

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies
HR Heretics
After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact?
Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.
This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.
Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com
Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.
This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.
Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com
Episodes
Mentioned books

8 snips
Feb 28, 2025 • 26min
Agentic AI: Hype vs Reality? with Siadhal Magos of Metaview
Siadhal Magos, CEO of Metaview, dives into the fascinating world of agentic AI, discussing its current role and potential in HR. He examines the gap between AI hype and reality, sharing insights on traditional workflows and recruitment challenges. The conversation highlights the importance of effective prompts in optimizing AI interactions, showcasing tools like Whisperflow. Siadhal emphasizes the evolving relationship between AI and users, advocating for a collaborative approach to improve workplace productivity and decision-making.

7 snips
Feb 25, 2025 • 19min
The Feedback Dilemma: Ethics vs Risk
The discussion revolves around the ethics of providing feedback to job candidates, especially those who invested time in the process. Challenges like recruiter bandwidth and potential liability concerns are examined. The speakers emphasize the importance of treating candidates respectfully and encouraging transparent communication. They also explore how AI tools can enhance recruitment efficiency and decision-making. Lastly, the value of maintaining professional connections through gratitude and networking is highlighted.

Feb 20, 2025 • 40min
Airbnb’s Iain Roberts on Designing HR as a Strategic Service Function
Iain Roberts, Global Head of Employee Experience at Airbnb, is known for his innovative design-thinking approach to HR. He discusses the role of HR as a strategic service function, emphasizing the need for continual refinement of employee programs. Iain shares insights on implementing flexible work policies post-COVID, the balance between micromanagement and collaboration, and the transformative impact of AI on recruitment. He also clarifies misconceptions about CEO Brian Chesky's ‘Founder Mode’ and its relationship with organizational innovation.

Feb 18, 2025 • 45min
Board Seats and Beyond, with Asana's Head of People Anna Binder
In this engaging conversation, Anna Binder, Head of People at Asana and board member at CultureAmp, discusses her extensive HR journey. She shares insights on effective board dynamics and the importance of building relationships with fellow members. Anna emphasizes the long-term commitment required for DEI initiatives and the transformative power of authentic leadership. She also touches on the emotional challenges faced by women in high-pressure roles while advocating for thoughtful approaches in talent management and embracing AI for recruitment.

12 snips
Feb 14, 2025 • 15min
Tucking In Top Performers
Retention of top performers hinges on more than just salary; authentic appreciation and recognition play crucial roles. Strategies that eliminate compensation anxiety lead to stronger relationships with these key employees. Transparency in pay and thoughtful, personalized treatment can enhance loyalty and morale. The discussion also touches on how AI tools like MetaView can streamline recruitment processes, fostering more genuine interactions between candidates and employers.

16 snips
Feb 12, 2025 • 15min
Anthropic’s Interview Rules
Nolan and Kelli dive into the intriguing world of AI's role in hiring, sparked by Anthropic's controversial stance against its use in job applications. They discuss the double-edged sword of AI—its potential to enhance and deceive in interviews. The duo advocates for transparent use of AI tools, positioning candidates to showcase their skills rather than shun technology. An 'open book' interview strategy emerges as a way to assess true problem-solving abilities, while they explore the balance of human intuition with the rise of AI.

5 snips
Feb 7, 2025 • 24min
TikTok & Tech Layoff Strategy with Jesse Tinsley
Join entrepreneur Jesse Tinsley, founder of Employer.com, as he dives into his consortium's bold bid to acquire TikTok. He discusses its potential integration into his tech portfolio with the unique backing of influencer MrBeast. The conversation expands to the ethical dilemmas of executive compensation amid layoffs, emphasizing leadership accountability and morale. Tinsley also highlights how open dialogue can refine the discourse around layoffs, urging a reimagining of corporate practices for a more unified workplace.

18 snips
Feb 4, 2025 • 46min
Hidden Job Market: Exec Hiring 2025 with Adam Ward
Adam Ward, founding partner at Growth by Design, dives into the hidden job market and trends shaping executive hiring for 2025. He reveals how 'pocket listings' are overtaking traditional job postings and what CEOs truly seek in talent leaders—business acumen and operational excellence. Adam emphasizes the power of authentic networking and structured hiring processes to improve candidate experiences. He also discusses the role of AI in recruitment and how talent leaders can better align with CEOs to navigate this evolving landscape.

Jan 30, 2025 • 15min
Navigating the Complexity of Company Values
Kelli and Nolan dive into the art of crafting authentic company values that resonate throughout an organization. They discuss the critical role of aligning leadership and top performers to ensure values are genuinely reflected. The duo explores the 'Goldilocks approach' to effectively communicate these values, cautioning against misuse. Their collaborative insights reveal the importance of grassroots feedback in redefining values, illustrating how a thoughtful process can drive meaningful cultural change.

8 snips
Jan 28, 2025 • 16min
Breaking Through Reorg Paralysis
Kelli and Nolan dive into the frustrating delays of a reorg process, highlighting the tension between waiting for perfect plans and the need to act. They discuss the impact of drawn-out HR and legal reviews on business agility and the importance of swift decision-making. The conversation also emphasizes integrating legal counsel into leadership to enhance collaboration. Additionally, they explore the efficiencies brought by AI in recruitment, with a focus on communication and support during job transitions in restructuring.