The Copywriter Club Podcast

It's a bit early to pick a best episode of 2020, but we predict this will be an early contender. Master copywriter, Stefan Georgi, joined us for the 171th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, to talk about how he became a copywriter who has helped his clients earn $700 million is sales. That is NOT a typo. Stefan is a terrific copywriter and this interview is practically a workshop on writing better sales letters. We talked about: •  the lucky poker game that turned Stefan into a copywriter •  how he landed his first two clients (and $300) 24 hours after calling himself a copywriter •  growing into clients and selling almost $700 million worth of products •  the crazy amount of work that earned Stefan $80K a month •  how he ended up writing 8 out of 10 of the top performing pages on click bank •  how he obsessed over the craft of copywriting (and what that involved) •  his favorite copywriting resource—we’ve included a link so you can get it too •  the RMBC method for writing a sales letters •  the genius way he breaks the “mechanism” into two parts that increases sales •  the different things you need to do with the lead of a sales page •  Stefan’s point-by-point script for a sales page that you can use when you write •  the most common mistakes copywriters make when writing a sales message •  the ROI escalation method and how Stefan uses it to justify his rates •  how his mindset has shifted as he’s grown in his business •  how he got his clients to recommend him to future clients •  how he balances his time writing for elite clients with time for his family You won't want to miss this one. To get it, download it to your favorite podcast app (or better yet, subscribe so you never miss an episode), click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: TCCIRL Warrior Forum ClickBank Software Projects The Fascinations Doc Stefan and Justin’s Mastermind Stefanpaulgeorgi.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob:   This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Club In Real Life, our live event in San Diego, this coming March 12th through 14th. You can get your tickets now at thecopywriterclub.com/tccirl. Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the Club for Episode 171 as we chat with copywriter Stefan Georgi about his approach to writing long copy, the ROI escalation ladder and how we can use it in our businesses, what it takes to write copy that produces $700 million in revenue over six years, and how he gets his clients to sell his services for him. Kira:   Welcome Stefan. Rob:   Hey, Stefan. Stefan:           Hey, guys. Thank you. It's great to be here. Kira:   Yeah, we're excited to have you here. We met you through Brian Kurtz, through the Titans Masterclass, and so, glad we can hang out today. And also you're going to be speaking at our event in March, which is really exciting. Stefan:           Yeah, I'm thrilled for that. I really appreciate you guys inviting me to come speak, but I cannot wait for that. Kira:   All right, so why don't we start off with your story? How did you end up as a copywriter? Stefan:           Yeah, so it's definitely one of those sort of funny twists of fate or things that are, it's a bit unexpected, I suppose you'd say. In 2011, I was teaching at an outdoor school in Marble Falls, Texas, which is about an hour and a half outside of Austin. And I was at this place called The Outdoor School, which was like a summer camp during the summer and a outdoor Ed type facility during the spring and the fall,

For the 170th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob do something they haven't done in awhile and that's chat about what's going on in their lives and The Copywriter Club. Plus, they talk about the most popular episodes of the podcast this year—and of all time. Both of them listed a few of their favorites from the past 12 months... if you haven't listened to all the past year's episodes, this is a great way to find a few you don't want to miss. Here's what they covered: •  what’s happening in our lives right now •  the goals we have for the coming year •  the amazing speaker line-up at The Copywriter Club In Real Life  •  what makes TCCIRL different from other conferences •  what you’ll walk away with if you come to the event •  another great resource for reaching your goals—The Copywriter Underground •  the new Underground Case Studies •  a few specifics about the print newsletter that goes out to all members •  the top podcasts from 2019—these are the most listened to episodes •  our favorite podcasts from the past year—and a few of our take aways You won't want to miss this one. Click the play button below to hear it now, or download episode 170 to your podcast app. Want to read it? Scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Club In Real Life Event The Copywriter Underground Case Study Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob:   This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Club In Real Life. our live event in San Diego this March 12th through the 14th. You can get your tickets now at thecopywriterclub.com/tccirl. Kira:   Hey, Rob. Rob:   Hey, Kira. Kira:   Happy 2020. Rob:   It's always a little awkward starting these when we don't write an intro for ourselves to read about ourselves. But this is an episode where we don't have a guest. We're just going to talk amongst ourselves. Yeah, let's do it. Happy 2020 to you, too. Kira:   Yeah, it's been a while since we've chatted and recorded it, even though we chat just about daily. So let's talk about some podcast episodes that were our favorites from 2019, some of the top most downloaded episodes, some of the ones that have resonated the most with us. But first, let's just catch up a bit. What's been new with you, Rob, since, I don't know, last time we recorded anything? I don't know what episode that was, but it's been a while. Rob:   It's definitely been a while since ... It's been even longer since just you and I talked. It's been a while since we had anything to talk- Kira:   It's been a year. Has it been a year? Rob:   Yeah, maybe. It's been a long time. So you would think that there would be some really big changes over the course of a year. I haven't done anything as exciting as, say, move, but this year is the first year that I am the only male person in my household. My oldest son is away to college and my youngest son is living in Phoenix on a mission. So the dynamic in my house has changed dramatically without any boys around. It's a lot quieter. Kira:   You're the only dude. Rob:   That's true. Kira:   How has it changed? How is it different at home? Rob:   It is a lot quieter. I miss my sons when they're not here. Obviously, my oldest son comes home from college quite a bit. And so, he's around. It's great having older children, but I definitely miss the rowdiness. I didn't ever think that I would, but I do. I miss the noise and the rowdiness. On the other hand, it's a lot quieter around here, and so I'm able to get more work done during the day. That is awesome. Kira:   Yeah, I'll send Henry. Henry can spend some time at your house if you need some extra rowdiness. He'll bring that. Rob:   I will take him any day. We can hang out and do Lego and whatever. So what big changes happened for you? Kira:   So the biggest change for me over the la...

Messaging expert Michelle Mazur joins Rob and Kira in the studio for the 169th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Michelle started her career as a speech consultant, then pivoted to talking about the 3 Word Rebellion and how a rallying cry can make your business more resilient. We talked about: •  how Michelle became a messaging coach and strategist •  what a “messaging strategist” actually does on a day-to-day basis •  how she lost her “why” and completely changed her business •  what a three-word rebellion is and why you need to start one •  a real world example how a “three-word rebellion” changes a business •  the process for creating your own rallying cry or •  the two things a good three-word rebellion (or positioning statement) does •  how to make a pivot in your business (and how to message it) •  how a three-word rebellion acts as a frame for speaking to your audience •  what Michelle has done to overcome the imposter complex •  her messaging advice to someone without her credentials •  what she would change about the marketing world •  how she met the perfect partner with a six minute discussion •  what’s next for Michelle in 2020 To hear Michelle's take on positioning your business in a way that attracts customers to your flag, click the play button below, or subscribe using your favorite podcast app. Or you can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Three Word Rebellion Jennie Nash Profit Without Worry Podcast Tanya Geisler Michelle’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway...

NPR Podcaster and story teller, Glynn Washington, was generous enough with his time to visit our studio and share his thoughts about podcasting, storytelling and the hustle required to make something great for the 168th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We love this interview. Here's a few of the things we talked about with Glynn: •  how (and why) he built a career as a podcaster and radio producer •  the reaction he got when he announced his intention to be a podcaster •  what he did to help his podcasts gain traction—it took a lot of hustle •  the very “untechnical” process he used to create his first podcast •  how he came to understand the power of a good story •  what makes a great story that you can’t help but stop and listen to •  how to introduce an unbelievable story and get listeners to lean in •  the question every storyteller needs to ask before sharing their story •  the important reason Glynn never tells you what the story means •  the magician’s trick he uses to get people to talk about the supernatural •  the real impact of the stories/experiences shared on his podcasts •  the impossibility of choosing the one story he was born to tell •  the thing Glynn wishes more podcasters would do today •  3+ things to do if you want to create your own great podcast •  the power of a podcast to move markets and create best-selling products •  what’s coming next year from Snap Judgment If you want to improve your story-telling prowess, you'll want to get this episode ASAP. Click the play button below to listen online or download this episode to your podcast app. Even better subscribe so you never miss an episode. Readers can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Snap Judgment Spooked Podcast Heaven’s Gate Podcast GarageBand Mark Twain Have You Heard George’s Podcast Scott Sigler Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Club In Real Life, our live event in San Diego March 12th through 14th, 2020. Get your tickets now at thecopywriterclub.com/TCCIRL. Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the club for episode 168 as we chat with media personality and radio podcast producer, Glynn Washington, about what it takes to tell a great story, the power of podcasting to connect with an audience, what most podcasters including us should be doing differently, and what it means to be a fist-shaker, mountain hollerer, and foot stomper. Kira:   So, Glynn, welcome. Glynn:            Thank you for having me. Kira:   All right. So, Glynn knows, because I've already e-mailed him and said, ‘I'm a super fan.’ So I have listened to every episode of Spooked, all three seasons of Spooked. So this is just a delight, to be able to talk to you about what happens behind the scenes and get to know more about you. Rob:   And I want to add, I listened to all of the episodes of the Heaven’s Gate podcast, as well as several of the Spooked episodes. So- Kira:   So we're both super fans. Rob:   We're big fans of what you've done, Glynn. Glynn:            Well, I'm so glad you dug it. And I appreciate you having me on the show today. And I hope, I'm sorry, we had a bit of a flood, here, so I'm in a weird setting. So I'm hoping the sounds works for you right now. Rob:   Yeah, it's working great. It sounds really good. Kira:   All right, Glynn. So let's start with your story. How did you end up as a storyteller, podcaster, executive producer, and host of Snap Judgment and my favorite podcast, Spooked? Glynn:            Well,

Copywriter Andrea Littell is the guest for the 167th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. As we've gotten to know Andrea over the past year and learned more about her accomplishments and struggles, it was obvious we needed to have her join us to talk about her business. This discussion covers a lot of ground, including: •  her experience as the “go to” person for marketing and copywriting •  why she started a blog—Townies—and what it did for her business •  how she attracted attention without a plan or a press kit •  why she put her blog on pause and what she’s doing now •  how to prepare for personal difficulties when you’re the provider •  the place budgeting and knowing your numbers has in your business •  how Andrea manages the money in her business •  the power of consistency to earn grace from clients when you need it •  how to keep the right mindset when everything falls apart •  why more money isn’t always the goal for Andrea’s business •  working with an agency as a freelancer and the works she does •  the thing that matters more than talent when freelancing •  her advice to other freelancers who are starting out •  what her business looks like today and the kinds of projects she takes on now •  boundaries and how she makes space for her family and personal time •  the thing that has made the biggest difference in her success so far •  how to prepare your biz for a maternity (or paternity) leave To hear the wisdom that Andrea shared, click the play button below, or download this episode to your podcast app. And you can always scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Townies The Copywriter Think Tank Andrea’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway...

Online Business Manager, Ashlee Berghoff, is our guest for the 166th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Ashlee has helped a bunch of copywriters we know and like figure out how to make their businesses more profitable... and just as importantly, helped them focus on the work they are best at (while shifting other work to a VA or OBM). That sounded like something we needed to hear more about. So we asked Ashee about ..... •  how she became an independent business manager/COO for copywriters •  the 10 months she spent working to prevent human trafficking at IJM •  when you should get help in your copywriting business •  the different kinds of VAs and other help you might consider hiring •  some examples of how she works with copywriters to grow •  the systems she helps her clients develop as they start working together •  the importance of discipline as you set up processes in your biz •  what it really costs to work with an integrator versus a VA (and what you get) •  the easiest systems to build that almost everyone needs right now •  the return on investment when you spend money on a VA or OBM •  the true cost of doing the work that others could be doing for less •  how to keep your VA relationship from falling apart •  some of the problems you should anticipate to keep the relationship working •  where to find the best VAs… the answer may surprise you •  what you need to put into a contract versus email •  how to deal with problems when thing inevitably go wrong •  the tools Ashlee uses in her business If you have a sneaky suspicion that your business could be doing better and that you need help to make that happen, you'll want to listen to this episode now. Click the play button below or subscribe using your favorite podcast app. Or scroll down to read a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: International Justice Mission Global Fund to End Modern Slavery Rocketfuel Angie Colie April Dykman Asana Jira Asquaredonline.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira:   What if you're going to hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or  two  to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the Club for Episode 166 as we chat with business integrator Ashlee Berghoff about how to know when you're ready to bring in help for your business, the systems and processes copywriters need to grow, practical ways copywriters can expand their capacity and exactly what a VA or OBM can help you do in your business. Kira:   Welcome, Ashlee. Rob:   Hey Ashlee. Ashlee:          Thank you so much for inviting me. It's wonderful to be here. Kira:   Yes, we're excited to have you here because you worked with, I don't know- Rob:   Everybody. Kira:   ...six to eight, maybe even more copywriters. You don't have to name drop all the copywriters, but you've worked with a lot of well-known, successful copywriters that we've hung out with and we know really well too. So, we'll get a behind the scenes look at the type of work that you're doing with them. But before we dig into that, let's start with your story. How did you end up as an integrator, OBM? I know there are multiple titles for it. Yes, how did this all happen? Ashlee:          Yes, so I think as is the case for so many people, it was not a straight line at all. I actually graduated with an English degree and no idea what to do with my life. And in my first major job, I ended up in the Philippines actually working as kind of a de facto recruiter for an anti-trafficking field office there, did that for about 10 months, built out their recruiting program from scratch, which was really fun for me, but I didn't know why,

This one is wild. We invited Drayton Bird (who knew and worked with some of the original mad men) to join us for the 165th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Drayton has been around the world of advertising and direct marketing since the 1960s and he has the stories to prove it. As we talked, it occurred to us that if Drayton wasn't the inspiration for The Most Interesting Man in the World, he probably should have been. We asked Drayton about: •  what happened to him the last time he went to San Diego •  how he became a successful copywriter—it’s not about creativity •  how he spent his teen-age years and why he carried 2 library cards •  Why he couldn’t choose a niche when he started writing •  the one thing Drayton says you need to be a good copywriter •  the intriguing letter he sent to David Ogilvy that got an immediate reply •  the 7 big lessons he learned from David Ogilvy •  whether being interesting is something we are or something we become •  some of the questions he asks to get better creative work •  the legacy he has built and the story he shares in his latest book •  the bizarre thing his mother saw his father doing in their living room •  the time a stripper nearly killed him hitting him in the face with a plate •  the Maori princess who broke his heart when she ran off with a Swedish lawyer •  his parents’ crazy, loving and destructive relationship •  the advice he got from a Polish Count that saved Drayton’s life •  what you need to think about constantly if you really want to be really good at copy Like we said, this one is different from any other interview we've done. You won't want to miss it. Click the play button below to listen (or download the episode to your favorite podcast player), or scroll down to read a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The VW Snowplow Ad David Ogilvy Ogilvy on Advertising Drayton’s Biography (read this page) Drayton's Book Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Club, In Real Life, our live event in San Diego, March 12th through 14th. Get your tickets now at thecopywriterclub.com/tccirl. Rob:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira:   You're invited to join the club for episode 165 as we chat with one of the original Mad Men, copywriter Drayton Bird about his place among the original Mad Men of advertising, what all copywriters need to master to make their writing better, getting stabbed three times and surviving, and the good advice he got from a Polish count many years ago. Rob:   Hey Drayton. Kira:   Welcome Drayton. Drayton:        Nice to talk to you. And I'll tell you something. I got involved in my most sad most expensive marriage to one of the ladies who did have a go at sticking a knife in me. Well, she didn't ever go, she didn't stick a knife in me,  because I was in San Diego. It was all your fault. I'd been doing a speech in Los Angeles and afterward, I went with some friends and we made our way down the coast staying somewhere terribly expensive. I can't remember. And then we went to San Diego Zoo and had one or two drinks and my friends said, ‘Let's go down to Mexico.’ And so we went down to the Mexican border to a dangerous town. I think, I believe one of the most dangerous places in Mexico. And that's where I got married as a result of being intoxicated. Kira:   That's a romantic, romantic story. Rob:   So are you telling us you're not going to come to San Diego for our event? Is that what you're saying here? Too dangerous? Drayton:        Can't afford to come twice. Tijuana,

Want to get better at copy? Copywriter and author, Glenn Fisher, joined us for the 164th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast to talk about how he became a copywriter and how he rapidly improved his skills. Today, Glenn teaches other how to start and get better at copywriting on his podcast, in speeches, and in his book. We asked Glenn about: •  how copywriting overtook his dream of becoming a bank manager •  pitching everyone in London before finding his first job •  what he learned from his early mentors that helped him most •  Glenn’s process for finding (and testing out) a great idea •  the difference between the UK and the USA when it comes to ideas •  the lessons he took away from his Tony Robbins experience •  whether or not copy and advertising can change a person’s beliefs •  the no-secret, “secrets” Glenn has used to grow his skill set •  what his business looks like and how he spends his time •  the catalyst for writing his book and the process he followed •  what he would do differently if he were rewriting his book again •  what the book has done to build his credibility and why that’s NOT enough •  what he struggles with in his business today •  what he would do if he lost everything and had to start over from scratch •  why other copywriters aren’t your competition We also asked Glenn about the future of copywriting and where marketing is headed right now. To hear this interview, click the play button below, or download the episode to your favorite podcast app. Or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Agora Tony Robbins The End of America Alex Mandossian AWAI Proust The Art of the Click Mary Ellen Tribby Kate Toon All Good Copy Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Club, In Real Life, our live event in San Diego, March 12th through 14th. Get your tickets now at thecopywriterclub.com/tccirl. Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the Club for episode 164 as we chat with copywriter and podcaster Glenn Fisher about becoming a direct-response copywriter and writing a book about it, what it takes to write good copy, his writing processes, mistakes he's made, and what he thinks the future of copywriting looks like. Kira:   Welcome, Glenn. Rob:   Hi, Glenn. Glenn:            Hello. Thanks for having me. Kira:   So, let's kick this off with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter/author/speaker? Let's hear your story. Glenn:            Cool. So, yeah, we'll break it down into parts. As is the case with most copywriters, I got into it completely by mistake. I think I've spoken to you about one out of a thousand copywriters who went, ‘I'm going to be a copywriter.’ I started out as an accountant, which was an obvious mistake, but I did that for a few years and so I wanted to be a bank manager. I've never met anyone else who, as a 15-year-old kid, wanted to be a bank manager, but that's what I wanted to do. And I was going along on that path for a while until something snapped in my brain and went wrong, or maybe right, depending on which way you look at it, and I figured I wanted to do writing in some form. So, I ended up... I knew I couldn't just walk into a job and go, ‘Hey, I'm a writer now. Hope you might employ me,’ so I went back to uni. I was probably 22-ish, something around that mark. Went back to uni and did a creative writing course, a degree, here in England. I did that and then I come from a very small town in the Northeast of England where they barely can read, let alone write,

Email copywriter Sarah Henson is our guest for the 163rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We first met Sarah a couple of years ago (at a copywriter conference) and have seen her make big changes in her business in the past year as a member of The Copywriter Think Tank. We asked Sarah about her successes, her struggles and how she's pushed herself to accomplish more—even as she's faced some big challenges in her life and business. We talked about: •  Sarah's career path from actress to coach to email tech to copywriter •  her experience as an actress and how it helps her as a writer •  the “method actor” approach to understanding customers •  owning the title of copywriter and how she made the switch •  how she chose her niche (or how it chose her) •  some of the hurdles Sarah’s overcome on her way to the next level •  the big goals she’s set and what she wants to accomplish next •  what keeps her going especially when she struggles to make things work •  the mindset shift she’s experienced over the past 10 months •  a breakdown of the work she did to hit $11K in a single month •  comparison-itis and how Sarah has made sure it won’t hold her back •  struggles with balance and how to fit it all in •  the difference a community or mastermind can make in business •  what she’s building in her business right now To get this one in your ear holes, click the play button below. To make sure you never miss an episode, subscribe on your favorite podcast app. And to read a full transcript,  scroll down the page a bit.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts and ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira:   You're invited to join the club for episode 163 as we chat with email strategist and e-commerce copywriter, Sarah Henson, about the struggle of freelancing and having her biggest revenue month ever, building an effective email strategy, what she's done to take her business to the next level, and how her past life as an actor has made her a better copywriter. Welcome, Sarah. Sarah:            Hey. Rob:   Hi, Sarah. Sarah:            Hey there. Kira:   Great to have you here. Sarah. Let's just kick this off with your story. How did you end up in e-commerce and as an email strategist and a copywriter? Sarah:            Well, it's kind of a convoluted story, which I think pretty much everybody who's been on your podcast says it's been a bit of a weaving tale, but to me, yeah, you touched on it, that I was an actress for about 12 years. And when I say actress, it's not like I was super famous or anything like that. I was in the trenches, doing all of the auditions here, there and everywhere, getting gigs every now and again, but for 12 years, I was constantly going towards my goal and always getting little jobs here and there that just kept me going and kept me fueled all the time. But then, as I got into my 30s, things started to change, and my priorities changed. I met someone and we ended up getting married and having children and the life of an actor going for auditions all the time and being available for tours and gigs and things like that is not really conducive to life as a mother, so I decided that it was high time that I had to kind of switch gears. And I actually ended up starting my own actors’ agency, because I knew a lot of what goes on in the industry and how it works and everything. And I thought I could be really helpful to help other actors to get work. So, I started an agency. I ran that for about three years.

Leadership coach, Tanya Geisler, is our guest for the 162nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. It's been more than 2 years since we spoke to Tanya last (all about the Imposter Complex) and we thought it was time to check back in and see what other issues she could help us deal with. And we're glad we did. We asked Tanya about: •  what’s changed since we talked to her 2 years ago •  the behaviors that hold us back from accomplishing our mission •  the difference between anxiety, criticism and imposter complex—and why it matters •  how our deeply held values sometimes hold us back (and real world examples of how that works) •  the unshakeable confidence framework •  how to take ownership of what is holding us back so we can make progress •  overcoming the lies of the imposter complex (it’s not a linear process) •  how to find our own brand(s) of joy •  Tanya workshopped this a bit for Rob a bit while we talked •  what happens when we have the wrong perception of our brand of joy •  Tanya and Kira talked through her “word” and why Kira didn’t like it at first •  what you can do to figure this stuff out for yourself •  how to choose a coach who will help you become a better version of yourself •  how copywriters can take on the role of a leader We also asked Tanya about how someone can work with her and her thoughts about the future of copywriting and online marketing. To hear what she said about all of the above, click the play button below or download this episode to your favorite podcast player. Rather read what she said? Then scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Our first interview with Tanya (47) TanyaGeisler.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the club for episode 162, as we chat for a second time with leadership coach Tanya Geisler, about what she's been doing since our last interview more than two years ago, the importance of embracing joy, building unshakable confidence, what to look for when you're hiring a coach and the thing that separates those who reach their full potential from those who don't. Kira:   Welcome, Tanya. Rob:   Hey Tanya. Tanya:           Hey. I'm so happy to be here, and honored. Thank you both so much. Kira:   Yeah, we're very excited to have you back for a second time. Your interview, number 47, is one of my favorite interviews on this entire show and I think just surprised both of us just with the impact it's had in the copywriter community after we talked about the impostor complex and dug into that. So we'll definitely link to that conversation, but we want to know really like what you've been up to since then over the last two years. So we can talk about a lot of what you're teaching and talking about today. Tanya:           Oh, what I've been doing in the last two years? I can tell you what I've been doing today, but the last two years, Oh my goodness. I've been doing a lot of speaking. I've been doing a lot of deepening into this body of work that I've been called to really understand. I've created a framework from which I'm really understanding the impostor complex, and I launched my own podcast called Ready Enough, which is really looking at all of the places perfectionism and gets up in our grill and insists that we do things perfectly right. But really it's also about taking the conversation about the impostor complex and getting under when it might not be the impostor complex, because I've spent so much time, I think I might've even said this in our interview two years ago,