

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies
HR Heretics
After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact?
Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.
This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.
Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com
Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.
This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.
Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com
Episodes
Mentioned books

11 snips
Jan 23, 2025 • 43min
Smart Hiring with Tom Clayton
Tom Clayton, COO of Peek, is a powerhouse in team building and scaling companies with a unique, data-driven approach. He reveals his employee attribute chart to eliminate biases in hiring and shares why he sends champagne to candidates. Tom discusses the impact of AI on recruitment and the significance of cultural fit in hiring. He even encourages employees to start their own businesses! With insights on managing rapid growth and fostering trust, this conversation is a goldmine for high-performing organizations.

8 snips
Jan 21, 2025 • 22min
When Success Means New Bosses: A Startup Growth Story
Kelli and Nolan dive into the intricacies of leadership transitions in fast-growing startups. They highlight the challenges faced by new leaders stepping into roles above existing employees and stress the importance of nurturing current team members. Trust and open communication are paramount during these changes, ensuring respect for early contributors. The hosts also address the delicate balance between hiring externally and valuing internal talent, offering tactical advice and a touch of therapy for navigating the complexities of growth.

Jan 17, 2025 • 20min
Unlocking HR's Hidden Insights with Siadhal Magos [AI Corner]
Siadhal Magos, Co-founder and CEO of Metaview, shares insights on harnessing AI to revolutionize HR practices. He discusses the significance of unstructured data in making data-driven decisions and highlights how Metaview simplifies analyzing workplace conversations. The conversation dives into the transition from subjective evaluations to objective assessments of performance, alongside the critical balance between AI autonomy and human insight. Siadhal emphasizes that with AI, HR can enhance decision-making while preserving the essential human touch.

8 snips
Jan 15, 2025 • 16min
Adapting to Startup Reality and Having More Impact
Nolan and Kelli dive into the exhilarating chaos of startup life after leaving large corporations. They discuss the importance of building genuine relationships and embracing transparency in teams. The emotional challenges of adapting to this new environment are explored, with a focus on personal connections that enhance organizational health. They also highlight the demanding nature of startup culture, stressing the need for self-care and boundaries to maintain well-being amid the hustle.

4 snips
Jan 10, 2025 • 18min
The Art of Not Getting Fired for Not Firing People
The speakers share heartfelt concerns about the impacts of LA wildfires. They discuss the complexities of managing CEO-mandated attrition and transforming these directives into effective performance frameworks. Insightful strategies for navigating communications in the face of pressure are revealed. The conversation also highlights the role of AI in recruitment, enhancing connections and data quality. Finally, they challenge traditional notions of layoffs, advocating for transparency and empathy in HR practices.

11 snips
Jan 9, 2025 • 43min
The Anti-Org Chart: Why Colin Zima Traded HR for Chaos (and Won)
Colin Zima, former Looker executive and current Omni CEO, shares insights from his unique management style that thrives on minimal bureaucracy. He argues that founders should roll up their sleeves and tackle tough tasks directly. Colin explains his unconventional approach of operating without an HR or G&A team, valuing engagement over traditional roles. He discusses the cultural pitfalls from acquisitions, like the Google-Listener experience, and emphasizes the need for leaders to adapt their strategies in a hybrid work environment.

11 snips
Jan 2, 2025 • 48min
Big Tech Alumni: Help or Hindrance? with Bryan Power
In a captivating conversation, Bryan Power, a Silicon Valley veteran who shaped talent strategies at Google and Yahoo, dives into hiring practices amid tech culture. He shares why Square avoided hiring from the payments sector and the startup risks of conventional wisdom. Bryan emphasizes the importance of real-world experience over prestigious resumes and the role of leaders in employee training. He explores the delicate balance between a founder’s vision and evolving company culture, offering fresh insights for emerging companies.

8 snips
Dec 31, 2024 • 17min
The Very Best of Heretics 2024
Kick off the New Year with a discussion on the need for change in dysfunctional organizations. Delve into the power of authentic connections and accountability in hiring practices. Explore the role of curiosity in workplace dynamics, while challenging the reliance on charismatic leaders. Discover the concept of 'ninja teams' that are agile and responsive, ready to tackle any challenge, alongside innovative AI tools revolutionizing recruitment. Get ready for spicy takes and practical wisdom that could redefine your approach to HR.

Dec 20, 2024 • 29min
The Year End Special: Personal L’s, Big Wins, and Why Headcount is Dead
Kelli and Nolan share candid reflections on a transformative year, revealing personal struggles and triumphs. They recommend must-read books and binge-worthy podcasts that shaped their perspectives. Dive into their bold predictions for 2025, where they argue that traditional headcounts may be holding companies back. The discussion touches on themes of identity, resilience, and the necessity for authentic diversity and inclusion efforts in the workplace. Enjoy raw insights from two HR leaders who value real talk over fluff.

Dec 18, 2024 • 29min
Striking at the Heart of the Future of Work | AI Corner with Siadhal Magos on 11x AI
Siadhal Magos, CEO of Metaview and an AI expert, dives into the rising influence of AI on the workforce. He discusses how AI-powered sales reps could change job structures and the crucial funding behind automation trends. Siadhal emphasizes the balance between job displacement and the creation of new roles, urging workers to adapt. The podcast also highlights AI's transformative role in recruitment, streamlining processes while preserving essential human interaction for successful hiring.