
“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies
After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact?
Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.
This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.
Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com
Latest episodes

4 snips
Aug 8, 2024 • 38min
So the NYTimes says everyone hates HR, now what?
Nolan Church, a thought leader in HR discussions, and Kelli Dragovich, an advocate for impactful organizational leadership, dive into a provocative New York Times article criticizing HR. They discuss the pervasive dissatisfaction between employees and HR, the increasing strain on HR professionals, and the importance of collaborative leadership. They also explore the transformative potential of AI in hiring and the need for nurturing relationships within organizations to enhance both performance and employee well-being.

Aug 6, 2024 • 21min
Should Your Org do Amazon’s Bar Raiser Interviews?
Kelli Dragovich, an expert in bar raiser interview programs, teams up with Nolan Church, a keen commentator on hiring practices. They discuss the practicality of adopting bar raiser interviews, inspired by Amazon's model. The duo examines key advantages, such as minimizing biases through objective interviewers, while also uncovering potential challenges in implementation. They highlight the need for clear definitions and interviewer training to enhance candidate evaluations, making a strong case for thoughtful execution to attract top talent.

Aug 1, 2024 • 45min
AI-Powered Hiring, Really... with Siadhal Magos of Metaview
Siadhal Magos, CEO of Metaview and expert in AI-driven recruitment, shares insights on how AI is revolutionizing the hiring process. He discusses the role of AI tools in enhancing decision-making while preserving the human connection during interviews. Magos highlights the importance of data-driven insights to improve talent acquisition and tackle recruitment challenges. He also explores the balance between automation and personal touch, emphasizing the need for collaborative hiring environments that prioritize authentic candidate interactions.

4 snips
Jul 30, 2024 • 17min
How to Show Your Work
Kelli Dragovich, an HR strategies expert, and Nolan Church, an innovative HR solutions professional, dive into the proactive role HR can play in organizations. They discuss the importance of visibility and showcasing HR's value beyond just reactive measures. Key topics include enhancing employee engagement through transparency, effective communication around compensation, and building trust in hybrid work environments. Their insights inspire HR teams to take charge and demonstrate their impactful contributions.

Jul 25, 2024 • 54min
The AI Gold Rush and Talent Dynamics with Chris Vasquez of Quantum Talent
Chris Vasquez of The Quantum Talent Group discusses the AI talent market, challenges in hiring top talent, importance of diversity, and strategies for attracting skilled individuals. The podcast also explores the impact of AI on industries like finance and healthcare, the need for a diverse workforce, and the role of communication skills in the job market.

Jul 23, 2024 • 17min
PIPs and Forks
HR experts Kelli and Nolan dive into the controversial topic of Performance Improvement Plans (PIPs), debating their true purpose and effectiveness. They advocate for alternative approaches like the 'fork method,' focusing on communication and empowerment. The episode challenges traditional HR practices and offers insightful solutions for addressing performance issues in the workplace.

Jul 18, 2024 • 56min
Remote Work, Hiring Trends, and the Value of a College Diploma with Heather Doshay, Partner and Head of Talent at SignalFire
Heather Doshay, Partner and Head of Talent at SignalFire, discusses remote work trends, Gen Z job hopping, and the shift towards skills-based hiring. They explore the value of college degrees, AI in hiring, and challenges faced by HR leaders. The episode covers job requirements, work flexibility, and the impact of technology on job roles.

Jul 16, 2024 • 17min
Meta Cuts VP Roles
Exploring Meta's VP cuts and the future of big tech jobs; discussing the impact of bloated management structures, the evolving landscape of VP roles, and preparing for a changing job market; highlighting the significance of networking, strategy, and hands-on work in professional roles; and emphasizing the importance of generating ideas and expanding opportunities to enhance career outcomes.

Jul 11, 2024 • 53min
Talking Executive Search 2.0 with Nick Cromydas of Hunt Club: Equity, Severance, and Overvaluation
Nick Cromydas, CEO of Hunt Club, discusses revolutionizing executive search with technology and AI, negotiation points in executive compensation, transparency in hiring processes, challenges of overvaluation in tech companies, and strategic considerations in executive transactions.

Jul 9, 2024 • 37min
Is MEI the Anti DEI? with Colleen McCreary and David Hanrahan
Colleen McCreary from Ribbit Capital and David Hanrahan from Flare discuss the MEI stance at Scale AI and the backlash against DEI initiatives. They touch on Netflix's new culture deck and the importance of effective workforce planning, employee experience, AI in interviewing, and navigating DEI in the corporate world.
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