The GTM Pack Show

Shannon Kearns joins host Justin Dorfman on #TheGTMPack to unpack what great product marketing really looks like across B2B and B2C, how to shift from sales-led to product-led growth without face-planting, and why behavioral psychology (not just copy) should drive your launches, claims, and lifecycle. We also riff on Shannon’s spicy take that “AI is the new UI.”What you’ll learn:The real B2B vs B2C differences: brand pillars, emotional promises, and claim-driven messagingPLG mindset shifts: experimentation discipline, XRDs (experiment reference docs), and data fluencyUsing internal product data to make credible, user-level claims (not just vanity stats)Behavioral psychology every PMM must know (paradox of choice, intent vs behavior, storytelling)Practical AI uses for PMMs today: competitor intel, persona GPTs, bias checks—plus where this is headedChapters:00:00 Intro00:47 Shannon’s path: research → demand gen → PMM04:55 B2B vs B2C: brand pillars, emotions, and product principles09:04 Claims that convert: moving beyond “100 integrations”11:00 Sales-led → Product-led: what actually changes12:50 Experimentation muscle: agility, guardrails, and XRDs20:45 Biggest PLG mistake leaders make23:50 Behavioral psychology for PMMs (and why it’s non-negotiable)26:40 Must-read: Using Behavioral Science in Marketing (Nancy Harhut)28:45 AI for PMMs today—and “AI is the new UI”36:30 Where to follow Shannon + wrapGuest:Shannon Kearns — Product Marketer (Austin, TX). Host:Justin Dorfman — Co-Founder, AssetMuleMentioned resources:Nancy Harhut — Using Behavioral Science in MarketingRobert Cialdini — InfluenceProduct Marketing Alliance, PMM Camp (Tamara Grominsky)If you enjoyed this episode, hit Subscribe, drop a comment with your favorite takeaway, and share with a PMM friend who’s flirting with PLG.#ProductMarketing #B2BMarketing #PLG #SalesLed #BehavioralScience #AI #TheGTMPack #AssetMule

Kenny Lee, a veteran product marketer and demand gen leader with stints at Adobe and Twitter, discusses the critical need for alignment between sales, marketing, and product teams. He dives into the causes of sales-marketing misalignment and offers a unified revenue model as a solution. Kenny emphasizes the pivotal role of product marketing in driving revenue and trust among teams. He also shares insights on AI's transformative role in sales enablement and provides valuable career advice for aspiring marketers eager to thrive in the evolving landscape.

In this episode of #TheGTMPack podcast, we sit down with Meenal Relekar, Career Coach & PMM Consultant, based in San Francisco, CA.In this conversation with Meenal, a seasoned product marketer with 16+ years of experience across CPG giants like Unilever and tech companies including Adobe, Dropbox, and DoorDash, we explore how product marketers can transform from tactical order-takers into strategic powerhouses. Drawing from her unique background and real-world pricing overhauls that generated hundreds of thousands in additional monthly revenue, Meenal reveals why pricing is one of the most overlooked yet powerful levers for PMM strategic impact. Her perspective challenges the conventional wisdom about who should own pricing decisions and provides a roadmap for product marketers to earn their seat at the executive table through data-driven customer insights and strategic thinking.A few key takeaways:💡 Product Marketers Should Own Pricing Strategy: Most companies fail at pricing because no one truly owns it - it floats between PMs, finance, and executives without clear accountability. PMMs are uniquely positioned to lead pricing decisions because they understand the three critical elements: dollar amount, packaging/configuration, and perceived value. Success requires proper research methodologies (conjoint analysis for tiers, Van Westendorp for price ranges, MaxDiff for feature preferences) rather than just copying competitors or guessing.💡 Elevate from Tactical to Strategic Impact: Too many product marketers get stuck creating launch checklists and sales decks instead of driving strategy. To earn a seat at the table, PMMs must: get involved early in product development (not just launches), own the company narrative about value and differentiation, and bring data-driven insights from customer research and competitive analysis. Real strategic impact comes from connecting customer pain points to business decisions and closing the loop on insights with end-to-end execution.💡 AI Changes Pricing Expectations: AI features have evolved from nice-to-have to expected in SaaS products, but customers will only pay premium for AI that genuinely saves time and improves workflows. Pricing models are shifting from technical usage-based pricing (tokens/API calls) to bundled approaches - AI included in premium tiers or as add-ons. The key is focusing on the value AI delivers rather than promoting AI for its own sake, with successful examples like Notion and Canva bundling AI into higher subscription tiers..#productmarketing #pmm #sales #gtm #salesenablement #pricing #ai

In this episode of #TheGTMPack, AssetMule CEO Justin Dorfman sits down with Stas Neyman, Director of Product Marketing at Akamai, to unpack the art (and challenges) of marketing to technical and security-minded audiences.They dive into:-Why technical audiences are skeptical of marketing - and how to earn their trust-How to market security solutions without fluff (and avoid credibility traps)-The role of analysts, peer validation, and technical proof in enterprise buying decisions-Best practices for competitive positioning without falling into feature wars-How product marketers can support sales teams during enterprise security reviews-The future of AI adoption in the enterprise and its security implicationsIf you’re in B2B product marketing, sales, or security, this is a playbook on how to communicate with the most skeptical - and most important - audiences.🎧 Subscribe to #TheGTMPack for weekly episodes with modern GTM leaders.#TheGTMPack #ProductMarketing #B2BMarketing #SalesEnablement #SecurityMarketing #Akamai #AIinSecurityTry our tool for free: https://followup.assetmule.ai/

In this episode of #TheGTMPack, AssetMule CEO Justin Dorfman sits down with Sam Hillestad, Director of Product Marketing at Reprise — a self-proclaimed “demo nerd” and one of the sharpest voices in the interactive demo space.They dive into:-Why product marketing should own the demo experience — live and interactive-How to make demos memorable with storytelling and relevance (not just feature tours)-The rise of demo centers and use-case specific experiences-Common mistakes that kill demo impact before they start-How AI is transforming demo creation, personalization, and maintenanceIf you’re in B2B marketing, sales, or product, this is a masterclass in turning demos into your most powerful revenue asset.🎧 Subscribe to #TheGTMPack for weekly episodes with modern GTM leaders.#TheGTMPack #B2BMarketing #SalesEnablement #ProductMarketing #InteractiveDemos #DemoLedGrowth #AIinSaleshttps://www.assetmule.ai/

In this episode of #TheGTMPack, AssetMule CEO Justin Dorfman sits down with Madhav Bhandari, Head of Marketing at Storylane — one of the most inventive minds in B2B SaaS marketing today.They dive into:How Storylane scaled traffic to 200k+ monthly visitors with demo-led SEOWhy inbound SDRs are dead and what comes nextHow to drive 50% of pipeline through LinkedIn employee advocacyWhy brand is more important than growth hacks in the LLM eraWhat agent-qualified leads mean for the future of buyer enablementIf you're in B2B marketing or GTM, this is required listening.🎧 Subscribe to #TheGTMPack for weekly episodes with modern GTM leaders.#TheGTMPack #B2BMarketing #ProductMarketing #Storylane #DemoLedGrowth #AIinMarketing #MarketingLeadership

AI, Org Design & Brand at Scale — with Koka Sexton, The Godfather of Social Selling🎙️ From #TheGTMPack Podcast with Jorge SotoIn this episode of #TheGTMPack, Jorge sits down with Koka Sexton, VP of Marketing at Interrupt and the original Godfather of Social Selling, to talk about the intersection of AI, content, and modern GTM teams.Koka’s built go-to-market machines at LinkedIn, Hootsuite, and Slack. Now at Interrupt, he’s thinking deeply about how AI is reshaping the structure of marketing teams, the way content is created, and how brands scale trust and visibility without scaling headcount.💡 You’ll learn:How AI is changing content creation—and org structureWhy you must rethink what your team looks like in the AI eraKoka’s blueprint for brand-led growth with automationThe role of “you are the media” in a world of LLMs and short attention spansHow dark social, content, and trust still drive the pipeline🔥 “AI lets us scale output. But if you don’t have trust, it’s still noise.” – KokaWhether you’re a founder, CMO, or operator—this is a must-listen playbook for building brand and trust at scale in the AI age.🔗 Subscribe for more episodes of #TheGTMPack featuring the brightest minds in GTM.#AIinMarketing #B2BMarketing #OrgDesign #GTMStrategy #KokaSexton #ContentMarketing #TheGTMPack #DarkSocial #Automation #MarketingLeadership

In this episode, Justin Dorfman is joined by Shoshana Kordova, Founder & Lead Product Marketer at Peel Product Marketing (based in Israel), and a 3x founding PMM. Together, they unpack why customer insights are the secret weapon behind great product marketing—and why so many teams skip the step that matters most.🔍 What you'll learn:💡 How Shoshana transitioned from journalism to PMM💡 The underrated power of curiosity in GTM roles💡 Why being a founding PMM is equal parts chaotic and thrilling💡 How to actually do customer research, even with CS gatekeepersShoshana’s go-to framework: Product marketing is where product capabilities meet market needs.She also shares tactical guidance on building a repeatable customer interview pipeline, what makes a PMM impactful in early-stage startups, and how to align internal teams around insights—not just outputs.🎙️ Subscribe to this channel for more GTM content👋 Connect with Shoshana on LinkedIn📥 Get Shoshana’s playbook via PMM Jetpack - DM her on LinkedIn for details#productmarketing #startups #foundingPMM #customerinsights #GTM #marketingpodcast

In this episode of #TheGTMPack podcast, we sit down with Gaspard Pastural, a Paris, France-based positioning and messaging specialist whose company, Purple Oceans, helps early-stage B2B SaaS founders clarify their market position before scaling. Gaspard brings a unique perspective, having transitioned from growth marketing to strategic positioning after realizing that without proper messaging, even the best growth tactics fall flat. He specializes in helping founders navigate the crucial transition from broad market exploration to focused positioning that drives sustainable growth.In this conversation, we explore why first-time founders struggle with positioning, the myth of category creation, and how to differentiate without competing on features and price.Key takeaways:💡 Why First-Time Founders Skip Positioning (And Second-Time Founders Don't)Gaspard explains the pattern he sees: first-time founders want to jump straight into growth tactics, while experienced founders know that strong positioning is the foundation for sustainable scaling. Learn why this strategic work becomes essential after the initial "spray and pray" phase.💡 The Purple Ocean Strategy: Finding Your Niche in Crowded MarketsForget about creating new categories—Gaspard argues it's nearly impossible and often counterproductive. Instead, he introduces the concept of the "purple ocean": finding underserved segments within existing, proven markets where you can become the obvious choice.💡 The Hardest Part Isn't Getting Customers—It's Letting Them GoOne of the most challenging aspects of building SaaS isn't customer acquisition, it's having the discipline to churn customers who aren't the right fit. Gaspard walks through why this decision is crucial for long-term success and how to use data to make these tough calls.💡 Relevance Beats Features Every TimeBuyers don't choose the "best" software—they choose the most relevant solution for their specific situation. Learn how to position your SaaS as the obvious choice for a specific use case rather than trying to compete feature-by-feature.#productmarketing #pmm #positioning #messaging #saas #startups #gtmstrategy #differentiation #productmarketer

In this episode of #TheGTMPack podcast, we sit down with Aleksandra Mitroshkina, a product marketing leader based in Istanbul, who helps SaaS companies grow their share in saturated markets.Aleksandra brings a unique lens to product marketing, shaped by her early career in sales and product development. She’s especially passionate about Sales Enablement, go-to-market strategy for Open Source products, and applying agile methodologies to the PMM discipline.In this conversation, we dive into what it takes to market to skeptical developer audiences, how to turn open source users into paying customers, and why measuring sales confidence might be one of the most underrated tools in your go-to-market toolkit.Key takeaways:💡 From Sales to PMM: How a Cross-Functional Background Builds Better MarketersAleksandra shares how her experience in both sales and product development has made her a more well-rounded product marketer. Understanding how deals are won and how products get built gives her a clear edge when it comes to positioning, enablement, and cross-functional collaboration.💡 Marketing Open Source Products Requires a Different PlaybookSelling to developers isn’t about splashy campaigns or hard sells. Aleksandra explains why trust, community, and education are crucial when marketing open source, and how product marketers can meet developers on their terms.💡 Sales Confidence as a PMM KPIMeasuring sales confidence helps PMMs understand how well sales teams are enabled and where the gaps are. Aleksandra walks through how to run these surveys effectively, what questions to ask, and how to use the results to improve alignment, training, and ultimately—revenue.#productmarketing #pmm #salesenablement #opensource #gtmstrategy #agilemarketing #productmarketer