The GTM Pack Show

Pricing GenAI products is not “seats + shrug” anymore. In this episode of #TheGTMPack, host Justin Dorfman digs into AI pricing and packaging with Michael Hoy, Co-Founder & CEO of Atlas - the billing infrastructure purpose-built for AI-native SaaS. We cover why seat-based breaks for AI, how to design hybrid pricing (subscription + usage/credits), what “outcome-based” could look like, and practical steps to price v1 of your product today.What you’ll learn:-Why seat-based pricing fails for AI agents and automation-How to structure hybrid models (base subscription + usage/credits)-Managing variable COGS (model calls) without killing margins-Buyer predictability: minimums, maximums, tiers & rollover-PLG to sales-led handoffs using credits/pay-as-you-go-A 3-point framework to find your first price: customers, internal ROI math, market comps-Examples to study (Snowflake, cloud compute, leading AI apps)Chapters:00:00 Intro & why pricing AI is hard02:45 What Atlas is (billing infra + pricing agent)06:10 Why seat-based breaks for AI09:20 Variable costs & margin protection10:45 Hybrid pricing done right15:00 Credits: where they help (and where they confuse)17:50 Enterprise predictability: floors, caps, tiers20:30 Who’s doing it well & what to copy21:50 How to price your v1 (3 data points)24:30 Pricing as differentiation in crowded markets26:00 Resources & who to follow30:30 Follow-up by AssetMule: early pricing thoughtsGuest:Michael Hoy, Co-Founder & CEO, Atlas — billing infrastructure with an AI pricing & packaging agent for AI-enabled SaaS.Resources mentionedMetronome: State of AI Pricing reportKyle Poyer (Tidemark) on AI/SaaS pricing & GTMManny Medina (PAID) on modern pricing motionsAtlas “20 live AI pricing examples” resourceFollow-up by AssetMule (AI that turns sales call transcripts into personalized Digital Sales Rooms)Try the productsAtlas (AI-native billing + pricing agent): [runonatlas.com]Follow-up by AssetMule (Digital Sales Rooms from transcripts): [https://www.gofollowup.ai/]About the show#TheGTMPack is for founders, product marketers, and AEs who want practical GTM, pricing, and sales enablement tactics—no fluff.Connect:Michael on LinkedIn (look for the 🚀): https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelthoy/Atlas: [runonatlas.com]Justin / #TheGTMPack: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justindorfman87/If this helped, hit 👍, subscribe, and drop your AI pricing questions in the comments - we’ll cover them in a follow-up episode.

Cold email is burning out, social is noisy, and buyers don’t follow a neat demo → proposal → close path anymore. In this episode, Jorge Soto sits down with Braydan Young (Co-Founder of Sendoso, now CEO at Slash Experts) to unpack a better way to build pipeline: make the invisible pipeline visible by connecting prospects with real customers early—not just at the end of a deal. We dig into why peer-to-peer validation beats glossy case studies, where to insert references in your buyer journey, how this cuts churn and accelerates land-and-expand, and how first-party conversation data becomes a long-term moat.Guest: Braydan YoungHost: Jorge SotoLearn more: https://slashexperts.comWhat you’ll learn:-Why cold email deliverability & webinars aren’t filling calendars like they used to-How to surface the invisible pipeline of peer conversations happening off your radar-The simple play: move references to top of funnel (or immediately post-demo)-Using customer connections to reduce churn & power land-and-expand-Founder lessons from zero → one (process, tooling, and staying insanely organized)-Balancing “build for now” with a 5–10 year data moat + LLM strategyChapters:00:00 Intro & history00:32 What’s changed in pipeline building01:33 The invisible pipeline (peer-to-peer proof)03:44 Put references before the demo05:07 Beyond glossy case studies: buyers want real talk06:42 Churn reduction & land-and-expand use cases08:30 Starting from zero again—Sendoso → Slash Experts lessons10:18 Founder learning loops & discovery mistakes14:18 Now vs 5–10 year vision (fundraising balance)15:14 First-party data as a moat (LLMs, insights)18:38 Humans still buy from humans19:59 Advice for early sales leaders (talk to everyone, get organized)21:03 Where to find Slash ExpertsLinks & ResourcesSlash Experts: https://slashexperts.com (hit Experts to talk to real customers)Braydan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/braydanyoung/Jorge on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/startupjorge/Gear this episode helpsB2B founders, CROs, product marketers, AEs, and anyone trying to build pipeline without burning their domain or budget.

Product marketers are going solo in record numbers. In this #TheGTMPack episode, host Justin Dorfman sits down with Adam Smith (aka Adam Anthony Smith) to unpack what it really takes to build a successful product marketing consulting practice - from deciding to go independent, to pricing, standing out in a crowded market, and balancing delivery with biz dev.If you’re a PMM eyeing fractional work (or already juggling clients), this one’s packed with hard-won, practical advice.What you’ll learnHow a non-linear path (design agencies to adtech to Web3) builds PMM superpowersWhen to make the jump to consulting - and what to expect in year onePricing & rate-setting: where to get real benchmarks (without race-to-the-bottom sites)Standing out: why referrals over awards, and how to earn themCapacity management: time-blocking, context switching, and saying “not now”Tools & stack: time-tracking, AI for competitive intel/org charts, and simple ops that scaleChapters00:00 Intro & why PMMs are going fractional00:43 Adam’s path: design to agencies to PMM03:20 Agency lessons that translate to PMM06:30 Web3/Coinme & the leap to consulting08:24 Making the jump: risks, mindset, Plan B10:52 Skills that matter: adaptability, empathy, compartmentalizing12:35 Pricing & communities to benchmark rates15:59 Stand out with referrals (not awards)18:21 Time-blocking & protecting delivery time20:59 Keep the pipeline warm without burning out22:57 Tools: Toggl/Hubstaff, ChatGPT/Claude/Perplexity24:55 Where to connect with Adam + he’s taking new projects25:24 Shoutouts & closeTools & resources mentionedTime tracking: Toggl, HubstaffAI helpers: ChatGPT, Claude, PerplexityCommunities: LinkedIn groups for fractionals, relevant subreddits & Telegram groups (esp. Web3)Connect with Adam🔗 LinkedIn: search “Adam Anthony Smith” https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamanthonysmith/ShoutoutsElise, Hattie the PMM, and Zach Roberts all making waves in the PMM world.—If you enjoyed this, hit Subscribe and drop a comment with your biggest question about going fractional as a PMM.#ProductMarketing #FractionalPMM #Consulting #B2BMarketing #GTM #TheGTMPack

Shannon Kearns joins host Justin Dorfman on #TheGTMPack to unpack what great product marketing really looks like across B2B and B2C, how to shift from sales-led to product-led growth without face-planting, and why behavioral psychology (not just copy) should drive your launches, claims, and lifecycle. We also riff on Shannon’s spicy take that “AI is the new UI.”What you’ll learn:The real B2B vs B2C differences: brand pillars, emotional promises, and claim-driven messagingPLG mindset shifts: experimentation discipline, XRDs (experiment reference docs), and data fluencyUsing internal product data to make credible, user-level claims (not just vanity stats)Behavioral psychology every PMM must know (paradox of choice, intent vs behavior, storytelling)Practical AI uses for PMMs today: competitor intel, persona GPTs, bias checks—plus where this is headedChapters:00:00 Intro00:47 Shannon’s path: research → demand gen → PMM04:55 B2B vs B2C: brand pillars, emotions, and product principles09:04 Claims that convert: moving beyond “100 integrations”11:00 Sales-led → Product-led: what actually changes12:50 Experimentation muscle: agility, guardrails, and XRDs20:45 Biggest PLG mistake leaders make23:50 Behavioral psychology for PMMs (and why it’s non-negotiable)26:40 Must-read: Using Behavioral Science in Marketing (Nancy Harhut)28:45 AI for PMMs today—and “AI is the new UI”36:30 Where to follow Shannon + wrapGuest:Shannon Kearns — Product Marketer (Austin, TX). Host:Justin Dorfman — Co-Founder, AssetMuleMentioned resources:Nancy Harhut — Using Behavioral Science in MarketingRobert Cialdini — InfluenceProduct Marketing Alliance, PMM Camp (Tamara Grominsky)If you enjoyed this episode, hit Subscribe, drop a comment with your favorite takeaway, and share with a PMM friend who’s flirting with PLG.#ProductMarketing #B2BMarketing #PLG #SalesLed #BehavioralScience #AI #TheGTMPack #AssetMule

Kenny Lee, a veteran product marketer and demand gen leader with stints at Adobe and Twitter, discusses the critical need for alignment between sales, marketing, and product teams. He dives into the causes of sales-marketing misalignment and offers a unified revenue model as a solution. Kenny emphasizes the pivotal role of product marketing in driving revenue and trust among teams. He also shares insights on AI's transformative role in sales enablement and provides valuable career advice for aspiring marketers eager to thrive in the evolving landscape.

In this episode of #TheGTMPack podcast, we sit down with Meenal Relekar, Career Coach & PMM Consultant, based in San Francisco, CA.In this conversation with Meenal, a seasoned product marketer with 16+ years of experience across CPG giants like Unilever and tech companies including Adobe, Dropbox, and DoorDash, we explore how product marketers can transform from tactical order-takers into strategic powerhouses. Drawing from her unique background and real-world pricing overhauls that generated hundreds of thousands in additional monthly revenue, Meenal reveals why pricing is one of the most overlooked yet powerful levers for PMM strategic impact. Her perspective challenges the conventional wisdom about who should own pricing decisions and provides a roadmap for product marketers to earn their seat at the executive table through data-driven customer insights and strategic thinking.A few key takeaways:💡 Product Marketers Should Own Pricing Strategy: Most companies fail at pricing because no one truly owns it - it floats between PMs, finance, and executives without clear accountability. PMMs are uniquely positioned to lead pricing decisions because they understand the three critical elements: dollar amount, packaging/configuration, and perceived value. Success requires proper research methodologies (conjoint analysis for tiers, Van Westendorp for price ranges, MaxDiff for feature preferences) rather than just copying competitors or guessing.💡 Elevate from Tactical to Strategic Impact: Too many product marketers get stuck creating launch checklists and sales decks instead of driving strategy. To earn a seat at the table, PMMs must: get involved early in product development (not just launches), own the company narrative about value and differentiation, and bring data-driven insights from customer research and competitive analysis. Real strategic impact comes from connecting customer pain points to business decisions and closing the loop on insights with end-to-end execution.💡 AI Changes Pricing Expectations: AI features have evolved from nice-to-have to expected in SaaS products, but customers will only pay premium for AI that genuinely saves time and improves workflows. Pricing models are shifting from technical usage-based pricing (tokens/API calls) to bundled approaches - AI included in premium tiers or as add-ons. The key is focusing on the value AI delivers rather than promoting AI for its own sake, with successful examples like Notion and Canva bundling AI into higher subscription tiers..#productmarketing #pmm #sales #gtm #salesenablement #pricing #ai

In this episode of #TheGTMPack, AssetMule CEO Justin Dorfman sits down with Stas Neyman, Director of Product Marketing at Akamai, to unpack the art (and challenges) of marketing to technical and security-minded audiences.They dive into:-Why technical audiences are skeptical of marketing - and how to earn their trust-How to market security solutions without fluff (and avoid credibility traps)-The role of analysts, peer validation, and technical proof in enterprise buying decisions-Best practices for competitive positioning without falling into feature wars-How product marketers can support sales teams during enterprise security reviews-The future of AI adoption in the enterprise and its security implicationsIf you’re in B2B product marketing, sales, or security, this is a playbook on how to communicate with the most skeptical - and most important - audiences.🎧 Subscribe to #TheGTMPack for weekly episodes with modern GTM leaders.#TheGTMPack #ProductMarketing #B2BMarketing #SalesEnablement #SecurityMarketing #Akamai #AIinSecurityTry our tool for free: https://followup.assetmule.ai/

In this episode of #TheGTMPack, AssetMule CEO Justin Dorfman sits down with Sam Hillestad, Director of Product Marketing at Reprise — a self-proclaimed “demo nerd” and one of the sharpest voices in the interactive demo space.They dive into:-Why product marketing should own the demo experience — live and interactive-How to make demos memorable with storytelling and relevance (not just feature tours)-The rise of demo centers and use-case specific experiences-Common mistakes that kill demo impact before they start-How AI is transforming demo creation, personalization, and maintenanceIf you’re in B2B marketing, sales, or product, this is a masterclass in turning demos into your most powerful revenue asset.🎧 Subscribe to #TheGTMPack for weekly episodes with modern GTM leaders.#TheGTMPack #B2BMarketing #SalesEnablement #ProductMarketing #InteractiveDemos #DemoLedGrowth #AIinSaleshttps://www.assetmule.ai/

In this episode of #TheGTMPack, AssetMule CEO Justin Dorfman sits down with Madhav Bhandari, Head of Marketing at Storylane — one of the most inventive minds in B2B SaaS marketing today.They dive into:How Storylane scaled traffic to 200k+ monthly visitors with demo-led SEOWhy inbound SDRs are dead and what comes nextHow to drive 50% of pipeline through LinkedIn employee advocacyWhy brand is more important than growth hacks in the LLM eraWhat agent-qualified leads mean for the future of buyer enablementIf you're in B2B marketing or GTM, this is required listening.🎧 Subscribe to #TheGTMPack for weekly episodes with modern GTM leaders.#TheGTMPack #B2BMarketing #ProductMarketing #Storylane #DemoLedGrowth #AIinMarketing #MarketingLeadership

AI, Org Design & Brand at Scale — with Koka Sexton, The Godfather of Social Selling🎙️ From #TheGTMPack Podcast with Jorge SotoIn this episode of #TheGTMPack, Jorge sits down with Koka Sexton, VP of Marketing at Interrupt and the original Godfather of Social Selling, to talk about the intersection of AI, content, and modern GTM teams.Koka’s built go-to-market machines at LinkedIn, Hootsuite, and Slack. Now at Interrupt, he’s thinking deeply about how AI is reshaping the structure of marketing teams, the way content is created, and how brands scale trust and visibility without scaling headcount.💡 You’ll learn:How AI is changing content creation—and org structureWhy you must rethink what your team looks like in the AI eraKoka’s blueprint for brand-led growth with automationThe role of “you are the media” in a world of LLMs and short attention spansHow dark social, content, and trust still drive the pipeline🔥 “AI lets us scale output. But if you don’t have trust, it’s still noise.” – KokaWhether you’re a founder, CMO, or operator—this is a must-listen playbook for building brand and trust at scale in the AI age.🔗 Subscribe for more episodes of #TheGTMPack featuring the brightest minds in GTM.#AIinMarketing #B2BMarketing #OrgDesign #GTMStrategy #KokaSexton #ContentMarketing #TheGTMPack #DarkSocial #Automation #MarketingLeadership