TCC Podcast #165: The Most Interesting Man in the World with Drayton Bird

This one is wild. We invited Drayton Bird (who knew and worked with some of the original mad men) to join us for the 165th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Drayton has been around the world of advertising and direct marketing since the 1960s and he has the stories to prove it. As we talked, it occurred to us that if Drayton wasn't the inspiration for The Most Interesting Man in the World, he probably should have been. We asked Drayton about: •  what happened to him the last time he went to San Diego •  how he became a successful copywriter—it’s not about creativity •  how he spent his teen-age years and why he carried 2 library cards •  Why he couldn’t choose a niche when he started writing •  the one thing Drayton says you need to be a good copywriter •  the intriguing letter he sent to David Ogilvy that got an immediate reply •  the 7 big lessons he learned from David Ogilvy •  whether being interesting is something we are or something we become •  some of the questions he asks to get better creative work •  the legacy he has built and the story he shares in his latest book •  the bizarre thing his mother saw his father doing in their living room •  the time a stripper nearly killed him hitting him in the face with a plate •  the Maori princess who broke his heart when she ran off with a Swedish lawyer •  his parents’ crazy, loving and destructive relationship •  the advice he got from a Polish Count that saved Drayton’s life •  what you need to think about constantly if you really want to be really good at copy Like we said, this one is different from any other interview we've done. You won't want to miss it. Click the play button below to listen (or download the episode to your favorite podcast player), or scroll down to read a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The VW Snowplow Ad David Ogilvy Ogilvy on Advertising Drayton’s Biography (read this page) Drayton's Book Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Club, In Real Life, our live event in San Diego, March 12th through 14th. Get your tickets now at thecopywriterclub.com/tccirl. Rob:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira:   You're invited to join the club for episode 165 as we chat with one of the original Mad Men, copywriter Drayton Bird about his place among the original Mad Men of advertising, what all copywriters need to master to make their writing better, getting stabbed three times and surviving, and the good advice he got from a Polish count many years ago. Rob:   Hey Drayton. Kira:   Welcome Drayton. Drayton:        Nice to talk to you. And I'll tell you something. I got involved in my most sad most expensive marriage to one of the ladies who did have a go at sticking a knife in me. Well, she didn't ever go, she didn't stick a knife in me,  because I was in San Diego. It was all your fault. I'd been doing a speech in Los Angeles and afterward, I went with some friends and we made our way down the coast staying somewhere terribly expensive. I can't remember. And then we went to San Diego Zoo and had one or two drinks and my friends said, ‘Let's go down to Mexico.’ And so we went down to the Mexican border to a dangerous town. I think, I believe one of the most dangerous places in Mexico. And that's where I got married as a result of being intoxicated. Kira:   That's a romantic, romantic story. Rob:   So are you telling us you're not going to come to San Diego for our event? Is that what you're saying here? Too dangerous? Drayton:        Can't afford to come twice. Tijuana, that was where it was. I remember I was driving into Tijuana. No, I looked on the left on the side, it said that you can get married immediately. I was on the right-hand side going on. And on the left-hand side, it said divorce within 24 hours. I thought, ‘What can I possibly lose?’ And I said to this lady, who is actually the widow of my best friend who had killed himself. Well, that's another story. I said, ‘Let's get married.’ And she said, ‘You're kidding.’ I said, ‘No.’ I said, ‘This is a limited time offer.’ I said, ‘You've got to make up your mind before six o'clock.’ So she said, ‘What can we use for a ring’ And I said, ‘You can use the ring of Martin,’ who was my best friend, who had been her husband who killed himself. And then she said, ‘What should we wear? What should I wear?’ I didn't bother about what I was wearing. I don't know whether you've ever tried to shop some Tijuana, looking for something really elegant, but it's not easy. Rob:   Yeah, there's a lot of stuff. Drayton:        She finally found something and we got married there. There and then. And I would say that it costs me overall in the region of about 3 million pounds that evening. Rob:   Wow. Kira:   Oh, my goodness. Drayton:        But you really want to talk about copywriting, don't you? It's so much more interesting than people... Kira:   Well, we want to talk about copywriting and we also want to talk about everything else too and getting stabbed and everything else you've included in your book. But let's start with your story. How did you end up as the top direct marketer and a copywriter? Let's start there. Drayton:        I don't know. I think maybe it's perhaps ... If you hang around for long enough, everyone else dies. I think I did reasonably well because before I even became a copywriter, I'd written for a magazine for a while, so I knew how to write. And I think I was helped by the fact that unlike practically everyone I can make out in this business, I wanted to study. And even before I started my first copywriting job, I'd started reading a lot of books about advertising and particularly books written by people who made lots of money or 40 or 50 years before then. I remember reading a fantastic book by a guy who did all the marketing for the international correspondence schools, which if you read it today, would still teach you a lot. I don't think it's so much talent, it's just study. I don't think people study enough. I think that they think, ‘Oh, I'm going to be creative,’ and they go around trying to be creative. This is a big mistake. The first thing to do, if you want to write anything any good, be a copywriter or anything else, is to be sure about what you want to say, not to say, ‘I'm going to be creative.’ Drayton:        And you can start by being creative and you can end up anywhere. It might be relevant or not. If you start by doing the right thing, you may end up being creative. It doesn't work the other way around. You first, you're looking for the right idea and then you worry about how to express it. Whereas a lot of people nowadays, and this has always been true, start by trying to do something clever and then the idea will fit in with whatever the hell they're trying to sell. I think that was one reason I did okay. I think the second reason is I was extremely well read, quite young in my routines. Even before that I used to belong to the local public library. And you could only take out three books in a day. I used to read more than three books in a day. So I joined another library. Sometimes I'll read four books a day. I spent a lot of my teenage years reading, reading, reading, reading. And very often reading the kind of things, which you got nothing whatsoever to do with copywriting. But nobody knew what a copywriting was then. I was brought up in a pub in Manchester, outside Manchester. And my father told his cronies in the bar, ‘My son Drayton just got this amazing job. Paid more money than he could believe.’ Copywriting, nobody knew what it was. Nobody knew what it was. What is copywriting? What does he copy? It really wasn't known as a skill. I think also, if you want to be good at anything, you have to be confronted with a lot of challenges. And nowadays, everyone is crazy about digital. They're all talking about digital. I always think of the digital swine running over the cliff. The first four jobs I got in the agency I joined, which took a lot of effort to get into, were all different. One was a piece of direct mail to sell some machinery. One was to sell a local restaurant or a chain of local restaurants. The other two were again, entirely different. I can't remember exactly what they were, one was direct mail, one was an advertisement, one was a salesman’s organizer. The salesman organizer is something that a salesman takes round with him to remind himself of what he's got to say to the customer. Those are the three I can remember. You were expected to be able to do anything. It wasn't regarded as I just do so and so, I just do financial services. I had to do everything. I don't think you can be in any way remarkable unless you have really faced all the challenges and all the media that are open to services. I was lucky in the sense that I had that challenge. And I think a lot of people now specialize in what in English we call niches [neeshes] and in American they're sometimes called niches [nitches]. So I think those are some of the reasons. I think reading a far wider range of things I believe than most people do was a great help. I think I'm particularly fascinated and was fascinated then and still fascinated by 18th and 17th and 16th century writers. People of the same before Shakespeare, after Shakespeare, particularly into the 18th century. I also remember reading Winston Churchill's biography of the Duke of Marlborough who is his ancestor. Three very heavy volumes. I read everything. David Ogilvy was once asked,