TCC Podcast #187: What Copywriters Need To Know About Design with Melissa Burkheimer

Conversion designer and sales page specialist Melissa Burkheimer is the guest for the 187th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We talked a bit about why copywriters and designers don't always see eye-to-eye and what we all can do about it. We also asked Melissa about why she niched to conversion design and sales pages and her design process. Here's what we covered: •  how Melissa became a “conversion designer” and started her own business •  what she learned from investing in several programs and courses •  how she connected with Amy Porterfield through a friend of a friend the “relationship” process she followed to keep adding clients to her roster •  her thoughts about “pay to play” and what we think about it too •  what she would do to get traction if she had to start over today •  why she niched to working only on sales pages and the impact on her biz •  how she prices her sales pages and the packages she offers •  what it takes for copywriters to work closely with a designer •  the difference between a regular designer and a conversion designer •  her design process and how she works on a project •  her thoughts on wireframes provided by copywriters •  what to do when the designer wants to cut your copy •  the things that copywriters do that bug designers •  what Melissa is working on today and the future of conversion design It's another great discussion that will give you plenty to think about. Ready to hear what Melissa has to say? Click the play button below. Or scroll down for a full transcript. Or subscribe on your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Rick Mulready B-School Amy Porterfield Erica Lyremark Elizabeth Dialto Sage Polaris Gin Walker Melissa’s podcast Melissa’s website The Conversion Design School Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira Hug:   This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground, the place to be if you want to master marketing mindset and copywriting in your business and hit 10K a month in your business without losing your mind. Learn more at thecopywriterunderground.com. Rob Marsh:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira Hug:   You're invited to join the club for episode 187 as we chat with conversion designer Melissa Burkheimer about what copywriters need to know about the design process, how good design makes your copy way more effective, why she only works with seven clients a year and why she created the Conversion Design School. Welcome Melissa. Rob Marsh:   Hey Melissa. Melissa Burkheimer:   Hi, Kira and Rob, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Kira Hug:   We're excited to have you here. You and I met, I don't know, three or four years ago, maybe working on a sales page project for Rick Mulready, and that's when we first met. And it was such a positive experience to work with you on the design side because I know, we'll talk about this today, but oftentimes it feels like copywriters are battling designers and designers are battling copywriters on projects. But when we worked together, it was just really collaborative and we became friends too, which it was a great surprise too. So a lot of what we're going to talk about today is how we can work together more effectively. But before we dig into that, why don't we just start with you and your story? How did you end up as a designer? Melissa Burkheimer:   So it's a funny story. So I actually had a business, I was a professional paid singer as a kid when I was eight and I quit when I was 11. And by the time I quit,