The self can be divided into different dimensions, such as conceptual and experiential aspects, and the posterior singulat is a key brain region involved in the experiential sense of self.
Cultivating moment-to-moment awareness involves a learning curve where initial resistance and confusion can transform into deep awareness, leading to a recognition of the primordially complete nature of the self.
Engaging in communion and letting go of expectations can lead to deep connections and the development of compassion, as individuals embrace the fluidity of life.
Deep dives
Dimensions of Self and Neuroscientific Findings
The group discusses the multi-dimensional nature of the self, drawing on neuroscientific research and Buddhist teachings. They explore how the self can be divided into different components and dimensions, such as conceptual and experiential aspects. The posterior singulat is identified as a key brain region involved in the experiential sense of self. The importance of recognizing the experiential self and its connection to contraction and expansion is highlighted as a pragmatic way to explore the deconstruction of the self.
The Learning Curve to Awareness
The group delves into the learning curve individuals go through when cultivating moment-to-moment awareness. They discuss how initial resistance and confusion can gradually transform into a deep state of awareness, where individuals develop the ability to observe the arising of mental processes before they fully manifest. The process of unclinging to thoughts, images, and emotions is found to contribute to a sense of spaciousness and fluidity in experience. This shift in perception can lead to a recognition of the primordially complete nature of the self.
Connection and Communion in Relationships
The conversation shifts towards the potential impact of self-dissolution experiences on relationships and communities. The idea of communion, applying concentration, clarity, and equanimity to something outside of oneself, is explored. The potential to dissolve rigid expectations of others and develop compassion through clear seeing is discussed. The group speculates about the natural development of kindness and deep connections when individuals let go of expectations and embrace the fluidity of life.
Understanding the experience of loosening thoughts during meditation
During a study on the default mode network and meditation, participants reported experiencing less stuck thoughts and increased fluidity in their thinking. This phenomenon, observed during brain scans, occurred even though participants were not aware of the purpose of the study. However, upon learning about the hypothesis of the study, some participants expressed interest in meditation and even started practicing it. The findings suggest that without a predetermined framework, individuals can have interesting experiences during meditation that can potentially lead to lasting changes.
Exploring the stickiness of the self and the role of equanimity
The self, characterized by its stickiness and grasping nature, can be seen as a push and pull between craving and aversion. However, some argue that these two aspects are interrelated, suggesting that equanimity could be the antidote to craving and aversion. Equanimity, which brings a sense of fluidity and non-grasping, can be cultivated through meditation practices. By targeting different aspects of the default mode network and other neural systems, researchers aim to induce equanimity and observe its impact on different dimensions of the self. The goal is to experimentally link subjective experiences with objective neural phenomena.
Dr Jud Brewer - pioneering psychiatrist, neuroscientist, and New York Times best-selling author - returns to once again join the ongoing conversation featuring:
- Shinzen Young, meditation teacher and neuroscience research consultant
- Chelsey Fasano, a Columbia University neuroscience student
- Dr Jay Sanguinetti, Assistant Director for the Center for Consciousness Studies and Research Professor at the University of New Mexico
In this episode, the group take a deep dive into concepts of the ‘Self’, comparing and contrasting religious models with the latest theories in neuroscience and psychology.
Shinzen rethinks Early Buddhist craving and aversion doctrines in the light of modern mathematics and Jud considers the clinical implications of neuro-modulation and psychedelics.
The group also discusses the typical learning curve to enlightenment, as well as the role of connection and communion in contemplative endeavours.
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Video version: www.guruviking.com/podcast/ep142-science-the-enlightened-self-brewer-shinzen-fasano-sanguinetti
Also available on Youtube, iTunes, & Spotify – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.
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Topics Include:
00:00 - Intro
01:05 - What is the self?
06:24 - DFN hubs of the self
09:13 - The multi-dimensional self
10:14 - 6-fold aspects of the self
12:58 - The experiential self and seeing through illusion
16:35 - Shinzen on mathematics, the self, and early Buddhist teachings
24:11 - Distinctions around dimensional analysis
31:03 - Clinical considerations and psychedelics
34:28 - Stickiness and surprising results of ultrasound neuro-modulation on meditators
37:45 - Different kinds of self-stickiness can be directly targeted by ultrasound
39:11 - Shinzen rethinks craving and aversion doctrines
47:00 - More on targeting self-clinging with ultrasound
48:32 - How to attain stream entry
55:09 - Jud on phase change and the ice cube analogy
01:00:22 - Typical learning curve to enlightenment
01:05:41 - Connection and communion
01:15:21 - Three important concepts for current and future meditation researchers
01:23:25 - Jud on his clinical observations
01:31:26 - A kinder, gentler B.F. Skinner
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Previous episodes in this series:
- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlkzlKFgdknxjhwG5wmXRVfrkeGczVPVI
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To find out more about Dr Brewer, visit:
- https://drjud.com/
- https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Judson-Brewer
To find out more about Shinzen, visit:
- https://www.guruviking.com/ep37-shinzen-young-pandemic-edition-guru-viking-podcast/
- www.shinzen.org
To find out more about Chelsey, visit:
- www.chelseyfasano.com
To find our more about Dr Sanguinetti, visit:
- https://www.guruviking.com/ep102-dr-jay-sanguinetti-cults-science-the-dalai-lama/
- https://www.jaysanguinetti.com/
For more interviews, videos, and more visit:
- www.guruviking.com
Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James
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