Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career

Strategies for becoming less distracted and improving focus | Nir Eyal (author of Indistractable and Hooked)

Dec 29, 2023

Nir Eyal, the bestselling author of "Hooked" and "Indistractable," delves into strategies for overcoming distractions and enhancing focus. He discusses the crucial distinction between distraction and traction, emphasizing the value of booking time for deep work. Eyal introduces the 10-minute rule to combat internal triggers and suggests evolving from traditional to-do lists to timeboxing aligned with personal values. He shares insights on identity pacts and creating a distraction-free workspace, offering valuable advice for both individuals and leaders seeking improved concentration.

01:24:42

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Episode guests

Nir Eyal

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Podcast summary created with Snipd AI

Quick takeaways

Identifying and addressing internal triggers is crucial to overcoming distraction and staying focused.

Creating a time-boxed schedule based on personal values helps prioritize important tasks and aligns intentions with actions.

Effective management of external triggers, such as notifications or interruptions, is key to protecting focus and reducing distractions.

Implementing pacts, such as price pacts or identity pacts, can serve as powerful tools to prevent distraction and maintain focus.

Deep dives

Mastering Internal Triggers

The key to overcoming distraction is to understand and address the internal triggers that prompt us to seek escape or avoid discomfort. By identifying and acknowledging these triggers, such as boredom, anxiety, or fatigue, we can prepare ourselves with tools like the 10-minute rule or surfing the urge. This empowers us to recognize that these triggers are just feelings and that we can exert control over them.

Understanding Triggers and Distractions

01:20

Making Time For Traction: never on the day, the day before

01:52

The Key to Being Indestructible and Overcoming Distraction

01:24

Measuring Productivity Effectively

02:18

Intro

5min

Mastering Distraction

19min

Mastering Productivity Through Structured Scheduling

20min

Enhancing Focus and Career Growth: Strategies and Tools

2min

Mastering Focus: Identity and Effort Pacts

10min

Cultivating Agency and Indistractability in Modern Society

4min

Creating an Indistractable Workspace

17min

Proactive Paths to Personal Growth

7min

Nir Eyal is the author of two best-selling books, Hooked: How to Build Habit-Forming Products and Indistractable: How to Control Your Attention and Choose Your Life. He writes, consults, and teaches at the intersection of psychology, technology, and business. His books have sold over 1 million copies in more than 30 languages; he has taught at Stanford’s Graduate School of Business and its Design School; and he has started and sold two startups since 2003. In our conversation, we discuss:

• Strategies for becoming less distractible and improving focus

• The difference between distraction and “traction”

• Reactive work vs. reflexive work and why you should book time in your calendar

• The 10-minute rule to overcome internal triggers and stay focused

• The problem with to-do lists, and what to do instead

• The value of creating a timebox schedule that aligns with personal values and priorities

• The use of pacts as a last line of defense against distraction

• How to develop a high-agency mindset

• Advice for leaders on helping employees improve focus in the workplace

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Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/strategies-for-becoming-less-distractible

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Where to find Nir Eyal:

• X: https://twitter.com/nireyal

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nireyal/

• Website: https://www.nirandfar.com/

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Nir’s background

(04:20) How to become less distractible

(07:43) Understanding distraction and traction

(12:52) The four steps to becoming indistractable

(13:53) Mastering internal triggers

(18:49) Surfing the urge with a 10-minute timer

(23:20) Making time for traction with a timebox schedule

(25:02) How to turn your values into time

(28:36) Booking deep work time

(29:22) Making pacts to prevent distraction

(31:00) The problem with to-do lists

(34:31) The drawback of deadlines

(36:08) Distraction is an emotion regulation problem

(39:54) Hacking back external triggers

(45:03) Preventing distraction with pacts

(48:18) Specific tools to hold you accountable

(53:42) Managing emotions and discomfort

(56:37) Taking responsibility and being high-agency

(01:00:09) Becoming indistractable at work

(01:05:04) Schedule syncing to align with managers

(01:09:36) We are not as hooked on technology as people think

(01:16:00) Life purpose and personal responsibility

(01:17:38) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• Indistractable: How to Control Your Attention and Choose Your Life: https://www.amazon.com/Indistractable-Control-Your-Attention-Choose/dp/194883653X

• Hooked: How to Build Habit-Forming Products: https://www.amazon.com/Hooked-How-Build-Habit-Forming-Products/dp/1591847788

• Dorothy Parker’s quote: https://twitter.com/nireyal/status/1472280598723108866

• “Writing is bleeding” quote: https://www.hemingwaysociety.org/quotation-controversy-writing-and-bleeding

• The Pomodoro Technique Explained: https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryancollinseurope/2020/03/03/the-pomodoro-technique/

• Timeboxing: Why It Works and How to Get Started in 2024: https://www.nirandfar.com/timeboxing/

• Using your working time well - Issue 22: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/time-management-issue-22

• All-In podcast: https://www.allinpodcast.co/

• Nir’s post about “the planning fallacy”: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/nireyal_why-do-tasks-always-seem-to-take-longer-than-activity-7137440438939959297-XIUB/

• How the Ancient Greeks Beat Distraction: https://www.nirandfar.com/tantalizing-distractions/

• Jeremy Bentham: https://iep.utm.edu/jeremy-bentham

• An overview of Sigmund Freud’s pleasure principle: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/nursing-and-health-professions/pleasure-principle

• The Matrix “There is no spoon” scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAXtO5dMqEI

• Outlet timer: https://www.amazon.com/Century-Indoor-24-Hour-Mechanical-Outlet/dp/B01LPSGBZS

• Forest app: https://www.forestapp.cc/

• Focusmate: https://www.focusmate.com/

• Have We Been Thinking About Willpower the Wrong Way for 30 Years?: https://hbr.org/2016/11/have-we-been-thinking-about-willpower-the-wrong-way-for-30-years

• We Need Social Antibodies to Fight the Disease of Distraction: https://nireyal.medium.com/we-need-social-antibodies-to-fight-the-disease-of-distraction-51f9187be016

• The Mere Presence of Your Smartphone Reduces Brain Power, Study Shows: https://news.utexas.edu/2017/06/26/the-mere-presence-of-your-smartphone-reduces-brain-power

• Leading in Tough Times: HBS Faculty Member Amy C. Edmondson on Psychological Safety: https://www.hbs.edu/recruiting/insights-and-advice/blog/post/leading-in-tough-times

• If Tech Is So Distracting, How Do Slack Employees Stay So Focused?: https://www.nirandfar.com/slack-use/

• Managing up: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/managing-up

• Duolingo: https://www.duolingo.com/

• FitBot: https://www.fitbotapp.com/

• Paulo Coelho’s quote: https://twitter.com/paulocoelho/status/416264984188825600

• Alchemy: The Dark Art and Curious Science of Creating Magic in Brands, Business, and Life: https://www.amazon.com/Alchemy-Curious-Science-Creating-Business/dp/006238841X

• The Experience Machine: How Our Minds Predict and Shape Reality: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Machine-Minds-Predict-Reality/dp/1524748455

• Empire of the Sun on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Empire-Sun-Christian-Bale/dp/B001N3JY82

• Sesame grinder: https://www.miyacompany.com/450-014-450-014

• Muji pens: https://www.muji.us/collections/pen-pencils

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

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Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career

Strategies for becoming less distracted and improving focus | Nir Eyal (author of Indistractable and Hooked)

Episode guests

Podcast summary created with Snipd AI

Quick takeaways

Deep dives

Mastering Internal Triggers

Making Time for Traction

Hacking Back External Triggers

Preventing Distraction with Pacts

Creating Effort Pacts to Foster Intimacy

Using Tools to Minimize Distractions

Mastering Internal Triggers and Building Work Culture

Understanding Triggers and Distractions

Making Time For Traction: never on the day, the day before

The Key to Being Indestructible and Overcoming Distraction

Measuring Productivity Effectively

Remember Everything You Learn from Podcasts