Brought to you by Linear—The new standard for modern software development | Braintrust—For when you needed talent, yesterday | Rows—The spreadsheet where data comes to life—Elena Verna is a leading growth expert with over 15 years of experience in tech. She was SVP of Growth at SurveyMonkey and interim CMO at Miro, where she built high-performing teams that drove significant growth. She recently served as interim Head of Growth at Amplitude and currently advises and is a board member for early-stage startups. In today’s podcast, we discuss:• What product-led sales is• How product-led sales differs from product-led growth• Unpacking common acronyms: PQAs, PQs, PQLs, and MQLs• When and how to consider investing in PLS• Metrics for identifying qualified accounts• The team, data, and tooling required for implementing PLS• Common pitfalls to avoid when adding PLS—Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-product-led-sales-elena-verna/#transcript—Where to find Elena Verna:• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elenaverna• Twitter: https://twitter.com/elenaverna• Newsletter: https://elenaverna.substack.com/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Elena’s background and what she’s doing now(07:13) Product-led sales (PLS) vs. product-led growth (PLG)(12:47) How sales solutions can be applied to enterprise-level problems(15:06) Defining enterprise-level problems (17:51) How product-led companies start with PLS(20:30) When to add sales(22:36) Two ways to get to PLS(24:27) Why every sales-led-growth company needs to add PLG(26:50) Two ways you can own revenue(28:37) PQAs, PQs, PQLs, and MQLs(37:17) How to get started adding PLS(42:01) Metrics to identify PQAs(47:00) Why sales should be carefully applied (49:07) Systems, infrastructure, and tooling(50:59) The people and resources required for PLS(53:42) Why you should have a clear ROI for every new hire(55:05) Why product needs to be accountable for monetization with PLS(59:57) Revenue-based goals product teams should have(1:06:28) Common pitfalls startups run into when implementing PLS(1:09:15) Benchmarks and the amount of time needed for implementing enterprise solutions(1:12:04) Using onboarding to profile users(1:13:08) Will AI be the next sales movement?—Referenced:• Elena’s previous episode on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/elena-verna-on-how-b2b-growth-is-changing-product-led-growth-product-led-sales-why-you-should-go-freemium-not-trial-what-features-to-make-free-and-much-more/• Miro: https://miro.com/• Figma: https://www.figma.com/• Elena’s PLS funnel diagram: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/elenaverna_b2b-product-led-sales-guide-activity-7052664130763206658-yxLK/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop• Elena’s memes: https://www.elenaverna.com/memes• Mixpanel Signal reports: https://mixpanel.com/blog/mixpanel-signal-launch/• Amplitude Compass chart: https://help.amplitude.com/hc/en-us/articles/235147347-The-Compass-chart-discover-your-users-a-ha-moments• Looker: https://www.looker.com/• Tableau: https://www.tableau.com/• Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/• HubSpot: https://www.hubspot.com/• Marketo: https://nation.marketo.com/• Waitlist for PLG course on Reforge: https://www.reforge.com/programs/product-led-growth—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Elena Verna has led growth at some of today’s most successful B2B businesses, including Miro as CMO, Surveymonkey as SVP of Growth, and now at Amplitude as interim Head of Growth. She’s also worked closely with over a dozen companies on growth and product strategy, including companies like MongoDB, Clockwise, and Netlify (where she sits on the board of directors). Elena is undoubtedly one of the smartest people on growth strategy in the world.—Thank you to our sponsors for making this episode possible:• Persona: https://withpersona.com/lenny• Stytch: https://stytch.com/• PostHog: https://posthog.com/lenny—In this episode, we cover:1) How did Elena go from an analyst at Safeway to Head of Product at Amplitude?2) What’s changing in B2B growth?3) What exactly is “product-led growth,” and how can you apply it at every stage of growth?4) How is PLG already transforming itself?5) Why do you need to be both product-led and sales-led?6) Why does PLG often get crushed when you move upmarket, and how do you avoid this?7) What it looks like when your PLG motion is dying.8) Why product-led is the future of sales.9) Why is freemium the way to go, over trial?10) Why should you hire internally for your first growth hire?—Where to find Elena:• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elenaverna• Twitter: https://twitter.com/elenaverna Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Elena Verna, former SVP growth at Survey Monkey, discusses Airtable's shift to enterprise and Slack's product roadmap. They debate the dangers of betting on a single growth loop, the importance of layering other growth loops, and the impact of PLG on enterprise wins. They also analyze the challenges of transitioning from simplicity to complexity, selling to different market segments, and scaling product-led growth businesses.

If you ever wanted to distill 3,310 hours of knowledge into 60 minutes, then this episode is for you. For the last 6 months, Lenny’s Podcast has been downloaded more than 2 million times and is now a top 10 technology podcast across both Apple and Spotify. And in this special episode, I’m breaking down the top 10 most downloaded episodes, plus sharing my favorite lessons from each. It's unlike anything I've done before, and I hope you love it. Happy holidays, happy new year, and from the bottom of my heart, thank you so much for listening, sharing, and for supporting the podcast. I’ll see you in 2023!—Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/countdown-of-the-top-10-episodes-of-the-year/#transcript—Thank you to our wonderful sponsors for supporting this podcast:• TED—ReThinking with Adam Grant: https://adamgrant.net/podcasts/rethinking/• Notion—One workspace. Every team: https://www.notion.com/lennyspod• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security: https://vanta.com/lenny—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—The 10 most downloaded episodes of 2022:* April Dunford on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/april-dunford-on-product-positioning-segmentation-and-optimizing-your-sales-process/* Crystal Widjaja on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-scrappily-hire-for-measure-and-unlock-growth-crystal-widjaja-gojek-and-kumu/* Julie Zhuo on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/julie-zhuo-on-accelerating-your-career-impostor-syndrome-writing-building-product-sense-using-intuition-vs-data-hiring-designers-and-moving-into-management/* Shishir Mehrotra on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-rituals-of-great-teams-shishir-mehrotra-coda-youtube-microsoft/* Kristen Berman on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/using-behavioral-science-to-improve-your-product-kristen-berman-irrational-labs/* Elena Verna on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/elena-verna-on-how-b2b-growth-is-changing-product-led-growth-product-led-sales-why-you-should-go-freemium-not-trial-what-features-to-make-free-and-much-more/* Ethan Smith on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-seo-ethan-smith-graphite/* Shreyas Doshi on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/shreyas-doshi-on-pre-mortems-the-lno-framework-the-three-levels-of-product-work-why-most-execution-problems-are-strategy-problems-and-roi-vs-opportunity-cost-thinking/* Marty Cagan on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-nature-of-product-marty-cagan-silicon-valley-product-group/* Matt Mochary on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-fire-people-with-grace-work-through-fear-and-nurture-innovation-matt-mochary-ceo-coach/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) About this episode(02:46) April Dunford on positioning your product(07:16) Crystal Widjaja on why most analytics efforts fail(11:42) Julie Zhuo on overcoming imposter syndrome(19:14) Shishir Mehrotra’s favorite interview question(23:27) Shishir Mehrotra’s PSHE career growth framework(27:10) Kristen Berman on using behavioral science to improve your product(33:29) Elena Verna on why retention is so important(36:31) Elena Verna on what to put into your freemium product(37:57) Ethan Smith on how people often under-resource SEO(38:46) Ethan Smith on when it’s time to invest in SEO(42:41) Shreyas Doshi’s LNO Framework(50:12) Marty Cagan on why big companies are often bad at product(51:46) Marty Cagan’s four steps to being a good product manager(53:48) Matt Mochary on the power of small teams(57:17) Matt Mochary’s advice for making hard conversations easier(59:05) Other episodes that left a lasting impact(59:40) Thank you for joining me (Lenny) on this incredible journey—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Season 2 is all about product-led growth! And we kick it off with a banger!Elena Verna and I are talking about the insecurity side of content production in a broader scope and package everything inside of "Product-led Growth". Plus memes and trends in the industry :DIt turned out to be an episode that I treasure very much  🌸 . Many great moments:0:00 Elena’s relevance to Leah and how I perceive her LinkedIn content03:30 How Elena treats her LinkedIn as a freemium model08:55 How LinkedIn acquisition is a great fit for our introverted selves11:40 Why we should not hold back from sharing our learnings14:30 Elena’s Impostor Syndrome and how she understands it18:40 Leah’s Impostor Syndrome and how it’s about being curious about the world22:30 Losing a growth mindset as children25:20 How outside expectations crushed Leah in school going forward28:00 B2B Acquisition patterns and the advent of product-led growth32:20 Types of businesses that you encounter in consulting and how to lead them to product-led growth34:50 Sales and incentivization in PLG37:45 Leah’s bid on Product Sales Management a new Product Management specialization39:15 Elena on Growth teams with sales competencies42:10 How to reach out to ElenaElena's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elenaverna/Leah's Linkedin: https://linktr.ee/leahtharinSend us a textLeah on Linkedin / Twitter / Youtube