The Learning + Performance Podcast

In this episode of The Learning and Performance Podcast, I interview Tom McDowall, an experienced learning and development professional and the founder of Evolve Learning Design about the importance of upskilling and reskilling—both for the broader workforce and for L&D teams themselves. We discuss why many traditional models in the field are outdated and no longer serve us and how to skill better. Tom has worked across almost every L&D role—from facilitator to digital designer to head of learning design—and now focuses on helping L&D teams improve how they think, operate, and deliver impact. This conversation is packed with insight and honesty, and I think you’ll walk away with a sharper perspective on how to help people—and yourself—learn and perform better.Key Topics:In the conversation, we hit on a number of interesting topics relevant to learning and performance, including:What performance is and why it depends just as much on systems as it does on peopleWhy L&D often solves the wrong problemsThe difference between capability and opportunity—and how learning only supports oneTom’s journey into L&D and his critique of self-made success narrativesWhat a product mindset looks like in practiceWhy upskilling is uncomfortable—but necessary—and how to support it without overwhelming peopleHow to measure the success of upskilling initiativesPractical strategies for internal L&D teams to do more with lessThe importance of context awareness and system thinkingAnd more.Connect with Tom⁠Evolve ⁠– Tom’s learning consultancy⁠⁠⁠⁠IDTx Conference - Tom's conference for IDersLinkedInYouTubeNotes, Mentions, and Resources:Performance = where capability (internal KSAs) and opportunity (external environmental supports) meetW. Edwards Deming – “A bad system will beat a good person every time.”Learning = cognitive process of knowledge and skill developmentDesigning “learning” vs. designing training and resources for learning to occurSpaced practice, dripped contentInformal learning occurring all the timeThrive – LXP platform Tom worked withColossyan – AI avatar video platform Tom consulted withWhy luck is a big element of careersTaking a “product mindset” in L&D—viewing L&D as a provider of internal productsThomas Gilbert – Human Competence ModelGuy Wallace – Performance-based instructional designGreg Arthur – Learning experience design podcast guestEvolve – Tom’s learning design consultancyThe myth of the learner—people don't necessarily want to learn, value learning, or feel comfortable doing itGoal = more performant employees/professionals, not satisfied learnersUpskilling and reskilling as a form of change managementReskilling as uncomfortable but a kind/human thing to doWEF Jobs Insight Report (2025) – Human-only jobs declining, high churn/mobility, growing demand for physical laborImportance of L&D upskilling itself and practicing what it preachesChallenges of upskilling L&D: budget, assumptions, discomfort, outdated models, resistance to changeAddressing those challenges: be flexible, communicate value, use dataDelivering outcomes > outputsMeasuring upskilling impact: connect skills to KPIs, observe behavior change, avoid self-assessments, explore genAI roleplays, consider environmental variablesCore L&D skills today: resilience, tech elasticity, mental health awarenessThe Learning Network (UK) – Peer-driven L&D communityPixar’s Brain Trust – Honest, iterative creative feedbackBeing nice vs. being kind – Hard truths help people growKim Scott – Radical Candor – Clear, caring feedbackInvesting in contextual intelligence—reading widely and understanding learner environmentsAdam Savage’s principle of first-order retrieval – Reduce friction and increase flowAdam Grant – WorkLife Podcast – Making work betterWhy you shouldn’t always ask older professionals for advice firstGordon Brown – Seven Ways to Change the World – Insight into global systemic changeSTOP Technique – Stop, Take a Breath, Observe, Proceed

In this episode of The Learning and Performance Podcast, I speak with the late Cathan Kabrelian, a leading expert in compassionate communication. Cathan was a trainer, speaker, retreat leader, and mentor, known for integrating compassionate communication into a wide range of fields, from education to corporate environments. Through her work as a trauma-informed Needs-Awareness Trainer, Certified Mindfulness Instructor, and Breath Coach, Cathan brought a unique depth to understanding and teaching not only effective communication skills but the self-awareness skills to transform conversations and relationships at work, at home, and in all those third spaces. Together, Cathan and I discussed why compassionate communication matters and how you can use it to live a more self-aware, wonderful, and connected life.Key TopicsIn the conversation, we hit on a number of interesting topics relevant to learning and performance, including:What is compassionate or non-violent communication, and why is it importantThe importance of feelings and needs awareness to life and relationshipsThe OFNR framework of observation, feelings, needs, requestsHow to translate thoughts and judgments into needsFeelings as a “radar” for detecting what we needShifting from blaming others to identifying our own values and needsWhy self-connection is necessary to connect with othersThree ways to navigate challenging feelingsTwo ways to practice compassionate communication - formal and real-lifeUsing compassionate communication at workAnd much more...Learn More About Cathan and NVCCathan's websiteIn Loving MemoryNVC by Marshall RosenbergNew York Center for NVCThe Compassion Course by Thom Bond and teamNotes,Mentions, and ResourcesIdentity - not just WHO we are or WHAT we do or believe but HOW we arePerformance - achieving tasks towards a goal with creativity, skill, and compassionate consideration of needsLearning - understanding something better than we did beforeLearning-Performance "Loops" - Learn, Practice, Perform.Compassionate/Non-Violent Communication (NVC)Needs awarenessNon-Violent Communication (NVC) by Marshall RosenbergOFNR Framework - Observations, Feelings, Needs, RequestsObservations - what we notice about ourselves, others, and the worldFeelings - sensations stimulated by met or unmet needsNeeds - universal life impulses; drivers of actionsRequests/Strategies - ways to meet our needsCompassion Course OnlineThe Compassion Book by Thom BondNY Center for NVC (NYCNVC)Effective practice is intentional, focused, awareTranslating Judgments Practice - translating judgments into feelings and needs/valuesShifting from judgment and blaming to connection, curiosity, and compassionPrinciple - everything we do we do to meet a need or valueFeelings as "radar" for needs, not something to fear or push awayApplying NVC at work - values and what matters>needs; focusing on individual self-connection leads to more curiosity, compassion, and connection with co-workersIt doesn't take two to change a conversation, only oneDealing with difficult feelings by connecting to met/unmet needs - (1) notice judgments/resistance/thinking, (2) tune into body sensations, (3) identify what you want/need and embody it, (4) think of a strategy to meet the needsFeelings and Needs listStudy by Brene Brown on average number of feelings of AmericansSelf-connect first to connect with others secondTwo types of practice for showing up better - formal and integrative/IRLCathan's website - Compassionate Thriving Types of Judgments - Value judgments, preferences, assessments vs. moralistic judgmentsHigh performance in life = showing up authentically and connecting with othersMindfulnessSomatic experiencing and breathworkCompassion vs. empathy

In this episode of The Learning and Performance Podcast, I speak with Dr. Alaina Szlachta, an education entrepreneur and data and measurement "nerd," about leveraging data to improve workplace learning and performance. Alaina is the founder and Chief Measurement Architect at By Design Development Solutions, a consultancy that works with leaders and teams to create simple data collection systems that enable their programs to facilitate real, evidence-based impact and change. Together, Alaina and I discuss why measurement, assessment, evaluation, and data are so critical to learning and performance improvement, and she shares some great insights and tools for measuring and understanding the true impact of your learning and performance efforts.Key TopicsIn our conversation, we hit on a number of interesting topics relevant to learning and performance, including: The importance of collecting and utilizing data (and why data is power) Evaluation, measurement - what they are and why they matter The criticality of having feedback loops in teaching and learning The similarities and differences between measurement, evaluation, and assessment Why analysis and evaluation are so often overlooked The difference between analyzing and addressing performance gaps vs. designing learning solutions Some challenges with measuring the impact of training and other interventions, and how to overcome them How to artfully navigate questionable training requests How to evaluate intangible skills in highly tangible ways And a whole lot more!Connect with Alaina Alaina's website LinkedIn Measurement Made Easy group Measurement and Evaluation on a Shoestring⁠⁠⁠Mentions and Resources: Learning 2024 Conference Dr. Megan Torrance - Why data is power The data pyramid and how wisdom requires data Performance - a combo of attitudes and actions, beliefs and behaviors that show up in how we work Learning - a means to an end at work, NOT the end result The importance of evaluating performance changes, not just assessing learning! Importance of constant feedback loops in teaching and learning and the lack of feedback loop in much workplace learning and performance improvement Telling Ain't Training Definition of measurement - strategic planning to collect data and collecting it Definition of evaluation - analyzing the data and determining effectiveness Importance of measurement and evaluation to decision-making The ADDIE Framework - so easy to neglect/overlook A and E Analyzing and addressing performance gaps vs. designing and delivering learning solutions The Pareto Principle - 20 percent of content providing 80 percent of value Why evaluation is overlooked - (1) lack of time, money, and people to do a comprehensive evaluation, (2) focusing on superficial aspects of learning experiences, (3) not clearly identifying the important things to value Kirkpatrick's Four Levels of Evaluation Assessment vs. Evaluation - assessments collect data on learning, and evaluations determine changes in performance Challenges with measuring impact - (1) building a training or learning solution without validating the problem is a lack of knowledge, (2) not digging into the data closely Measurement and Evaluation on a Shoestring (ATD Press 2025) Getting out of the shoestring by being strategic Aligning L&D resources with core business/organizational metrics Heidi Kirby - Useful Stuff Importance of listening to your gut when sensing red flags with requests How to sidestep training requests with strategic questions about the problem Evaluating the "intangibles" - (1) Translate intangible skills into tangible behaviors and indicators. (2) Tie it back to the problem. What would be different if the person was better at this? If they did it, would it solve the problem? Importance of using tech to automate other things and free up time for better analysis and evaluation Being clear on key indicators/criteria before making professional decision (e.g., finding a job, taking on a client)

Overview: In this episode of the L&P podcast, I speak with Mark Sheppard, a learning architect, designer, and self-proclaimed L&D “geek" about ways that that L&D professionals and teams can innovate their products, processes, and practices. Mark is the owner and founder of 2Sphynx Innovations, an L&D consultancy serving the public and private sectors in Canada and the US. With an impressive academic background and 30 years+ in the L&D field, Mark and I discuss a wealth of principles and practices you can use to change the way you consult, design, create, and lead. Key Topics: In the conversation, we hit on a number of interesting topics relevant to learning and performance, including: Striking the right balance between efficiency and innovation in L&D performance The yin-yang relationship between learning and performance The role of emotions—both positive and negative—in impactful learning Learning in the flow of work Dos and don’ts of online instruction The value of full-stack L&D consulting Mark’s advice on being a freelancer/contractor The value of open-ended questions and challenging assumptions when working with stakeholders The many uses of LLMs for L&D Why context often trumps content when it comes to learning The crucial difference between gamification of learning and game-based learning The shortcomings of traditional L&D frameworks and some better alternatives Barriers to innovation in L&D and how to overcome them And much more! Connect with Mark: LinkedIn: https://ca.linkedin.com/in/marksheppard Blue Sky: https://publictest.bsky.cz/profile/did:plc:jk4hydiju4stbfzvtamktpjq 2Sphynx: https://2sphynx.com/ Mentions and Resources: Performance as a function of efficiency AND innovation Role of emotion in learning Education vs. learning Learning and performance as yin and yang Bob Mosher - Learning in the workflow The roots of instructional design in the military Online instruction: dos and dont's - (1) The importance of having a co-facilitator for live online learning, (2) the importance of videos and office hours for asynchronous online courses Being a "full-stack" L&D professional Tips on being a freelance L&Der- (1) Being a trusted advisor, (2) having empathy for SMEs and learners, (3) thinking like an entrepreneur/owner, (4) focusing on solving problems>providing training solutions, (5) watching out for bad contracts, (6) engaging in regular marketing and sales and articulating your value prop The role of powerful questions (e.g., "how might we") in building trust, challenging assumptions, and creating better solutions Importance of pre-boarding to successful onboarding The value of LLMs for L&D - (1) knowledge management, (2) time saving, (3) content design and development, (4) sounding board, (5) thought partner, (6) devil's advocate, (7) needs analysis and evaluation, (8) data analysis and insights LLM watch outs - too much focus on content production>process The role of play and fun in learning Performance analysis and improvement - Guy Wallace, Geary Rummler, Joe Harless, W. Edwards Deming Microlearning Performance support Importance of context and activities>content and events Iterative L&D - agile, rapid prototyping, SAM The Kirkpatrick Framework and its shortcomings The CIPP Evaluation Framework (Context-Input-Process-Problem) Will Thalheimer's Learning Transfer Evaluation Model The ADDIE Framework - a macro doctrine, NOT a process or project plan 3 targets of innovation for L&D - (1) Product, (2) Process, and (3) Practice Barriers to innovation in L&D - (1) fear, (2) inertia Game-based learning/design vs. gamifying learning Promises and pitfalls of gamificiation The psychology of game-based learning - social learning, novelty, choice, experimentation/safety Conditions vs. constraints in design of games Dunning-Kruger Effect - mismatch between competence and confidence Yerkes Dodson Curve - Moderate anxiety as a beneficial for learning Importance of breaks and working with your brain in mind

In this episode of the L&P pod, I speak with Noah Rasheta, a Buddhist philosopher, author, and podcaster dedicated to making Buddhist philosophy accessible and practical for everyday life. Noah's podcast, The Secular Buddhism Podcast, shares Buddhist principles and practices that modern people can use to learn, perform, and live more wisely. His book, "No-Nonsense Buddhism for Beginners," breaks down key Buddhist concepts for a Western audience and is an invaluable resource for those seeking to incorporate mindfulness and philosophical insights into their daily routines. In the conversation, Noah and I discuss some basic ideas from Buddhism and ways people from a secular background can leverage Buddhism. Noah enjoys photography, paragliding, volunteering as a school bus driver, and spending time with his wife and kids in Utah. KEY TOPICS: In our conversation, Noah and I hit on several topics relevant to learning and performance, including: What is secular Buddhism The Four Noble Truths The difference between pain and suffering Seeing life as a game The power of awareness and attention for learning and performance Common myths and misconceptions about Buddhism and mindfulness Enlightenment as a journey vs. a destination Unlearning as a tool for learning Acknowledging multiple perspectives The Middle Way of optimal performance The power of pausing and returning to the breath Doing things for the sake of it Questioning the judgments and evaluations we make ABOUT THE GUEST: Noah Rasheta is a Buddhist philosopher, best-selling author, and podcast host. He has presented his teachings at some of the world's most renowned organizations, such as Apple®, PwC, YPO, Entrepreneurs' Organization, and many others. His teachings have been downloaded millions of times by individuals all around the world. CONNECT WITH NOAH: Secular Buddhism website Instagram Facebook Twitter/X MENTIONS and RESOURCES: Performance vs. effort - See this and this Secular Buddhism - See this and this and this First Noble Truth - Truth of Suffering - See this and this Second Noble Truth - Truth of the Cause of Suffering - See this and this Third Noble Truth - The End of Suffering - See this and this Fourth Noble Truth - Eightfold Path to End Suffering - See this and this AND this Pain vs. Suffering - See this and this Groundlessness Life as Chess vs. Tetris - The Myth of Having a Totally Happy Life Life Bingo Myth: Meditation as a Way to Feel Good (Catch the Butterfly) vs. a Way of Better Seeing/Feeling (Flashlight to Raise Awareness) Happiness as a Butterfly Myth: Enlightenment as an End Goal vs. a Journey Importance of awareness in learning and teaching Unlearning as a tool for learning Parable of the Blind Men and the Elephant - different ways of understanding things Learning styles vs. preferences Secular Buddhism podcast No Nonsense Buddhism for Beginners The Power of the Pause Flow experience The Middle Way of Performance Doing things for the sake of it Not tying identity to outcomes Parable of the Farmer and the Horse - "Who knows what is good/bad?" Life is short, so make the most of it

In this episode of the L&P pod, I speak with Massimo Pigliucci, a philosopher, professor, author, and expert on Stoicism and practical philosophy. Massimo and I discuss why humans should study philosophy and how modern people can apply the ancient philosophy of Stoicism to improve our ability to learn, perform, and live well. The episode provides a toolbox of Stoic principles and practices for us all to navigate an increasingly complex, chaotic, and uncertain world. KEY TOPICS: In our conversation, Massimo and I hit on a number of topics relevant to learning and performance, including: What is philosophy and why it matters to the average person The two main branches of philosophy - theoretical and practical Stoicism as a philosophy of life The three main components of philosophies as ways of life The Origins of Stoicism The three aspects of human nature The four cardinal virtues Key Stoic figures like Marcus Aurelius, Epictetus, Seneca and what they can teach modern people Common myths and misconceptions about Stoicism and other ancient philosophies The difference between intentions and outcomes Analytical and practical techniques devised by the Stoics to help us be wiser and flourish A whole lot more! ABOUT THE GUEST: Massimo is the K.D. Irani Professor of Philosophy at the City College of New York. Massimo holds PhDs in evolutionary biology and philosophy. He conducts research and teaches classes on topics including philosophy, philosophy of science, and Stoicism. Massimo’s authored several articles and books that make ancient philosophy, especially Stoicism, more accessible and applicable to everyday life. He’s part of Modern Stoicism, a movement to help revive Stoicism that has equipped many with tools to handle life’s challenges more effectively. You can learn more about him from Wikipedia. CONNECT WITH MASSIMO: Website University Page Substack YouTube Stoa Nova Modern Stoicism MENTIONS, REFERENCES, AND RESOURCES: Internal vs. external standards Biological, machine, and human learning Definition of Philosophy Two branches of philosophy - theoretical vs. practical Eudaimonia - flourishing in life Plato Stoicism The three components of philosophies as a way of life - Meta-physics, ethics, practices Living in accordance with nature Zeno of Citium - founder of Stoicism Three aspects of human nature - biology, rationality, sociality The four cardinal virtues - practical wisdom, courage, justice, temperance Marcus Aurelius Stoic training/practice How to Be a Stoic by Massimo Pigliucci The Meditations of Marcus Aurelius The Discourses of Epictetus Epictetus's Enchiridion Seneca's Letters Stoic definition of "passion" Stoic vs. stoic Epicurean vs. epicurean A Handbook for New Stoics by Massimo Pigliucci and Gregory Lopez Contemplative exercise: Philosophical journaling The myth of learning from experience alone Musonius Rufus Physical exercise: Fasting, abstaining, intentional mild discomfort Dichotomy of control exercise A Guide to the Good Life by Bill Irvine Intentions vs. outcomes Galen Setting internal vs. external goals Aristotle and aristotelianism Epicureanism The Philosophy of CBT by Don Robertson The Role Ethics of Epictetus by Brian Johnson Hic et nunc - "Here and now" tattoo

Mike Christensen, Director of Professional Development at the Feeling Good Institute, shares his expertise in cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). He explores how our thoughts shape our feelings and actions, highlighting the difference between CBT and mere positive thinking. Mike discusses the powerful TEAM approach to therapy, emphasizing empathy and measuring outcomes. He also shares techniques for overcoming resistance to change, the benefits of deliberate practice for personal growth, and how to frame challenges as opportunities for success.

Connie Malamed, known as the eLearning coach, has devoted over twenty years to crafting engaging online learning. In their conversation, she debunks myths about eLearning and champions scenario-based training for better retention. Connie shares essential visual design principles that enhance digestibility, addresses the common struggles designers face, and emphasizes the importance of empathy and evaluation in learning. The discussion also touches on innovative techniques for effective learning and the growing role of AI in instructional design.

Heidi Kirby is an L&D strategy consultant with a PhD in instructional design and over a decade of experience. She discusses the necessity of strategic thinking within L&D teams and how to effectively manage stakeholder expectations. The conversation highlights building diverse teams and beginning projects with evaluation in mind. Heidi shares insights from her experiences, including designing for NASA, and emphasizes the importance of aligning L&D initiatives with organizational goals for enhanced learning and performance.

Chris Deavin, a seasoned health coach and personal trainer with over 20 years of experience, shares his insights on habit formation and behavior change. He dives into the myth of quick fixes, emphasizing the importance of hard work and consistency. Chris discusses how understanding core values can enhance motivation and the crucial role of mindset in making lasting changes. He also highlights designing environments to facilitate positive habits and addresses the power of accountability and learning from failure on the journey to better health.