
“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies
After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact?
Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.
This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.
Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com
Latest episodes

5 snips
Dec 3, 2024 • 13min
C-Suite Budget Scrutiny? with Colleen McCreary
Explore the rising pressure on HR leaders as budget scrutiny intensifies from the C-suite. Delve into strategies for transforming difficult financial conversations into opportunities for building trust. The importance of proactive communication and assuming good intent in stakeholder management takes center stage. Discover how genuine human connections enhance leadership dynamics, emphasizing the value of in-person interactions over digital ones. Join a candid discussion on the balance between accountability and transparency in decision-making.

12 snips
Nov 26, 2024 • 50min
The 3AM People Leader: Donald Knight of Warner Brothers Discovery
Donald Knight, SVP of People and Culture at Warner Brothers Discovery, shares his journey through HR, highlighting the importance of vulnerability and authenticity in leadership. He discusses innovative parental leave strategies and the intersection of fitness with personal leadership, revealing how early morning workouts influence his productivity. Knight also addresses the evolving challenges of HR, including the complexities of diversity, equity, and inclusion, and the need for genuine company culture over mere imitation of others.

Nov 21, 2024 • 48min
Feedback Isn't a Gift, It's a Workout | Culture Amp CEO Didier Elzinga
Didier Elzinga, CEO of Culture Amp and former film industry professional, shares insights on leadership and workplace culture. He argues that many leaders misunderstand growth and discusses the detrimental effects of treating feedback casually. Didier emphasizes the need for trust and mission alignment in culture-first organizations, especially post-pandemic. He also highlights the role of storytelling in fostering engagement and improving communication within teams. His unique perspective bridges creativity and organizational psychology.

Nov 19, 2024 • 17min
Beyond the Red Flags: Managing Leadership Evolution
How do you support a founding CTO struggling to scale? The conversation dives into avoiding premature judgments and emphasizes building trust and relationships. The importance of nurturing existing leadership rather than plotting replacements is highlighted. Constructive feedback is explored as a tool for cultivating effective leadership, alongside the need for humility in self-assessment. Ultimately, fostering an environment of open communication and support is essential for successful transitions in growing companies.

Nov 14, 2024 • 29min
HR's Legal Blindside: The Litigation Wave
In this engaging discussion, Melanie Naranjo, Chief People Officer at Ethena, brings her expertise to the forefront as she addresses the rising tide of employee litigation. She highlights the challenges HR faces amidst growing concerns around discrimination and retaliation, driven by social media and changing workplace values. Melanie shares strategies for fostering open dialogue and setting clear expectations during recruitment. The conversation emphasizes balancing employee rights with the need for effective HR practices to navigate the evolving landscape of workplace dynamics.

Nov 12, 2024 • 14min
The Myth of the Perfect Candidate
Kelli and Nolan dive into the complexities of the hiring process, focusing on the importance of direct communication with hiring managers. They address how to navigate feedback and self-awareness to identify skills gaps. The conversation emphasizes crafting a unique personal narrative that highlights individual contributions rather than job titles. Listeners are encouraged to transform rejection into a growth opportunity, using feedback as a catalyst for personal and professional development.

Nov 7, 2024 • 44min
From Department of No to Strategic Partner: Pendo’s CPO on Modern HR
Trisha Price, Chief Product Officer at Pendo, shares insights from her extensive product leadership experience. She discusses the unique challenges of collaborating with founder-CEOs who are also product visionaries, emphasizing the need for clear boundaries and trust. Trisha also explores HR's transformation from a gatekeeper to a strategic partner, advocating for a lengthy recruiting process that fosters strong team dynamics. Plus, she reveals her surprising use of AI to connect with her grandmother, blending technology with personal touch.

Nov 5, 2024 • 18min
Election Day 2024: Leading Through the Divide
Nolan and Kelli tackle the challenges of a polarized workplace during the 2024 election. They discuss the decline of respectful political discourse and the dangers of social media rhetoric. Practical strategies for leaders managing divided teams are highlighted, emphasizing inclusivity and clear communication. The podcast also critiques media influence and explores how to support employees grappling with political tensions, all while maintaining professionalism and unity in the workplace.

Oct 31, 2024 • 34min
Beyond Emily in Paris: Navigating French Business Culture and HR Politics with Ciara Lakhani
Ciara Lakhani, former HR leader at Dashlane and the first head of people at Compass, shares her journey from New York to Paris. She debunks myths about French business culture, emphasizing the importance of authenticity and trust in cross-cultural leadership. Ciara discusses overcoming challenges like imposter syndrome and adapting to communication styles unique to France. She highlights the necessity of informal interactions in building relationships and the evolving role of HR professionals in a global landscape.

Oct 29, 2024 • 15min
From Empty Suits to Real Leaders
Dive into the concept of 'empty suit executives' and discover why they're becoming obsolete. Learn how authenticity and hard work are now the keys to leadership success. The conversation highlights a movement towards engaged leadership, with a focus on doers over detached managers. Explore personal stories showcasing the impacts of these shifts and how technology is reshaping corporate structures. The era of status-seeking executives is fading, paving the way for a new breed of genuine and adaptable leaders.