both recently a part of your summit that you ran a couple months ago now, your first ever Women-Led Summit. So I know we're going to dig into that today and talk about summits which are quite popular right now in the COVID-19 landscape. Lots of summits are popping up. But why don't we start with your story. How did you two end up as business partners? Betsy Muse:   Well, it's a really a funny story. Greta and I met in Joanna Wiebe's 10x Freelance Copywriter and bonded over a shared love for AppSumo lifetime deals. Greta Cate:   Yeah. Betsy Muse:   Greta invited me for coffee. I thought, "Hey, great. She lives in North Carolina somewhere, and so we'll just meet halfway in between." Now, Greta lives in Corpus Christi, Texas. We weren't quite meeting in person. And then a week after our virtual coffee, we started an accountability group in 10x Freelance Copywriter. That group is still active today. Greta Cate:   Yeah. We had right off the bat realized that we had some shared values and were interested in making and having the same kind of impact. Back to AppSumo, they have this summit deal and we were talking about that and Betsy said,

Health copywriter, Darren Hanser, is our guest for the 185th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We recently met Darren at an event in Las Vegas, then again at The Copywriter Club In Real Life and after chatting, we knew we had to have him on the show. Darren has built a solid copy business and we got him to share how he did it. Here's what we talked about: •  why he may have been destined to become a copywriter even as a child •  the google search term that led him to a career as a copywriter •  how he made more than $98,000 in a weekend… to prove he could write •  how he learned to come up with lots of good ideas •  the importance of the mechanism and how Darren uses it in his copy •  his “double down” approach to finding more copy assignments •  his “leap frog” approach to investing in the next thing •  how he got a client to pay for his first copy coach •  what his business looks like today and where his income comes from •  his writing process from research to delivery •  depression, darkness and overwhelm and having to ask for help •  why he attends events and masterminds when his business is already doing well •  his take aways from The Copywriter Club In Real Life •  the three things you must do to succeed as a copywriter •  how Darren structures his fees—a lesson he learned in the insurance industry •  what it’s like to look like Seth Rogan •  what’s next for Darren in his business this year This is another good one. To hear it, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. And consider subscribing on your favorite podcast app so you don't ever miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Ask by Ryan Levesque Dan Ferrari Justin Goff Stefan Georgi Dean Jackson's Naked Truth Letter Copy Chief Live Kim Krause Schwalm Kaitlyn Parker Darren's website darrenhanser.com 15minuteemails.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira Hug:   This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Accelerator, the 12-week program for copywriters who want to learn the business skills they need to succeed. Learn more at thecopywriteraccelerator.com. Rob Marsh:   What if you can hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira Hug:   You're invited to join the club for Episode 185, as we chat with health supplement copywriter Darren Hanser about writing for wellness and info products, how he commands high fees for the work he does, what he's done to grow his business, and what it's like to be Seth Rogan's doppelganger. Welcome, Darren. Rob Marsh:   Hey, Darren. Darren Hanser:   Had to throw that in there, right? Kira Hug:   You gave that piece of information to me. Darren Hanser:   It's great to be here. Rob Marsh:   That's probably where we should start. Kira Hug:   Yeah, exactly. Darren, we met you in Las Vegas not too long ago. We were fast friends and then we saw you again a couple weeks later at TCC in real life before the world shut down. Today, I'm excited to just dig more into your story and what you've done to grow. Why don't we kick it off with how you became a copywriter? What's your story? Darren Hanser:   What's your story? It's funny, because that's the question I ask people and it gets them talking. But when people ask me that I stumble sometimes. Kira Hug:   It gets you talking, it's going to get you talking, yeah. Darren Hanser:   It's gets me talking. The earliest I remember I was always in a sales mentality, just in my own mind. Even as a young child, I was always trying to persuade my parents to do things and I would come up with these arguments, I would come up with these very logical and emotional appeals...

Copywriter Rachel Greiman is our guest for the 184th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rachel has worked almost exclusively with photographers since she launched her copywriting business a few years ago. We talked about how the niche found her, her unique process and more. Here's most of what we covered: •  how she became a photographer and copywriter •  her work as a photo-journalist and the work she did •  the struggle she had in early days in her business as a copywriter •  how she charged $200 for entire websites—and why it was so low •  how clients found her as she launched her copywriting business •  why she works with associate writers and how she trained them •  what her business looks like today compared to those early days •  how she works with and pays her team and what she expects from them •  why she pays her team well and how it has helped her business •  how she trains her team to make sure they can deliver •  why she only takes one client at a time and her delivery schedule •  how she thinks about her “competitors” •  the “guide” she created to develop a second income stream •  what she learned from the process of launching a product •  the first time she ever met another copywriter and what happened after that •  what she’s done to take her business to the next level •  dealing with the virus and running a business in a time of disruption •  the reason to be optimistic about the future right now To hear all the great advice Rachel has to share, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Or subscribe at iTunes or Stitcher so you never miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Rachel’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob:   This episode is brought to you by the copywriter accelerator, the 12-week program for copywriters who want to learn the business skills they need to succeed as copywriters, learn more at thecopywriteraccelerator.com Kira:   What if you get to hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts? Ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits. Then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work. That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the club for episode 184 as we chat with copywriter for photographers Rachel Greiman about the power of choosing a niche building and managing team, creating a completely different offer for her audience and what she's done to take the business to a new level this year. Kira:   Rachel, welcome. Rachel:   Hi. Thanks for having me. Thanks for dealing with the last 40 minutes of tech problems with us. I'm sure that 90% of it was my fault. So... Rob:   Everyone is working from home these days and so the internet does not want to cooperate. Kira:   The internet is full. That is true. Rachel:   It is full. Kira:   So Rachel, we have been working with you and been able to get to know you through the Think Tank over the last 12 months. And we're excited to share a bit more about your story and some of the wins and even some of the struggles. But why don't we start with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Rachel:   That is a really great question and probably one I should have mentally prepared for knowing this, coming here. I just feel like it's such a winding road and it always gets so long. I will try to condense it though. Kira:   Okay. Rachel:   So I studied photojournalism in college, so writing and photography always went hand in hand for me. Like I was always doing both. And then after college I worked in the nonprofit field for a long time, almost a decade actually. And I would always get hired for one skillset, either writing or photography. And then I always ended up doing both together because at nonprofits ...

SEO Consultant (and reformed web designer) Meg Casebolt is our guest for the 183rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Since this is an area that we don't have real deep knowledge in, we asked Meg all about what copywriters need to know about SEO and what they should be trying to rank for. And we spent a lot of time talking about the 3-week challenge she put together last year and how it helped grow her list. Here's a pretty good list of what we covered: •  how she went from graphic design to SEO—it’s about grabbing opportunity •  what she did to learn SEO in the first place •  what she did to work through the pivot from design to SEO •  Meg’s advice for anyone working through their own pivot (or choosing a niche) •  how she ramped up her client acquisition after the first few referrals •  the best thing she’s done to grow her authority since her pivot •  the surprising thing that scared Meg as she was running her challenge •  how she ran her challenge and how she engaged her affiliates •  why her challenge took off (and why people joined in the middle) •  how she structured her challenge from start to finish •  the results that participants got as they went through the program •  how Meg kept people engaged in the Challenge from start to finish •  why adding a deadline helped people finish their Challenge assignments •  why she no longer does PPC as part of her services •  what a copywriter needs to know about SEO and getting online traffic •  why you shouldn’t try to rank for a term like “copywriter” •  the importance of putting great content on your own website •  how she has dealt with mindset issues around working with clients •  the end-product she provides clients after a consulting session •  why she decided to rebrand her services as she grew her team •  what her team looks like today and where Meg spends her time We covered a lot of ground in this one. To hear it, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Or subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher so you don't miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Accelerator Tanya Geisler SEOctober MemberVault Meg’s Website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira:  This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Accelerator, the 12-week program for copywriters who want to learn the business skills they need to succeed. Learn more at thecopywriteraccelerator.com. Rob:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira:  You're invited to join the club for Episode 183 as we chat with SEO strategist, Meg Casebolt about planning and writing search friendly content, why SEO needs to be a part of your marketing mix, what it takes to run a month-long challenge as well as the results she got and why has she rebranded and refocused her business solely on SEO. Welcome Meg. Rob:   Hey, Meg. Meg:  Hey, it's so nice to be here with you guys. Kira:  Yeah, it's great to have you here. I've been able to get to know you over the last nine months or so through Tanya Geisler and I'm excited to just dig into your business more and talk about a lot of the changes that you've made and challenges that you've taken on, so let's kick it off with your story. How did you get into SEO? Meg:  Okay, so my story is, I think a pretty common one, which is that I had been working in communications for many years. I worked in nonprofits. I worked at an architecture firm for a couple of years doing all of their marketing. I got married, I got pregnant, and I looked at the cost of childcare and I don't know if I can swear on this podcast, but I swore.

SaaS Copywriter Rachael Pilcher is our guest for the 182nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We've had a front row seat over the past year as Rachael has made dramatic changes to her business and stepped up as an expert in the SaaS space. So we wanted to ask her about: •  how she went from travel blogging to SaaS copywriting •  what she did to find her first clients—it started with job boards •  what she learned running a “little shop” and why she sold it •  why she niched into SaaS and the clients she works with today •  the process she went through to choose her niche •  what she did to transition from blogger to fully booked copywriter •  her processes from start to finish on a project •  what she looks for in clients she takes (and those she rejects) •  her new website and the process she went through to get where she is •  Rachael’s SNACKS framework and how she uses it •  the resources she’s used to improve her skills and grow her business •  value-based pricing and price anchoring •  the biggest mistake she made in her business •  why she hangs out where other copywriters DON’T hang out •  how she works and avoids the temptation of site seeing while traveling •  what Rachael is doing in 2020 This is a good one. To hear it, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Or subscribe with your favorite podcast app (don't forget to leave a review).   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Josh Garofalo Joel Klettke Joanna Wiebe Rachael's website Copywriter Think Tank Nigel Stevens Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob:   This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Accelerator, the 12-week program for copywriters who want to learn the business skills they need to succeed. Learn more at thecopywriteraccelerator.com Kira:  What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the club for episode 182 as we chat with SaaS copywriter Rachael Pilcher about working with software clients, the investments she's made in her business that have paid off, what she learned from her brick and mortar businesses, and what it's like to work and travel for months at a time. Kira:  Welcome, Rachael. Rob:   Hey, Rachael. Rachael:      Nice to be here. Thank you for having me on. Kira:  Great to have you here. It's great to have you in a time zone near me, selfishly. I just feel like you're near me finally because you're traveling all over the place, which I know we'll talk about. But yeah, we've just really enjoyed getting to know you through the Think Tank over the last year and I just feel like you're one of those people that is always, you're just cool. You're just always cool. When we're not around you at the Think Tank, we're all talking about just how you live a very cool life and you've done very well in your business and built this really interesting brand that stands out. I mean, you've done it in a short period of time. Kira:  We're going to talk about the cool factor today, but let's kick it off with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Rachael:      Well, it was kind of accidentally, actually. I had sold my business and I'd sold my classic car as well, so I had quite a bit of money saved up and I just wanted to travel because I hadn't really done that. So travel, travel, travel, and then obviously started running out of money. So it's like, what can I do to keep traveling and also have some money coming in? I think I just Googled and Googled and I came across... It was actually Nomadic Matt's traveling blog course, embarrassingly enough.

In the 181st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk about what happened at TCCIRL—the best event we've held yet. Several speakers stepped up at the last minute, others brought their A-game and shared ideas and stories that have changed the businesses of the 130+ copywriters who were there. We talk about: •  the earthquake, the virus and the economic response to it •  why we can’t afford to operate from a place of fear no matter what is going on •  why TCCIRL felt “better” this year than in the past •  the speakers who had less than 48 hours to get stage ready •  a few of the speakers who really stood out to us •  what Jasmine Star taught us about scaling a business •  the hero’s journey and what marketers miss when they talk about it •  some of the advice that came out of the panel discussions •  how to think about branding from the standpoint of authenticity •  the power of constraints to make us more creative •  why its important to think about your role as a human asset, not just a copywriter •  what you should do differently during a recession •  why the Copywriter Think Tank is about and the transformation members see If you can't get enough of what happened at TCCIRL or you want more information about The Copywriter Think Tank, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank TCCIRL Mike Kim Dana Malstaff Marcella Allison Ray Edwards Jasmine Star Jamie Jensen Tanya Geisler Linda Perry Lindsay Hotmire Justin Blackman Matt Hall Gin Walker Bond Halbert Stefan Georgi Sam Woods Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob:   So, we do not have an intro for this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast because it's just me and Kira chatting about what went down over the last week or so at The Copywriter Club In Real Life. And so yeah, we just wanted to jump in and share some of our biggest takeaways, what happened and express our gratitude for some things that happened. And reflect a little bit on the magic that we got to experience last week. Kira:  Well it's not just me and you, it's me and you and the earthquake. Rob:   So, we did have an earthquake here this morning, so hopefully- Kira:  No biggy. Rob:   The power will stay on long enough to make sure that everything here is good. But yeah, it's been kind of a crazy morning Kira while it's been not just the morning, right? With the virus, with everything that's going on it's a crazy, a lot of things. Kira:  And Rob is kind of downplaying the earthquake like, ‘Oh, it's just a little earthquake.’ It was a big one and with several follow-up tremors. I don't speak earthquake language because I live on the East Coast, we don't have earthquakes here typically. But can you just share, I mean these are big earthquakes that you experienced today. Rob:   Yeah, the first big one that we felt this morning was like a 5.7 on the Richter scale, which is- Kira:  It's a big deal. Rob:   It's big enough to knock down walls and there's definitely been a little bit of damage. They closed the airport because of some water main breakage, they had to evacuate I think the tower. I'm not sure if there was any damage there, but I'm far enough away from the epicenter that I've walked around my house, there's no damage to our house and there are no fatalities reported, no injuries. So while it could have certainly been worse and maybe someday a worse earthquake will happen here. We survived this one. But it is freaky when the ground starts moving, when everything in your house starts to shake and it's happened seven or eight times this morning of the ones that we could feel. And yeah. So, who knows? Like if you hear a rumble in the background while we're chatting here, it could be another aftershock going on and on and I'll just dive under my desk...