TCC Podcast #162: Finding Your Brand of Joy with Tanya Geisler

Leadership coach, Tanya Geisler, is our guest for the 162nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. It's been more than 2 years since we spoke to Tanya last (all about the Imposter Complex) and we thought it was time to check back in and see what other issues she could help us deal with. And we're glad we did. We asked Tanya about: •  what’s changed since we talked to her 2 years ago •  the behaviors that hold us back from accomplishing our mission •  the difference between anxiety, criticism and imposter complex—and why it matters •  how our deeply held values sometimes hold us back (and real world examples of how that works) •  the unshakeable confidence framework •  how to take ownership of what is holding us back so we can make progress •  overcoming the lies of the imposter complex (it’s not a linear process) •  how to find our own brand(s) of joy •  Tanya workshopped this a bit for Rob a bit while we talked •  what happens when we have the wrong perception of our brand of joy •  Tanya and Kira talked through her “word” and why Kira didn’t like it at first •  what you can do to figure this stuff out for yourself •  how to choose a coach who will help you become a better version of yourself •  how copywriters can take on the role of a leader We also asked Tanya about how someone can work with her and her thoughts about the future of copywriting and online marketing. To hear what she said about all of the above, click the play button below or download this episode to your favorite podcast player. Rather read what she said? Then scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Our first interview with Tanya (47) TanyaGeisler.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the club for episode 162, as we chat for a second time with leadership coach Tanya Geisler, about what she's been doing since our last interview more than two years ago, the importance of embracing joy, building unshakable confidence, what to look for when you're hiring a coach and the thing that separates those who reach their full potential from those who don't. Kira:   Welcome, Tanya. Rob:   Hey Tanya. Tanya:           Hey. I'm so happy to be here, and honored. Thank you both so much. Kira:   Yeah, we're very excited to have you back for a second time. Your interview, number 47, is one of my favorite interviews on this entire show and I think just surprised both of us just with the impact it's had in the copywriter community after we talked about the impostor complex and dug into that. So we'll definitely link to that conversation, but we want to know really like what you've been up to since then over the last two years. So we can talk about a lot of what you're teaching and talking about today. Tanya:           Oh, what I've been doing in the last two years? I can tell you what I've been doing today, but the last two years, Oh my goodness. I've been doing a lot of speaking. I've been doing a lot of deepening into this body of work that I've been called to really understand. I've created a framework from which I'm really understanding the impostor complex, and I launched my own podcast called Ready Enough, which is really looking at all of the places perfectionism and gets up in our grill and insists that we do things perfectly right. But really it's also about taking the conversation about the impostor complex and getting under when it might not be the impostor complex, because I've spent so much time, I think I might've even said this in our interview two years ago, that for me I'm like, I used to say that I'm like the Greek father in My Big Fat Greek Wedding and I can bring everything back to the imposter complex and over the speaking of the doing and the deepening of the doing with my work, I really, sometimes it's not the impostor complex. Sometimes it's a fear of fat phobia or transphobia or it's racism, it's systemic issues that are at play. So I'm really trying to be much more nuanced about it, and continuing to dig into what we do about the impostor complex when it shows up. That's what I've been up to. Rob:   Well, let's dig into that just a little bit and we don't need to rehash the discussion we had on imposter complex because that was already a great interview and you walked us through all of the ways that that can show up in our lives and some of the tools that we need to have in our toolbox in order to deal with it. But can we go a little bit deeper on some of these other things related to perfectionism that are keeping us from showing up and doing the work that we should be doing? Tanya:           Absolutely. So the only thing that I'll say just from imposter complex 101, is that it has three really specific objectives, I should say, it wants to keep you out of action, it wants to have you doubt your capacity and it wants to keep you alone and isolated. So the whole setup of the imposter complex is to do one of those three things or sometimes all of those three things. And so it functions, so when we want to avoid feeling like the impostor, we might go to one of six specific behavioral traits. That's perfectionism. That's procrastination, that's leaked boundaries, that's people pleasing. It's diminishment and it's comparison. And so this is, all have our own particular blends and cocktails of how we try to avoid feeling like the impostor, but it's typically going to be one of those behaviors. That's where we're going to be hiding out. And so, and again, each one of those is going to be, again, trying to keep you out of action, dead in your capacity or alone and isolated. So I think it's just really helpful to know which one is your particular blend that you go to, to avoid feeling like the impostor. And then when we know that, then we have more of a fighting chance of extracting ourselves from it or popping back out or having sort of sea anemone, sort of shrink back response that when it shows up, we can go, Oh, okay, I understand what's happening and then I can bounce back. Does that make sense? Rob:   Totally makes sense. Yeah. And you're the first person to mention a sea anemone on the podcast. So 162 episodes to get there. Tanya:           162 episodes. All right. Kira:   You're good like that. Tanya:           This could be the last line. Like you guys are done. Rob:   Yup, we've hit full vocabulary. Whatever it is. Kira:   So Tanya, when you, you were mentioning your body of work and that you've just continued to dive deeper into it. So over the last, let's say again, over the last two years, what has surprised you as you continue to get deeper into your work and work with more clients and speak more and get more feedback from the outside and your community? What has surprised you and even, you said that you found that some of these issues are not the impostor complex. Can you talk more about that too? Maybe it's related. Tanya:           Yeah. Well, let's just say this. If you study or if you follow anybody who does deep work in anxiety, you'll hear, when they talk about anxiety. Anxiety really tries to keep you out of action. Want's you to doubt your capacity, and wants you to feel alone and isolated. So that's looks and smells an awful like what I would have painted the impostor complex with, with a pretty wide brush stroke, in the past. Or if somebody is dealing with, they feel they are attacked by fat phobic people. Same thing, you're going to go to, you're going to keep out of action to at your capacity and feel alone and isolated. And so one of the things that I've been paying a lot of attention to is, are these behavioral traits, this procrastination, perfectionism, leaky boundaries, people pleasing diminishment and comparison. Because some of these, let me just say this, I'm going to step aside with for a minute and say that, these behavioral traits, it's really easy to go and say like, stop procrastinating and don't be a perfectionist, and like get over people pleasing. But the truth of the matter is, is just like our own inner critics. There is a nugget of truth or there's a nugget of gold I would say in the context of these behavioral traits. So if you are somebody who diminishes, then you might have a really strong value of humility. Your value of people pleasing, or if you're a people pleaser, maybe you're just really concerned about being super inclusive. If you've got boundaries that are pretty leaky, it might have everything to do with the fact that you are deeply generous and generosity is really important to you. So again, I just like, I want to bring in lots more discernment and nuance to the conversation because I do think that in a lot of self-development spaces, it's like perfectionism is the enemy. Well actually perfectionism is the very thing that has helped you to grow your capacity as an artist, as a copywriter, as a leader. And it's not a problem until it becomes a problem. And so it's that kind of, that edge that I'm really paying a lot of attention to. People pleasing isn't just about inclusivity, for folks who've been marginalized. It's actually an instrument of survival. So I just think that like we need to hold the perspective with a lot more care. So if you tend to be somebody who procrastinates, I don't want you to berate yourself. I want you to go, okay, this has served me to a degree. Now where is it problematic? Where do I need to spend a little bit of attention? Where do I need to pay a bit more attention?