#594: Cal Newport and Tim Ferriss Revisit "The 4-Hour Workweek" (Plus: The Allure and The Void of Remote Work, Unsustainable Behaviors, Burning Out, The Cult of Productivity, and More)

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May 17, 2022

In a fascinating discussion, Cal Newport, an associate professor at Georgetown University and bestselling author, interviews Tim Ferriss to revisit the enduring themes of 'The 4-Hour Workweek.' They delve into the allure and pitfalls of remote work and hustle culture, sharing personal stories about redefining productivity. The duo critiques modern communication overload and the fleeting nature of productivity tools. Newport advocates for 'slow productivity,' emphasizing the need for boundaries to combat burnout and suggesting that true progress stems from thoughtful experimentation.

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ANECDOTE

The Break-Up

Tim Ferriss's girlfriend broke up with him because he was always working.
She gave him a photo collage of himself in a suit with a briefcase that said, "Business hours end at 5 p.m."

INSIGHT

The Startup Game

Startups, like professional sports, often favor young, intensely dedicated individuals.
Even in intense environments, things take longer and cost more than expected, so contingency plans are important.

ADVICE

Silicon Valley's Influence

Silicon Valley is a testing ground for new technologies, including remote work.
Constant connectedness makes it hard to disconnect from work without strategies and rules.

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Getting Things Done

David Allen

Getting Things Done (GTD) is a personal productivity system developed by David Allen. The book provides a detailed methodology for managing tasks, projects, and information, emphasizing the importance of capturing all tasks and ideas, clarifying their meaning, organizing them into actionable lists, reviewing the system regularly, and engaging in the tasks. The GTD method is designed to reduce stress and increase productivity by externalizing tasks and using a trusted system to manage them. The book is divided into three parts, covering the overview of the system, its implementation, and the deeper benefits of integrating GTD into one's work and life[2][3][5].

Essentialism

The Disciplined Pursuit of Less

Greg McKeown

In 'Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less,' Greg McKeown argues that by applying a more selective criteria for what is essential, individuals can regain control of their time and energy. The book is divided into sections such as Explore, Eliminate, and Execute, providing practical advice on distinguishing the vital few from the trivial many and eliminating non-essential activities. McKeown emphasizes the importance of clarity of focus, the ability to say 'no,' and living 'by design, not by default.' This approach helps readers achieve more by doing less and making the highest possible contribution in their personal and professional lives.

Built to sell

Creating a Business That Can Thrive Without You

John Warrillow

In 'Built to Sell', John Warrillow provides practical advice on creating a business that can operate independently of its owner. The book is structured around a story where a business owner, Alex, is guided by his mentor Ted to transform his marketing agency into a sellable business. Key lessons include running the company as if it will last forever but being ready to sell at any moment, focusing on a specific, non-customizable product or service, creating a positive cash flow cycle, and hiring a sales team to remove the owner from the sales process. The book emphasizes the importance of making the business repeatable, valuable, and teachable to attract potential buyers.

The Psychology of Money

Timeless Lessons on Wealth, Greed, and Happiness

Morgan Housel

In 'The Psychology of Money,' Morgan Housel delves into the psychological and emotional aspects of financial decisions. The book consists of 19 short stories that illustrate how personal history, worldview, emotions, and biases influence financial outcomes. Housel emphasizes the importance of behavior over knowledge in managing money, highlighting the power of compounding, the dangers of greed, and the pursuit of happiness beyond mere wealth accumulation. He advocates for a frugal lifestyle, long-term perspective, and a balanced approach to investing, stressing that financial success is more about mindset and discipline than about technical financial knowledge[2][3][4].

The 4 Hour Workweek

Timothy Ferriss

In 'The 4-Hour Workweek', Timothy Ferriss presents a step-by-step guide to 'lifestyle design', encouraging readers to question the traditional notion of retirement and instead create a lifestyle that prioritizes freedom, adventure, and personal growth. The book teaches how to outsource life tasks, automate income, and eliminate unnecessary work using principles like the 80/20 rule and Parkinson’s Law. Ferriss shares his personal journey from a corporate workaholic to a location-independent entrepreneur and provides practical tips and case studies to help readers achieve similar results. The book emphasizes the importance of focusing on high-value activities, taking 'mini-retirements', and living life to the fullest in the present rather than deferring enjoyment until retirement.

The 4-Hour Body

An Uncommon Guide to Rapid Fat-Loss, Incredible Sex, and Becoming Superhuman

Tim Ferriss

In 'The 4-Hour Body,' Tim Ferriss shares the results of over a decade of self-experimentation and research, involving hundreds of elite athletes, dozens of MDs, and thousands of hours of personal testing. The book covers more than 50 topics, including how to lose weight quickly, gain muscle without steroids, sleep less and perform better, and improve sexual health. Ferriss emphasizes the importance of finding the smallest changes that produce the biggest results, making it accessible for readers to achieve significant improvements in their physical health and performance.

Deep Work

Rules for Focused Success in a Distracted World

Cal Newport

In 'Deep Work', Cal Newport argues that the ability to perform deep work—professional activities in a state of distraction-free concentration—is becoming increasingly valuable in our economy. The book is divided into two parts: the first part explains why deep work is valuable, rare, and meaningful, while the second part presents four rules to transform your mind and habits to support this skill. These rules include 'Work Deeply', 'Embrace Boredom', 'Quit Social Media', and 'Drain the Shallows'. Newport provides actionable advice and examples from various successful individuals to help readers master the skill of deep work and achieve groundbreaking results.

Digital Minimalism

Cal Newport

In 'Digital Minimalism', Cal Newport argues that we need to be more intentional about the technologies we allow into our lives. He proposes a philosophy of digital minimalism, where individuals focus their online time on activities that strongly support their values and ignore the rest. The book highlights the negative effects of behavioral addictions created by technology, such as solitude deprivation and the fleeting nature of social media satisfaction. Newport suggests a 30-day 'digital declutter' process and other practices to help readers integrate digital minimalism into their lives, emphasizing the importance of optimizing technology use to support personal goals and values[2][3][5].

The 4-Hour Chef

The Simple Path to Cooking Like a Pro, Learning Anything, and Living the Good Life

Tim Ferriss

In 'The 4-Hour Chef', Tim Ferriss uses cooking as a vehicle to teach 'meta-learning', a step-by-step process for mastering any skill quickly. The book is divided into five sections: Meta-Learning, The Domestic, The Wild, The Scientist, and The Professional. It includes tips and stories from world-class chefs, athletes, and other experts, and focuses on overcoming common obstacles in learning and cooking. The book aims to make readers self-sufficient in the kitchen and in life, applying principles of failure points and margin of safety to ensure success.

A World Without Email

Reimagining Work in an Age of Communication Overload

Cal Newport

In 'A World Without Email', Cal Newport argues that the constant digital communication, which he terms the 'hyperactive hive mind', has become a productivity disaster. He contends that this workflow, driven by email and other messaging tools, reduces profitability, slows economic growth, and makes workers miserable. Newport proposes a workplace where clear processes, not haphazard messaging, define task management. He advocates for each person working on fewer tasks but doing them better, with significant investment in support to reduce administrative burdens. The book lays out principles and concrete instructions for streamlining important communication and reducing the central role of inboxes and chat channels in the workplace.

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Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is my job to deconstruct world-class performers to tease out the routines, habits, et cetera that you can apply to your own life.

In this episode, past podcast guest Cal Newport interviews me for an article he ended up writing for The New Yorker titled “Revisiting ‘The 4-Hour Workweek’: How Tim Ferriss’s 2007 manifesto anticipated our current moment of professional upheaval.”

Who is Cal? Cal Newport (calnewport.com) is an associate professor of computer science at Georgetown University who previously earned his PhD from MIT. His scholarship focuses on the theory of distributed systems, while his general-audience writing explores intersections of culture and technology.

Cal is the author of seven books, including, most recently, Deep Work, Digital Minimalism, and A World Without Email. He is also a contributing writer for The New Yorker and the host of the Deep Questions podcast.

You can find my interview with Cal at tim.blog/calnewport, and you can find the 2007 talk at SXSW that launched everything at tim.blog/sxsw.

Please enjoy!

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Some of the first cracks in my post-Princeton life that hinted at the unsustainable nature of Silicon Valley workaholic culture and led me toward a realization that The 4-Hour Workweek might be a book worth writing. [07:36]

The fatal flaw in my first startup that ensured I wouldn’t be able to easily sell it. [17:22]

A snapshot of Silicon Valley in the early 2000s: a prototyping and testing ground for new technologies and a hotbed of hustling. [22:16]

Cal says I mentioned email four times in the opening six minutes of my first South by Southwest talk. In retrospect, what bigger problems did this portend, and how was my approach somewhat transgressive, considering the audience? [26:44]

Defying the cult of productivity to be more effective than efficient with the 80/20 principle (aka Pareto’s law). [39:43]

On slow productivity and playing your own game while understanding the rules by which other people play theirs.[44:33]

How the launch of this podcast was, in a sense, a reexamination of what my own game was after working on The 4-Hour Chef turned out to be more a labor of labor than love. [47:57]

My mindset going into that first South by Southwest speech in 2007 and how I tried to make the pain points of efficiency relatable rather than presenting them as judgment against my go-getting, startup-hustling audience. [50:41]

If prioritizing your own self-care inconveniences other people from time to time, so be it. (To the people pleasers in the audience, please reread that last sentence to yourself a little louder until it sticks.) [53:50]

After the South by Southwest speech, what was the general reception like? What points seemed to resonate most with people? [56:44]

How a mutual friend put concepts presented in The 4-Hour Workweek to work and changed his own life, how some of those concepts that were radical when the book was published 15 years ago are now considered commonplace, and which concepts I hope continue to gain momentum. [1:00:56]

How the COVID-19 pandemic suddenly made the work-disrupting scenarios posited in The 4-Hour Workweek viable alternatives to the status quo rather than intangible, impossible thought experiments, though some challenges remain. [1:06:40]

Pop culture references to The 4-Hour Workweek and common misinterpretations of its primary tenets that come from casual skimming and second-hand sources. [1:10:38]

Digging deeper, why do so many readers who pick up the bestselling productivity and time management books seem to miss the points they’re really trying to make? [1:15:57]

Cal’s optimistic parting thoughts that society is finally catching up with what The 4-Hour Workweek was trying to convey. [1:20:58]

For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast.

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Past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show include Jerry Seinfeld, Hugh Jackman, Dr. Jane Goodall, LeBron James, Kevin Hart, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jamie Foxx, Matthew McConaughey, Esther Perel, Elizabeth Gilbert, Terry Crews, Sia, Yuval Noah Harari, Malcolm Gladwell, Madeleine Albright, Cheryl Strayed, Jim Collins, Mary Karr, Maria Popova, Sam Harris, Michael Phelps, Bob Iger, Edward Norton, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Neil Strauss, Ken Burns, Maria Sharapova, Marc Andreessen, Neil Gaiman, Neil de Grasse Tyson, Jocko Willink, Daniel Ek, Kelly Slater, Dr. Peter Attia, Seth Godin, Howard Marks, Dr. Brené Brown, Eric Schmidt, Michael Lewis, Joe Gebbia, Michael Pollan, Dr. Jordan Peterson, Vince Vaughn, Brian Koppelman, Ramit Sethi, Dax Shepard, Tony Robbins, Jim Dethmer, Dan Harris, Ray Dalio, Naval Ravikant, Vitalik Buterin, Elizabeth Lesser, Amanda Palmer, Katie Haun, Sir Richard Branson, Chuck Palahniuk, Arianna Huffington, Reid Hoffman, Bill Burr, Whitney Cummings, Rick Rubin, Dr. Vivek Murthy, Darren Aronofsky, and many more.

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