
“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies
After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact?
Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.
This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.
Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com
Latest episodes

Sep 12, 2024 • 18min
Exec, Manager, Friend: CPO Trifecta
Context switching may be derailing HR productivity. The podcast explores how leaders juggle multiple roles and the necessity of authentic relationships in large organizations. Emphasizing tech tools, they discuss how advanced solutions can transform workforce planning and streamline hiring. Innovative communication strategies, like asynchronous updates and a shift back to phone calls, are examined to boost engagement. The conversation also highlights maintaining focus to enhance overall performance in today’s fast-paced environment.

Sep 10, 2024 • 17min
Promotions on Ice: Are you stuck?
Promotions have plummeted by 24% in early 2024, revealing a challenging job market landscape. The discussion highlights how tech roles are facing stagnation, with layoffs curbing traditional promotion paths. Employees are feeling dissatisfied and increasingly turning to side hustles for job security. The conversation also investigates the role of AI in HR and how it's reshaping hiring and retention strategies. As economic dynamics evolve, the importance of skill enhancement and professional networking has never been clearer.

Sep 6, 2024 • 48min
Equity: Cash or Carrot? With Guissu Baier of General Catalyst
Guissu Baier, a talent expert at General Catalyst, shares her insights from navigating equity compensation at Instacart. She challenges traditional refresh grant strategies and emphasizes the need for performance-driven models over outdated practices. The discussion delves into the balance between cash and equity compensation to boost employee retention, and the importance of aligning HR and legal perspectives for effective collaboration. Guissu also highlights customizable compensation options that enhance fairness and choice for employees.

Sep 5, 2024 • 22min
Everyone's Talking About Founder Mode
Paul Graham, a prominent YC founder who introduced the idea of 'Founder Mode,' joins Brian Chesky, the Airbnb visionary, for a deep dive into the challenges of effective leadership. They discuss the tension between control and delegation, emphasizing that founders should adopt a hands-on approach rather than feeling pressured to micromanage. The conversation highlights the importance of empathy in founder-team dynamics and stresses cultivating humility and transparency to build trust and foster productive relationships.

Aug 29, 2024 • 59min
DEI: Pushback or Paradigm Shift? With Vijay Pendakur
Vijay Pendakur, a DEI expert and founder of Vijay Pendakur Consulting, shares insights on the current pushback against diversity initiatives. He tackles the challenge of maintaining inclusion without divisiveness and emphasizes the need for measurable ROI in DEI efforts. The conversation explores the evolving corporate responsibility towards DEI, particularly in a hybrid workforce, and the tension between AI integration and commitment to diversity in hiring practices. Vijay's candid discussion reveals a call for courageous leadership and a paradigm shift in approach.

Aug 27, 2024 • 23min
When Is It Time to Quit Your Job?
Discover the signs that it might be time to leave your job, including how personal energy levels and engagement impact your decision. Explore the art of giving notice while nurturing your professional relationships. Learn about the crucial balance of financial readiness during transitions and the benefits of continuous self-awareness. Delve into the nuances of job tenure, and understand the dynamics between job hoppers and long-tenured employees. Gain insights on effective career strategies for a smooth and impactful exit.

14 snips
Aug 22, 2024 • 47min
Reinventing HR at Garner with Valentina Gissin
Valentina Gissin, former Head of Talent at Bridgewater and now Chief People Officer at Garner, shares invaluable insights on innovative hiring strategies. She discusses the unique interview processes at Garner, emphasizing structured case interviews and mentorship. Valentina dives into the complexities of hybrid work, advocating for intentional policies that enhance culture and productivity. She also explores the importance of continuous feedback, highlighting its role in fostering open communication and performance, while addressing the challenges leaders face in implementing these practices.

6 snips
Aug 20, 2024 • 23min
How Back Channels Really Shape Hiring Decisions
The discussion centers around the practice of back channels in hiring, revealing how they can impact candidate evaluations. There's a strong emphasis on transparency and ethics, urging candidates to be informed about these processes. Anecdotes highlight the importance of timing and context in gathering insights. The conversation addresses biases in hiring, particularly how homogeneity influences decisions, and calls for a more nuanced approach to candidate assessment.

Aug 15, 2024 • 51min
The Long Game of DEI: A Conversation with Joelle Emerson
Join Joelle Emerson, CEO of Paradigm, as she tackles the slow progress in corporate diversity and the complexities of measuring DEI initiatives. She discusses the importance of long-term strategies and transparency in demonstrating real impact. The conversation dives into the backlash against DEI efforts, especially in the tech industry, and emphasizes the crucial distinction between equity and equality. Joelle also shares insights on hiring practices, advocating for a thoughtful approach to foster genuine inclusivity in the workplace.

Aug 13, 2024 • 16min
The Vibe Shift in Tech
A major shift in tech culture sees lavish perks giving way to job insecurity and layoffs. Workers face rising stress, revealing deeper motivations behind their careers. The podcast reflects on the past through 'The Internship' and examines real struggles in tech entrepreneurship. With a focus on changing expectations, passion, and resilience, it highlights the crucial role of AI in recruitment. Solutions like WorkVivo are discussed to foster connectedness in today's hybrid work environment.
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