TCC Podcast #189: Life as a 50 Year Old Man with Carline Anglade Cole

In the 189th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with A-lister Carline Anglade Cole on how supporting her firefighter husband led to a career as a copywriter, what she learned from her mentor Clayton Makepeace, how she connects with her prospects and more. Here's a bit of what we covered... •  her ballsy approach to scoring a 2-hour interview for a marketing position •  how she learned the craft of copywriting without courses or books •  how doing a great job on a promotion got her fired (and 6 months of severance) •  the WWCD question that helped her write a promotion that got a 5% response •  what she’s done to go deeper with copy than most copywriters •  her life as a 50 year old white man •  what she learned from working with Clayton Makepeace •  her approach to testing a lot emotions so the market comes to her •  how her income went up every time Clayton criticized her writing •  what it takes to write kick-butt copy that resonates with her audience •  the “mom test” she uses to make sure she believes in the product •  how she reworks her copy to make sure it’s as strong as possible •  her kids—three of four of whom have worked as copywriters This episode should not be missed. To hear it, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Or add it to your podcast player now.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Clayton Makepeace Gary Bencivenga Kim Schwalm Marcella Allison Carline's Website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira:   This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. The place to find more than 20 templates, dozens of presentations on topics like copywriting, and marketing, and mindset. A community of successful writers, who share ideas and leads, and The Copywriter Club newsletter, which is mailed directly to your home every month. Learn more at thecopywriterunderground.com. Rob:   If you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their success and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work, that's what Kira and I do every week, at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira:   You're invited to join the club for episode 189, as we chat with A list health copywriter, Carline Anglade-Cole, about working with and learning from her mentor, Clayton Makepeace. Her life as a 50 year-old white man, hiring her kids to write copy for her, connecting emotionally with the buyers she writes for and what it takes to write kick butt copy. Welcome, Carline. Rob:   Hey, Carline. Carline:    Hey guys, how are you? Rob:   We're doing good. Carline:    I liked the intro, Kira. Kira:   That was all Rob, Rob wrote that one. Carline:    Oh, Rob, very nice, very nice. Kira:   So we're excited to have you back. We tried to record this, I don't know, was it a year ago, more than a year ago now and I had major tech issues and so we didn't know if this interview was ever going to happen, and I'm so glad that it will. So thanks, Carline for coming back. Carline:    Thanks for inviting me. Kira:   And let's kick it off with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Carline:    Definitely, it was not a life plan. I had no idea what copywriting was. I had gone to school and got my degree in communications and journalism, so I always knew I wanted to be in the writing field somehow, but didn't quite know how. I just sort of stumbled across the whole copywriting thing when I got a job working at Phillips Publishing. At the time, I had a two and a half year-old and a one-year-old and I was just looking for a job that would complement my husband's schedule. He was a firefighter and he worked shift work. So we had these kids and we wanted to be home with our kids ourselves. So I had to find some kind of a job that would allow me to have a flexibility of being off when he had to work. And then the days were shifts, so it would change. And I happened to stumble across an ad in the paper for a customer service job for a direct response company, called Phillips Publishing. The biggest draw to me with that ad, was just that flexible schedule. So I called and I interviewed and I got the job, working at customer service and that's how I got into the whole direct response business. I had no idea how it worked, but here I was now answering phone calls and talking to customers and then I'm seeing these renewal letters going and I'm hearing about different aspects of direct mail. And I'm like, "Wow, this is interesting, but again, totally new to me." And as I was working there, the company was very entrepreneurial, I mean, if you had an idea, didn't matter where you worked, if you had an idea, you could submit an idea. And then if it was a good one, they'd give you credit for it and help make it happen. So I loved that environment and Tom Phillips and Bob King were the two guys there that were running the show. And just did an excellent job, so it was a great opportunity to learn from the ground floor. And I worked in customer service there, I was there and then I end up switching over to the accounting department. Again, flexible schedule was the key. And I got probably an extra two bucks an hour, moving over to accounting. And I have a way of talking myself into jobs, because I have no accounting background whatsoever. But I got a job in the accounting department and we had to reconcile the bank statements. So I did that for about a year and a half and while working in the accounting department, was when I started seeing paperwork coming through for a new division that was going to be starting up, within Phillips Publishing. At the time it was only a financial newsletter, but now they're about to launch the health market. And I was like, "Now, this sounds interesting." So I'm seeing that they're really trying to grow this and then now we're seeing that they're looking for people with marketing background and all kinds of skills that they're looking for, for that division and I had none of those skills. But it sounded interesting and I wanted to try it. Well, one of the jobs I had in the accounting department was, every Friday I had to stay as late as necessary to distribute what was called the green sheet. Every day we'd get the green sheet, it would have the daily sales for the company. But on Friday, it would give us the total for the week and other information in there. So, that was a very coveted piece of information that the powers that be, Bob King, and Tom Phillips and other CBPs in the company were waiting for that green sheet. And I was the one that had to put the last numbers in it and then I had to go around and hand deliver it to the key people in the company. Well, Bob King was hiring, he was in charge of this health division and I had applied. I had tried to get a job the traditional way of applying, but nobody was getting back to me. So I decided I was taking matters into my own hands, and so it was a Friday and I decided, okay, this is it. So I go to Bob, I go in his office. And usually Bob has his head down and just kind of puts his hand up and he goes, "Hi, Carline, thank you." And then that's it. Like, "Hey, Bob, here you go, bye." But this time, he had his head down and I walked in and I held the green sheet about maybe six or eight inches from his grasp. So, that he had to look up to realize he couldn't get it. And here I am holding it and as he's leaning to get it, I'm pulling it back further. And he's like, "Okay, what's going on?" I'm like, "Hey, I've been trying to get an interview for a job in this department, but nobody's getting back to me. So I need an interview. I need you to give me a job, and do something here." And he says, "So you're pretty much holding this ransom for me?" I'm like, "You know what, call it what you want to. I need an interview; I need an interview." And this for like a marketing assistant position. And so I'm sitting there going, he's looking like, if you knew Bob King, deadpan, very serious person, very wonderful person. But never gives off any emotion initially. So I'm standing there, I'm not budging and he's not getting that green sheet, until he gets me an interview. And so he's like, "Are you serious?" I'm like, "Yeah, I want to interview for the marketing position." And so next thing I know, he pulls out his calendar. He says, "Okay, let's do this." And he actually gives me an interview date. I'm like, "Oh my God." So I said, "Thank you." And I got out of there as quick as possible. Then I got a phone call from his secretary to set up the actual meeting. And I will tell you, that was probably the most intense interview I have ever had in my entire life, I mean, my career. And I've had many interviews for other positions, much higher than that. But for a marketing assistant position, that Bob King interviewed me for, it was over two hours long, yeah. I love to sew and I was making my clothes, two reasons, I love to sew, second is, I couldn't afford to buy the stuff that I liked. So I had made this really pretty green suit, with a navy blue trim too, it was kind of like a Chanel look suit. Oh a fitted skirt, a pencil skirt, it was really cute. So I say that because I was sitting in that interview with Bob King and by the end of that interview, I had ruined the suit with the sweat that had been pouring down from my back. I mean, I stained all the back of my suit. I'm like, "Oh my gosh." But he just asked such intense questions and was really just trying to get to know who I was and wanted to just kind of make sure there's a connection. [inaudible] I'm like, "You do this type of intensive interview for a marketing assistant, are you serious?" And he says, "Oh no, I'm not hiring you as a marketing assistant." He says,