TCC Podcast #184: My Life as an Accidental Copywriter with Rachel Greiman

Copywriter Rachel Greiman is our guest for the 184th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rachel has worked almost exclusively with photographers since she launched her copywriting business a few years ago. We talked about how the niche found her, her unique process and more. Here's most of what we covered: •  how she became a photographer and copywriter •  her work as a photo-journalist and the work she did •  the struggle she had in early days in her business as a copywriter •  how she charged $200 for entire websites—and why it was so low •  how clients found her as she launched her copywriting business •  why she works with associate writers and how she trained them •  what her business looks like today compared to those early days •  how she works with and pays her team and what she expects from them •  why she pays her team well and how it has helped her business •  how she trains her team to make sure they can deliver •  why she only takes one client at a time and her delivery schedule •  how she thinks about her “competitors” •  the “guide” she created to develop a second income stream •  what she learned from the process of launching a product •  the first time she ever met another copywriter and what happened after that •  what she’s done to take her business to the next level •  dealing with the virus and running a business in a time of disruption •  the reason to be optimistic about the future right now To hear all the great advice Rachel has to share, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Or subscribe at iTunes or Stitcher so you never miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Rachel’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob:   This episode is brought to you by the copywriter accelerator, the 12-week program for copywriters who want to learn the business skills they need to succeed as copywriters, learn more at thecopywriteraccelerator.com Kira:   What if you get to hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts? Ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits. Then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work. That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the club for episode 184 as we chat with copywriter for photographers Rachel Greiman about the power of choosing a niche building and managing team, creating a completely different offer for her audience and what she's done to take the business to a new level this year. Kira:   Rachel, welcome. Rachel:   Hi. Thanks for having me. Thanks for dealing with the last 40 minutes of tech problems with us. I'm sure that 90% of it was my fault. So... Rob:   Everyone is working from home these days and so the internet does not want to cooperate. Kira:   The internet is full. That is true. Rachel:   It is full. Kira:   So Rachel, we have been working with you and been able to get to know you through the Think Tank over the last 12 months. And we're excited to share a bit more about your story and some of the wins and even some of the struggles. But why don't we start with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Rachel:   That is a really great question and probably one I should have mentally prepared for knowing this, coming here. I just feel like it's such a winding road and it always gets so long. I will try to condense it though. Kira:   Okay. Rachel:   So I studied photojournalism in college, so writing and photography always went hand in hand for me. Like I was always doing both. And then after college I worked in the nonprofit field for a long time, almost a decade actually. And I would always get hired for one skillset, either writing or photography. And then I always ended up doing both together because at nonprofits everybody wears a ton of hats. So it quickly became apparent to me that both skill sets were married together kind of indefinitely in my life and I didn't mind it. I really loved doing both. And then my last full time job, I was doing both together. I was the writer and photographer at a rescue mission in Denver, Colorado. And then I decided I wanted to pursue my own business and I decided I wanted to be a full time family photographer. So I was just kind of putting writing off to the side for a while. And then I joined all the Facebook groups that one joins when they decided to become a photographer and everybody kept asking generic questions about writing. How do I write my about page? How do I write my homepage? How do I write this email to a client? And it was a very natural way for me to be helpful in these new communities. So I could ask my questions about running a photography business and not feel like I was merging. And so I started getting paid to help people write because it was a skill I had already learned in the nonprofit field. And then gradually it was like, "Oh, I guess I'm running a copywriting and photography business again." Rob:   So can we jump all the way back and talk about photojournalism for a minute- Rachel:   Sure. Rob:   ... because this is something I've never done. And I'm curious what were the assignments like and how much of it was photos versus writing about the things that you were taking pictures of? What were you doing? Rachel:   It depends on the semester honestly, because some classes were purely journalism and some classes were purely photography and there were only a couple that married them both. So it was basically like double majoring kind of alongside one another. But the photo journalism classes, I laugh so hard now. My husband and I, we moved back to Philadelphia last year after being in Denver for eight years. And Philly is actually where I went to college and studied photojournalism. So it's been funny to be back in the city where I learned all of this. And the assignments we were given, would never fly now. They were so dangerous. It was like go stand in the middle of downtown and ask 12 strangers if you can photograph them and ask these seven questions and I want you to come up with this story about them. And it's like I was 19 years old with a very expensive camera around my neck alone on the streets of Philadelphia talking to homeless people because again, I've worked in the nonprofit field for a long time and I worked with homeless people in college, so I was interviewing random homeless men on the streets of Philly when I was 19 and I'm grateful for the experience, but it was a little extreme and probably would not be what is assigned now. Kira:   So Rachel, how did you juggle both businesses? So the photography business, which you originally started in, and then the copywriting business that quickly grew out of the communities that you were in. What did that look like in those early days? Rachel:   In the early days, I just did both of them poorly. If I'm being completely honest, I really had a hard time focusing because my heart was so into photography. I think because I've publicly set out to run a photography business, so I was so stubborn about making sure that, that's what was successful and it just wasn't. Copywriting came up really organically into this business and I refused to advertise for it. I refused to make it a part of my brand. It was just like if you heard about me and you inquired with me, I might work with you. And then even with that terrible business plan, I started making more money copywriting, then doing photos. And so it just became very apparent to me that I needed to let go of the focus on photography a little bit more so I could walk more confidently into copywriting and make more money. Rob:   Let's talk about how some of those first copywriting jobs came your way. I know you are in all of the groups and you were doing things in there, what were the things that you're doing and how did people start reaching out to you for work? How did you price those original projects and what were you doing? Rachel:   Oh my gosh, it's laughable. A couple hundred dollars maybe I was charging for entire websites in the beginning because I didn't... and I feel like I've heard this on your podcast so many times you grow up hearing writers don't make any money and I think that kind of infiltrates your first crack at pricing when you start charging for writing. So it was like, "Oh well everybody can sit down and write an email. I might just be able to do it a little bit better so I'm not going to charge that much." And the same thing was true for websites. So people would post in these groups. I would publicly respond in a comment and then they would message me privately back before Facebook had another folder where they all went and died and they would just say, "Hey, that comment was really helpful. Can I pay you to help me do this?" And I was like, "Oh yeah, I guess." And then photographers, they're all in the same groups. They're all learning the same things. They're really, really good at being part of online communities. So my name just started to get around a little bit in that circle. And I was already in a lot of the groups they were in. So it was very easy to find me and contact me. And the one thing that I did with photography was I was good about blogging, so people would go to my blog, read that I knew what I was doing when it came to writing, and then people would want help with that. So yeah, a couple hundred dollars for a website maybe. And then that morphed into like, "Oh, I need to formalize this process and this needs to be an offering that I have to give to people." Kira:   So Rachel, when did you actually start the copywriting side of your business? I just kind of want to... is it three years ago? Five years ago? Rachel:   I have to think here.