It’s All Your Fault: High Conflict People

In 2021, we noticed a new book that was gaining a lot of attention—titled High Conflict. Of course a book with that title grabbed our immediate attention and piqued our curiosity, as high conflict is what we think about all day every day. After reaching out to the author, Amanda Ripley, we were quickly intrigued by her research and perspective and have since spent time getting to know each other’s work.We are enormously pleased that Amanda has agreed to come on our show and happy to introduce her to listeners who haven’t yet heard about her. She is a New York Times best-selling author and investigative journalist. She started her journalism career covering courts and crime for Washington City Paper. She then spent 10 years working for Time Magazine in New York, Washington and Paris. Currently, Amanda lives in Washington, D.C., with her family. To discuss her writing, Amanda has appeared on ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, FOX News and NPR. She has spoken at the Pentagon, the Senate, the House of Representatives, the State Department and the Department of Homeland Security, as well as conferences on leadership, conflict resolution and education.In this episode, Bill will discuss “high conflict” with Amanda, including:“macro” view of high conflict: mostly large groups and political conflicts (city council, gangs, rebels in Colombia), and “micro” view of interpersonal high conflict (divorce, workplace, legal disputes)how to get out of high conflict situations and how to avoid them, and how to deal with high conflict if you can’t totally get out, such as co-parents, workplace bullies, and legal entanglementswhat it takes to reduce high conflict behavior and the need to get people to talk more and judge each other lessteaching journalists to ask more questions for depth beneath the conflict and to use the phrase both Bill and Amanda both love to use: “Tell me more!”Links & Other NotesWEBSITEAmanda’s websiteBOOKSAmanda’s book High Conflict: Why We Get Trapped and How We Get OutARTICLESIn Harvard Business Review: How to Work with Someone Who Creates Unnecessary ConflictOn CBS News: Book excerpt: “High Conflict,” when life becomes “us vs. them”Our website: https://www.highconflictinstitute.com/Submit a Question for Bill and MeganAll of our books can be found in our online store or anywhere books are sold, including as e-books.You can also find these show notes at our site as well.Note: We are not diagnosing anyone in our discussions, merely discussing patterns of behavior. (00:00) - Welcome to It's All Your Fault (01:30) - Meet Amanda Ripley (06:39) - Defining High Conflict (11:04) - The Reasons We Get Trapped (12:13) - Conflict Entrepreneurs (14:32) - Strategies for Getting Out of High Conflict (21:26) - Spending Time with HCIs (22:12) - Tell Me More (24:41) - Complicating the Narrative (28:17) - What She's Teaching to Journalists (30:22) - Polarization (34:18) - Wrapping Up (35:09) - Reminders & Coming Next Week: Q&A Lab

To tell or not to tell. That is a question on the minds of many who deal with high conflict situations. In a court situation, is it is a good idea to tell the judge that the other person is high conflict or has a personality disorder, whether diagnosed or suspected? The same goes in the workplace. Should HR be told? And the same question applies in any setting, such as the education environment, in mediation or even in families.It’s tempting to want to tell everyone what you suspect you’re dealing with, but will it help or hurt your case or situation? Will it backfire?Megan and Bill answer this vital question in this week’s episode. It’s a big issue that can impact outcomes whether in a legal case, in your job or in your family.Links & Other NotesBOOKSProtecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality DisorderHigh Conflict People in Legal DisputesAUDIOEducating the Court About High-Conflict PersonalitiesOur website: https://www.highconflictinstitute.com/Submit a Question for Bill and MeganAll of our books can be found in our online store or anywhere books are sold, including as e-books.You can also find these show notes at our site as well.Note: We are not diagnosing anyone in our discussions, merely discussing patterns of behavior. (00:00) - Welcome to It's All Your Fault (01:41) - To Tell or Not to Tell (05:44) - What About Formal Diagnoses? (08:08) - Concerning Patterns of Behavior (14:02) - What About Therapists and Lawyers? (18:11) - What About When Not Divorcing? (20:07) - How to Deal With It When You're the One Who's Told (27:19) - What If It's Your Family Member? (34:16) - Reminders & Coming Next Week: Amanda Ripley

Throughout the pandemic, which we’ve now been in for a little over two years, the fight has been “on” in the education world. Education – especially public education – has always been at the crossroads of many social and cultural changes, from bussing students across town, to benchmark academic standards for school funding, to which books are approved for teaching classes.Then with Covid, the conflict flame grew even brighter as parents, schools, unions, and more fought over – and continue to fight – over masks, vaccinations, virtual classes, school shutdowns, gender issues, parent rights, Zoom classes, and more. Conflict abounds.Bill and Megan speak with Sandra Just, MEd, founder of Just Look Within Coaching and Consulting. Sandra is an educator with 30+ years’ experience in public education as a teacher, administrator, and HR director. She discusses the current state of education, given the many issues that everyone involved in the system are faced with, including:How teachers cope and what keeps them goingConflicts with parents over setting reasonable limits in classSchool bullying and how, or whether, it can be dealt with effectivelyManaging school board meetingsConflict resolution training for teachers and administratorsListen in as Bill and Megan talk with Sandra about school. As Sandra says, “We’re great at helping kids, but maybe we’re not so great at helping the adults in education.”About Sandra JustSandra Just is the Founder and Principal of Just Look Within Coaching and Consulting. Sandra spent 31 years as an educator in the Denver Public Schools. During her time in DPS, she served as a teacher, counselor, performance management advisor, school leader, and interim regional assistant superintendent. She is known for developing her staff into leaders, supporting students to meet their goals, and creating a strong school culture. Sandra currently serves as a mentor for students in the para to teacher pipeline at the University of Northern Colorado Center for Urban Education. She also consults with School Works, as needed. Sandra earned her certificate as an Executive Coach in 2021 and is currently working toward Board Certification.Sandra enjoys spending time with family and friends. She volunteers with the Rocky Mountain Down Syndrome Association.Links & Other NotesGUEST LINKSSandra’s Website Just Look WithinFollow Sandra on LinkedInBOOKS & AUDIOManaging High Conflict People in Higher EducationBIFF: Quick Responses to High-Conflict PeopleCalming Upset People with EARCONFLICT INFLUENCER CERTIFICATION COURSEARTICLESEAR Statement Can Calm AnyoneOur website: https://www.highconflictinstitute.com/Submit a Question for Bill and MeganAll of our books can be found in our online store or anywhere books are sold, including as e-books.You can also find these show notes at our site as well.Note: We are not diagnosing anyone in our discussions, merely discussing patterns of behavior. (00:00) - Welcome to It's All Your Fault (00:27) - Sandra Just (03:20) - How Are Teachers Coping? (06:42) - How Are Teachers Responding? (07:38) - Physical Threats (09:28) - Percent of Parents With Issues (13:46) - Connecting to Calm (17:45) - Emotions Are Contagious (18:42) - Bullying (23:00) - Parents' Role as It Relates to Bullying (26:48) - Dealing With School Board Meetings (31:27) - Conflict Resolution Training (34:10) - Reminders & Coming Next Week: Revealing Someone's High Conflict

Parents divorcing in protracted battles. Crowded family court dockets. Kids who spend their childhood with nervous stomachs, anxiety, and a yearning for their parents to just get along. A typical high-conflict divorce and co-parenting situation.Most parents are able to work things out amicably but around 15-20% comprise the cases on the family court dockets. They are seemingly unable to resolve disputes and bring disputes to the court that others can work out themselves.What makes them different? And what works for them? Bill Eddy interviews Susie Rayner, GradDip FDRP, who is the New Ways Program Manager for the High Conflict Institute. Susie is visiting the U.S. for the Association of Family & Conciliation Courts conference from her homeland, Australia.Bill and Susie dive into the program that Bill created back in 2009 to help high conflict divorcing or separated parents—New Ways for Families®. It’s different from other co-parenting and divorce education courses because it focuses on teaching skills to handle conflict instead of lecturing about the do’s and don’ts of co-parenting. Listen in as Bill and Susie discuss New Ways for Families and how it helps parents get along and save lots of time, frustration and money; and how it helps the courts reduce their caseloads as the parents learn to make decisions without court.Links & Other NotesTHE NEW WAYS FOR FAMILIES PROGRAMTraining for therapists and divorce coachesOnline course for parentsBOOKSNew Ways for Families Professional GuidebookNew Ways for Families Parent WorkbookARTICLESHow is New Ways for Families® Different Than A Parenting Class?New Ways Parent-Child Talk: What to say to your children during this time of transitionWhy New Ways for Families® is Going OnlineGUEST BIOSUSIE RAYNER, GradDip FDRPSusie Rayner is the New Ways Program Manager for the High Conflict Institute. She manages each sub-brand of New Ways, including New Ways for Families, New Ways for Work, New Ways for Life, and New Ways for Mediation. Susie is a mediator, co-parenting coach, and was the founder of Mediate Negotiate, a family dispute resolution practice in Australia. Prior to becoming a dedicated family dispute resolution practitioner and family coach in 2018, she held positions in the corporate arena for 20 years. She also works in other areas of dispute resolution and volunteers with organizations that support people in crisis. She is the co-author of New Ways for Life™ Teacher Guide and Student Journal with Bill Eddy.Our website: https://www.highconflictinstitute.com/Submit a Question for Bill and MeganAll of our books can be found in our online store or anywhere books are sold, including as e-books.You can also find these show notes at our site as well.Note: We are not diagnosing anyone in our discussions, merely discussing patterns of behavior. (00:00) - Welcome to It's All Your Fault (01:22) - Meet Susie Rayner (02:40) - New Ways for Families (09:32) - Putting It Into Practice (12:40) - Other Areas for Use (15:30) - Helping Parents Make Big Decisions (17:28) - Not Law-Based (19:36) - Success Story (25:22) - The New Ways for Life Method (30:57) - The Four Big Skills (34:34) - Reminders & Coming Next Week: (34:34) - Last Thoughts

High conflict divorce is one the hardest trials one can go through. It’s so hard on parents and on their children. If you’ve ever wanted to know what it looks like from the inside, from someone who has been through it and come out the other side with good outcomes, listen to this episode featuring Bill and Megan’s guest, Shannon Jenkins from the podcast Starting Over with Shannon.After hearing a bit of Shannon’s story, Bill and Megan will talk with her about:these many downs and a limited number of ups in high conflict casesstrategies Shannon used in her own case that had positive resultswhat made the case seem high conflict to herwhere she decided to go to get the best decisions in terms of parenting plans, finance, relocation efforts, and other major decisions (mediation, direct negotiations, court, out-of-court)domestic violence and child abuse allegations, and other “distractions” and “manipulations” used in the casesome hopeful tips and encouragement for listeners who may be walking the path of high conflict separation, divorce and parenting/co-parentingLinks & Other NotesShannon’s websiteStarting Over with Shannon: The PodcastBOOKSDating Radar5 Types of People Who Can Ruin Your LifeSplittingARTICLESDifferences in Dealing with Borderline, Narcissistic and Antisocial Clients in Family LawFamily Law: 3 Theories of the High-Conflict Case6 Ways You Should Be Assertive in Family CourtOur website: https://www.highconflictinstitute.com/Submit a Question for Bill and MeganAll of our books can be found in our online store or anywhere books are sold, including as e-books.You can also find these show notes at our site as well.Note: We are not diagnosing anyone in our discussions, merely discussing patterns of behavior. (00:00) - Welcome to It's All Your Fault (01:50) - Meet Shannon Jenkins (03:18) - Why Start Over? (05:49) - What Made the Divorce High Conflict? (09:44) - Finding How to Approach the Case (12:21) - Business Law (13:40) - The Hague Convention (15:21) - Some of the High Conflict Issues (18:47) - What Made It Work? (22:44) - Her Support Structure (28:05) - How Things Turned Out (32:17) - Confusion (34:31) - How Her Son's Doing (36:01) - Wrapping Up (38:23) - Reminders & Coming Next Week: Susie Rayner

The legal case between Amber Heard and Johnny Depp has been heard around the world. It’s a case rife with allegations of domestic violence on both sides, which will be challenging for the jury to make a decision.In this episode Bill and Megan discuss the case and why it is important to focus on the big picture rather than being persuaded by a single picture or an isolated story. They will discuss:What kind of case is it – family law or defamation?Who will decide – a judge or a jury?The four different types of domestic violenceWhether the jurors can keep an open mind or notCan jurors avoid confirmation bias, assuming it’s always true, always false or always both?Why do juries and judges need 3 theories of any case of allegations of abuse?Links & Other NotesWEBSITESHigh Conflict InstituteConflict PlaybookCOURSEConversations About Domestic Violence in Family Law with 16 Experts: A 6-Part video series on Domestic Violence (DV) / Intimate Partner Violence (IPV) best practices in the family law environment in the United States and CanadaBOOKSDating Radar: Why Your Brain Says Yes to “The One” Who Will Make Your Life HellARTICLESDating DenialAre Your Personality Awareness Skills Up to Date?Does Your Relationship Include Coercive Control?Submit a Question for Bill and MeganAll of our books can be found in our online store or anywhere books are sold, including as e-books.You can also find these show notes at our site as well.Note: We are not diagnosing anyone in our discussions, merely discussing patterns of behavior. (00:00) - Welcome to It's All Your Fault (01:22) - Johnny Depp and Amber Heard (02:46) - Types of Domestic Violence (07:10) - Trying to See the Big Picture (14:01) - Confirmation Bias (16:44) - Three Theories (20:02) - True or False (26:07) - Dating Radar (30:09) - Reminders (31:14) - Coming Next Week: DV Guest

Workplace conflict is on the increase. According to a 2021 survey, 89% of employees from a diverse range of industries reported experiencing conflict at work, consuming 3.5 hours/week on average. Finding employees is challenging, making a calm workplace imperative if competitive advantage is to be gained. When incivility and bullies or other high conflict people are in the workplace, the impact goes deep.In this episode Bill and Megan talk with guest Catherine Mattice, founder of Civility Partners, and author of Back Off! Your Kick-Ass Guide to End Bullying at Work. They will discuss:whether bullying is increasingthe definition of bullyingcauses of bullyingcan it be eliminated?impact on others of bullyingdoes coaching work?should a bully be terminated?should we have workplace bullying laws?creating a psychologically safe work environmentCatherine has a wealth of experience specifically in bullying, including the latest research.Links & Other NotesWEBSITESCivility PartnersHigh Conflict InstituteBOOKSBACK OFF! Your Kick-Ass Guide to Ending Bullying at WorkIt’s All Your Fault at Work! Managing Narcissists and Other High Conflict PeopleARTICLESCivility and the Surge ProtectorWhy Don’t They Get It?Times are EdgySubmit a Question for Bill and MeganAll of our books can be found in our online store or anywhere books are sold, including as e-books.You can also find these show notes at our site as well.Note: We are not diagnosing anyone in our discussions, merely discussing patterns of behavior. (00:00) - Welcome to It's All Your Fault (01:22) - Catherine Mattice (02:49) - Catherine's Backstory (07:28) - Defining Workplace Bullying (10:17) - Causes of Workplace Bullying (12:47) - Eliminating It (15:04) - Those Who Are Impacted (15:58) - Is a Bully by Default an HCP? (18:44) - Reading the Population (21:12) - Evaluations (21:51) - Group Responses (23:30) - If You Need to Get Rid of Them (27:30) - How They Get There (29:01) - BIFF Certification (30:01) - What's Gratifying (31:51) - Workplace Bullying Laws (34:49) - Psychologically Safe Work Environment (40:59) - Finding Catherine (42:41) - Reminders & Coming Next Week: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard

It’s time for the Q&A Lab again! In this episode, Bill and Megan answer listener questions on several topics, including:dealing with high conflict family members who accuse you of not living up to their expectations. Should hurtful comments be ignored? Should EAR Statements be used?similarities and differences of ADHD and personality disorderscan ADHD co-exist with a high conflict personality in the same individualfrom a previous podcast on Russia’s Putin in which we suggested that he may suffer from malignant narcissism, and whether the term “psychopath” would be more accuratedeciding when to use EAR Statements and BIFF Responses to create connection with a person with a high conflict personality, and when to just take distance or avoid themre-kindling an old friendship with someone with Borderline Personality HCP attributesListen as we break it down and answer these questions that truly have a significant impact on lives.Links & Other NotesBOOKSIt’s All Your Fault! 12 Tips for Managing People Who Blame Others for EverythingARTICLESThe CARS Method® for Resolving High Conflict SituationsDon’t Let HCPs Ruin Your LifeYou Can Strengthen Any Relationship With Empathy, Attention, and RespectWEBSITEOur website: https://www.highconflictinstitute.com/Submit a Question for Bill and MeganAll of our books can be found in our online store or anywhere books are sold, including as e-books.You can also find these show notes at our site as well.Note: We are not diagnosing anyone in our discussions, merely discussing patterns of behavior. (00:00) - Welcome to It's All Your Fault (01:57) - Q&A Lab (02:09) - Question 1 (09:29) - Question 2 (16:07) - Question 3 (21:46) - Question 4 (25:09) - Question 5 (31:54) - Links, Etc. (32:53) - Reminders & Coming Next Week: Catherine Mattice

Family members (and friends) of someone who suffers from Borderline Personality Disorder (or BPD) are typically mystified about how to interact with them, walk on eggshells around them, and generally feel overwhelmed and defeated because they don’t know what to do.In this episode, Bill and Megan continue their discussion with BPD expert Amanda Smith, LCSW, founder of HopeforBPD.com. Amanda is a highly skilled BPD and Dialectical Behavior Therapy expert, having helped countless clients through their recovery. She’s helped family members learn the necessary skills for helping their loved one best while also taking care of themselves. Amanda also provides treatment consultation. She is the author of two books:The Dialectical Behavior Therapy Wellness PlannerThe Borderline Personality Disorder Wellness Planner for FamiliesIn this episode – part 2 of 2 – Amanda gives hope and help to family members and friends of those with BPD. She discusses what to do and what to avoid. She will explain whether BPD is a hopeless situation with no resolution or whether something can be done to intervene – including whether an “intervention” can work.Links & Other NotesHopeforBPDThe Dialectical Behavior Therapy Wellness PlannerThe Borderline Personality Disorder Wellness PlannerOur website: https://www.highconflictinstitute.com/Submit a Question for Bill and MeganAll of our books can be found in our online store or anywhere books are sold, including as e-books.You can also find these show notes at our site as well.Note: We are not diagnosing anyone in our discussions, merely discussing patterns of behavior. (00:00) - Welcome to It's All Your Fault (01:40) - The Family of Someone With BPD (02:43) - Avoiding Blame (05:34) - Helping When They Don't See the Problem (07:28) - When in a Marriage (09:22) - Couples Counseling (11:26) - Intervention? (13:50) - Calling It Out (15:18) - How to Approach It (17:03) - In High Conflict Divorces (20:42) - E A R Statements (22:18) - Medication (23:59) - Amanda's Book (26:50) - Wrapping Up (29:04) - Reminders

People throw around the term Borderline Personality Disorder (or BPD), but most likely don’t even know what it is, and many have no idea how to handle it, whether within themselves or with a family member. Relationships and interactions are somewhat of a mystery to those around them, and even to themselves. People with BPD often feel like the black sheep of the family, but once you have an understanding of what may be happening and use a set of skills that are typically quite opposite.In this episode, Bill and Megan talk with BPD expert Amanda Smith, LCSW, founder of HopeforBPD.com. Amanda is a highly skilled BPD and Dialectical Behavior Therapy expert, having helped countless clients through their recovery. She’s helped family members learn the necessary skills for helping their loved one best while also taking care of themselves. Amanda also provides treatment consultation. She is the author of two books:The Dialectical Behavior Therapy Wellness PlannerThe Borderline Personality Disorder Wellness Planner for FamiliesIn this episode – part 1 of 2 – Amanda discusses the basics of BPD and how to get help. In next week’s episode – part 2 – she will focus on what families can do to help.Links & Other NotesHopeforBPDThe Dialectical Behavior Therapy Wellness PlannerThe Borderline Personality Disorder Wellness PlannerOur website: https://www.highconflictinstitute.com/Submit a Question for Bill and MeganAll of our books can be found in our online store or anywhere books are sold, including as e-books.You can also find these show notes at our site as well.Note: We are not diagnosing anyone in our discussions, merely discussing patterns of behavior. (00:00) - Welcome to It's All Your Fault (01:34) - Amanda Smith (03:19) - Successes (04:12) - Trauma (06:20) - BPD vs. PTSD (08:18) - Emotion Disregulation (12:22) - Treatment (15:22) - In Parenting Cases (22:05) - On the Rise and More Acceptance? (24:11) - Resistant? (26:11) - Online Course (27:13) - Therapist Parameters (30:12) - Complicating Factors (32:51) - Amanda & Her Books (35:38) - Reminders & Coming Next Week: Part 2