The Learning + Performance Podcast #19 - Tom McDowall on Upskilling and Reskilling L&D
In this episode of The Learning and Performance Podcast, I interview Tom McDowall, an experienced learning and development professional and the founder of Evolve Learning Design about the importance of upskilling and reskilling—both for the broader workforce and for L&D teams themselves. We discuss why many traditional models in the field are outdated and no longer serve us and how to skill better. Tom has worked across almost every L&D role—from facilitator to digital designer to head of learning design—and now focuses on helping L&D teams improve how they think, operate, and deliver impact. This conversation is packed with insight and honesty, and I think you’ll walk away with a sharper perspective on how to help people—and yourself—learn and perform better.
Key Topics:
In the conversation, we hit on a number of interesting topics relevant to learning and performance, including:
- What performance is and why it depends just as much on systems as it does on people
- Why L&D often solves the wrong problems
The difference between capability and opportunity—and how learning only supports one
Tom’s journey into L&D and his critique of self-made success narratives
What a product mindset looks like in practice
Why upskilling is uncomfortable—but necessary—and how to support it without overwhelming people
How to measure the success of upskilling initiatives
Practical strategies for internal L&D teams to do more with less
The importance of context awareness and system thinking
And more.
Connect with Tom
- Evolve – Tom’s learning consultancy
- IDTx Conference - Tom's conference for IDers
- YouTube
Notes, Mentions, and Resources:
Performance = where capability (internal KSAs) and opportunity (external environmental supports) meet
W. Edwards Deming – “A bad system will beat a good person every time.”
Learning = cognitive process of knowledge and skill development
Designing “learning” vs. designing training and resources for learning to occur
Thrive – LXP platform Tom worked with
Colossyan – AI avatar video platform Tom consulted with
Why luck is a big element of careers
Taking a “product mindset” in L&D—viewing L&D as a provider of internal products
Thomas Gilbert – Human Competence Model
Guy Wallace – Performance-based instructional design
Greg Arthur – Learning experience design podcast guest
Evolve – Tom’s learning design consultancy
The myth of the learner—people don't necessarily want to learn, value learning, or feel comfortable doing it
Goal = more performant employees/professionals, not satisfied learners
Upskilling and reskilling as a form of change management
Reskilling as uncomfortable but a kind/human thing to do
WEF Jobs Insight Report (2025) – Human-only jobs declining, high churn/mobility, growing demand for physical labor
Importance of L&D upskilling itself and practicing what it preaches
Challenges of upskilling L&D: budget, assumptions, discomfort, outdated models, resistance to change
Addressing those challenges: be flexible, communicate value, use data
Delivering outcomes > outputs
Measuring upskilling impact: connect skills to KPIs, observe behavior change, avoid self-assessments, explore genAI roleplays, consider environmental variables
Core L&D skills today: resilience, tech elasticity, mental health awareness
The Learning Network (UK) – Peer-driven L&D community
Pixar’s Brain Trust – Honest, iterative creative feedback
Being nice vs. being kind – Hard truths help people grow
Kim Scott – Radical Candor – Clear, caring feedback
Investing in contextual intelligence—reading widely and understanding learner environments
Adam Savage’s principle of first-order retrieval – Reduce friction and increase flow
Adam Grant – WorkLife Podcast – Making work better
Why you shouldn’t always ask older professionals for advice first
Gordon Brown – Seven Ways to Change the World – Insight into global systemic change
STOP Technique – Stop, Take a Breath, Observe, Proceed