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The DemystifySci Podcast
Is There Really a Hard Problem of Consciousness? - Dr. Joscha Bach, Artificial Intelligence Researcher
Jun 13, 2023
04:31:19
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Quick takeaways
- The podcast explores the mysterious origins of consciousness, challenging the concept of a 'hard problem'.
- It discusses the intersection of mathematics, philosophy, and computation in exploring consciousness and reality.
- Regenerative medicine experiments raise questions about the transition from chemistry to biological molecules.
- The dialogue connects cellular behaviors to consciousness through resonant waves and biological mechanisms.
- Comparisons are drawn between bacteria's adaptive complexity and robotic functions, highlighting metabolic flexibility.
- Philosophical debates delve into consciousness, free will, dreams, and the essence of feelings in existence.
Deep dives
The Origin of Life and Cellular Organization
Life is viewed as starting with the formation of the first cell, but the challenge lies in synthesizing the components to create a functional cell. Michael Levin discusses a different perspective, emphasizing that the driving force behind life may be will or desire, suggesting a shift from viewing organisms as mechanical systems to entities guided by volition.
Significance of Computational Frameworks in Understanding Universe
The universe is conceptually understood as a computational system, where mathematics and computation are fundamental tools for modeling and describing its dynamics. Mathematics serves as a notation system to represent relationships and behaviors, providing a way to comprehend complex physical and biological phenomena.
Philosophy, Mathematics, and the Nature of Computation
Mathematics is seen as a universal language to describe physical processes, while philosophy aims to address metaphysical questions beyond mathematical formalism. The intersection of mathematics, philosophy, and computation serves as a platform to explore complex concepts such as consciousness and the fundamental nature of reality.
Intriguing Exploration of Regenerative Medicine and Life's Complexity
The podcast delves into regenerative medicine experiments that alter planarians' body plans without affecting DNA, challenging the concept of life and cellular organization. It raises questions about the transition from chemistry to biological molecules and explores the blurry line between them found in deep biospheres.
Insights on Cellular Will and Consciousness
Discussions touch on the concept of cellular will, drawing parallels between cells' specialized behaviors and societal roles influenced by environmental factors. The conversation explores the idea of consciousness, will, and desires in systems, emphasizing the mysterious origins of ideas and creative processes.
Applying Analog Resonance to Digital Systems and AI Challenges
Analog resonance's importance in music production and its potential translation to digital systems are considered. The conversation extends to AI's inability to mirror complex human experiences due to limitations in understanding and replicating resonance, representing a challenge in creating true artificial general intelligence.
The Challenge of Consciousness and Mechanisms of Explanation
Exploring the challenge of consciousness and the difficulty in explaining it through mechanisms alone. The exchange delves into the complexities of mathematical and linguistic representations, causal relationships, and the role of biology in producing consciousness. The conversation touches on the philosophical zombie experiment, the role of harmonic waves, and the significance of resonant states in the brain.
Resonance in Consciousness: From Waves to Biological Processes
Discussing the concept of resonance in consciousness and how it can be understood through processes akin to waves. The conversation highlights the interplay between resonant waves, biological mechanisms, and the nature of experience. Through examples like sonication and cellular behaviors, the exploration connects the fundamental aspects of waves to the complexities of consciousness.
Transformative Processes in Cellular Behavior and Consciousness
Linking cellular behavior to consciousness and how even at the cellular level, mechanisms akin to waves and resonant states can drive actions and experiences. The dialogue draws parallels between the functional interactions in cells and the intricate processes involved in shaping consciousness, emphasizing the underlying mechanical nature of experience.
Consciousness and Self-Concept
The discussion delves into the intricacies of consciousness, highlighting that the experience predates the cell itself. The emergence of self-awareness and the distinction between attentional self and personal self are explored. It questions whether bacteria possess the attentional self necessary for consciousness, contemplating the necessity of singling out features for true consciousness.
Complexity and Adaptability
Comparisons are drawn between the complexity of bacteria and robotic functions like a soccer-playing robot. The podcast reflects on the adaptability of bacteria, noting their stunning metabolic flexibility. It juxtaposes the adaptive capabilities of bacteria with the rigidity of a soccer-playing robot, emphasizing the inherent functional complexity within simple biological systems.
Philosophical Debate on Consciousness
The discussion evolves into a philosophical debate on consciousness, free will, and dreams within existence. It contemplates the importance of utility functions, internal landscape understanding, and the essence of feelings. Different perspectives on the fundamental nature of reality, physics, and the existence of consciousness are explored, reflecting on the challenges in reconciling diverse viewpoints in the context of physical and experiential realities.
Joscha Bach is a German artificial intelligence researcher and cognitive scientist who works on on cognitive architectures, mental representation, emotion, social modeling, and multi-agent systems. We got connected over the hard problem of consciousness - namely, why do people seem to think itās so hard? During our conversation we deal with the foundational questions of the technological future being built in Silicon Valley, the fever dream of machine intelligence, and try to understand why people seem to think that thereās even such a thing as the hard problem of consciousness in the first place.
(00:00:00) Go! (00:04:09) Career Advice (00:11:31) Beauty, Grace, & Hotness (00:13:48) Putting on Airs (00:22:32) Patreon Ask (00:22:33) Winning for the sake of winning (00:29:35) Transformative experiences (00:36:25) Speciation event, or crap again? (00:42:17) Who is Joscha Bach (00:52:39) Physics & Causality (01:00:52) Physics vs Biology (01:12:16) Life vs Cells (01:20:14) Biosynthetic AGI (01:28:15) Creativity & Novelty (01:38:52) Wetware & Neuromorphic computing (01:50:46) The Limits of Hardware (02:05:07) The value of Agency (02:15:47) Layers of Society (02:35:03) Chimp Empire (02:52:31) Collapse (03:05:13) The Hard Problem (03:43:28) Computer Imagination (04:02:52) How reasoning works (04:14:28) Reward Functions (04:20:01) Consciousness dreams (04:25:35) The heart of the disagreement (04:30:15) Consensus
Support the scientific revolution by joining our Patreon: https://bit.ly/3lcAasB Tell us what you think in the comments or on our Discord: https://discord.gg/MJzKT8CQub #AGI #consciousness #machinelearning Check our short-films channel, @DemystifySci: https://www.youtube.com/c/DemystifyingScience AND our material science investigations of atomics, @MaterialAtomics https://www.youtube.com/@MaterialAtomics Join our mailing list https://bit.ly/3v3kz2S PODCAST INFO: Anastasia completed her PhD studying bioelectricity at Columbia University. When not talking to brilliant people or making movies, she spends her time painting, reading, and guiding backcountry excursions. Shilo also did his PhD at Columbia studying the elastic properties of molecular water. When he's not in the film studio, he's exploring sound in music. They are both freelance professors at various universities. - Blog: http://DemystifySci.com/blog - RSS: https://anchor.fm/s/2be66934/podcast/rss - Donate: https://bit.ly/3wkPqaD - Swag: https://bit.ly/2PXdC2y SOCIAL: - Discord: https://discord.gg/MJzKT8CQub - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/DemystifySci - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/DemystifySci/ - Twitter: https://twitter.com/DemystifySci MUSIC: -Shilo Delay: https://g.co/kgs/oty671
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