Basically, I try to take over during the first five minutes of the episode as I talk about hope.  Then I pass the mic over to Jason and you will probably actually like what he says much more.  I just try to sprinkle in anecdotal comments as I can, you’re welcome. Hope is a handhold for wives in the following ways… 1 - it gives women a sense of security in the middle of what is a very chaotic experience. 2 - it can reconcile staying. 3 - it can be a reprieve from the chaos that she is experiencing with him. 4 - it can be something that can help her feel sane. 5 - it gives her a way to reconcile that all the years weren’t lost. Then I chime in with:  hope is a key ingredient that we have to have.  It doesn’t just help with a semblance of security - it IS security.  And yet…at the same time, hope can be a handcuff (holding her back) in the following ways... 1 - because everything orbits around recovery. 2 - because it betrays her intuition and better judgment. 3 - because it can cause her to question her faith. 4 - because she is signing up to stay in a revolving door of pain. 5 - because it forces her to decide between herself and the kids. 6 - because if she doesn’t hope - she will be the bad guy. 7 - because it feels like life is defined by betrayal. We then have a couple of side discussions - initially, I am honestly just trying to figure out where to place this guy (that Jason is speaking of) that betrays his wife, does all this recovery work and then says he is going to just let her go.  We make no progress in this conversation and move to... We then talk about how in mid-recovery, we in some ways had to sit in a place of figuring out how to like each other again, be roommates again, be husband and wife again, etc.  Honestly, I think both Jason and I wondered - after all that hard early work - if what we salvaged was really worth it.  The good news is:  it was a season and it did pass.  So my encouragement to each of you is to keep going. We then go BACK to this guy that is just going to let his wife go (after betrayal, discovery, disclosure, and years of work:!).  I clearly can’t let this go and ultimately have some opinions, that I will leave to the recording. And the final side conversation has to do with deferred hope and how we can get stuck in this place.  Naming it is powerful and so I hope having these words (if they apply) will help you, too! We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6. "Hope anchors the soul" is from Hebrews 6:19. “Hope deferred makes the heart sick but a longing fulfilled is a tree of life” is from Proverbs 13:12. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.   Would love for you to consider joining me at the Fall 2024 Retreat - you can join the wait list here.  Would also love for you to join me in the 2Q Boundary Class - registration opened last week. For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast.

Get out your thinking caps - this episode is heady and I had to rewind many many times to re-listen while I was working on these show notes.  We are talking empathy (and intimacy and conviction) today.  I believe that empathy is one of the key ingredients that will help her heart heal within the context of the couple-ship.  So developing empathy is KEY. We talk neuroanatomy:  prefrontal cortex, mirror neurons, cortical hypofrontality and modeling of empathy from others.  We also talk biblical anthropology:  the holy spirit interacting with our spirit and in that there can be a cultivation of conviction, humility, a sense of our own brokenness, love, and repentance. It’s the interplay between the two of these - the neuranatomy + the biblical anthropology that help cultivate empathy.  Both - And. Action Items for men that are struggling to find conviction or have more of a self-depricating conviction (which can lead to empathy): Write your story or revisit your written story and where the wounds are from childhood. Two book recommendations (see below) Reflect on:  what am I afraid of when coming to terms with the depths of my depravity? Be aware of your “depravity floor” - and come to terms with the fact that we can all do bad things on really good days and thus need ALL of God’s grace. We end by sharing a list of things that can help with developing empathy: Doing a formal disclosure well Modeling from other men that are empathic (accountability group, coach, therapist, etc.) Story work / root work Living with sobriety / integrity (acting out AND acting in) Gratitude Tilling the soil of your heart (for her) Ultimately - empathy and intimacy go hand in hand.  As Jason said - intimacy is the antidote, at every turn. We hope this is helpful for you guys! We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6. The two books that Jason recommended:  Abba’s Child by Brendan Manning and With by Skye Jethani Episode #6 is one you can also refer to for more on empathy - The Importance of Empathy (not Sympathy). Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.   Would love for you to consider joining me at the Fall 2024 Retreat - you can join the wait list here.  Would also love for you to join me in the 2Q Boundary Class - registration opens TODAY. For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast.

In this episode, we get real honest about a recent series of arguments we had about money, with the intent of sharing with you guys what engaging in conflict can look like in “late recovery”.  Not that we do conflict perfectly or recovery perfectly (as you will surely hear) but we get questions about what life looks like today - years and years post betrayal and with a lot of recovery work under our belts, collectively.  We laugh a LOT today.  And we have a really sweet marriage.  And we STILL do a lot of arguing and disagreeing. Ultimately, you are going to hear a mix of hurt, triggers, acting in, and being known / fully knowing one another in a deeper way as we unpack our recent disagreements.  Getting to a place where Jason can speak into what I can’t see (and vice-versa, at times) has been the sweetest gift and is truly what safe, trusted intimacy is all about. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6. Wired for Intimacy is the book that I read a quote from in regards to intimacy. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.   Would love for you to consider joining me at the Fall 2024 Retreat - you can join the wait list here.  Would also love for you to join me in the 2Q Boundary Class - join that wait list here. For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast.

In this episode, we talk about the value of the full disclosure and some of the reasons that doing a full disclosure (for both him and for her) is incredibly beneficial.  Here are some of those reasons: - for men:  integration of the story and the acting out - as in, making sense of and connecting dots in his story as a whole which informs the recovery and healing process - for men:  writing out our stories has been shown via research to help with the healing process at a cellular level - for women:  knowing the truth of our lives helps facilitate the process of forgiving (not to mention it restores honor to know the truth) - for women:  knowing the truth of his life can eventually help us tap into empathy for him, which in turn helps aid in forgiveness - for men:  to help uncover the “why” of the acting out (the roots) - for men:  an opportunity for rebuilding trust - for women:  helps her get unstuck and sets her on a course to truly grieve what has happened - for both:  a marker / foundation for them to build upon - for women:  the ability to integrate the truth of her life into her story (just like he does) - for women:  witnessing him cultivating ownership (such an important character trait we need to see in him) - for men:  it’s Biblical We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6. Pennebaker is the researcher out of UT Austin that has shown the impact of writing out our stories to significantly help our bodies heal. James 5:16 - confess you sins so that you may be healed. John 8:32 - the truth will set you free. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.   Would love for you to consider joining me at the Fall 2024 Retreat - you can join the wait list here.  Would also love for you to join me in the 2Q Boundary Class - join that wait list here. For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop. Click here to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast.

In this episode, we piggyback off of the last episode on Frontloading and discuss how women can leverage this technique in order to feel safe having certain conversations with him. This technique is essentially giving him a heads up that a difficult conversation needs to be had + insuring he is in an open space to have said conversation well in advance of it starting. I love this technique because it serves as an insurance policy to help protect her from additional hurt and pain. (And can also be considered a gift for him because he isn’t being put on the spot and can prepare his heart for the conversation.) Jason suggests the following when she approaches him asking for a difficult convo: shush the negative thoughts, control the narrative, and finally - pivot to empathy (this is all happening in the space between the frontload and the actual convo). For women - this is applicable when you are wanting to share your heart (whether you feel hurt, fear, anxious, unsettled, etc.), needing to express a need and/or when you are seeking clarity. This technique is not applicable if you are experiencing immediate triggers and pain or as an “prescriptive edict” (where she demands versus where she expresses what she needs). It can be super helpful to get in touch with what you are feeling and START with that when you sit down to have the conversation. For husbands - focus first on the feelings expressed, meet her there; not solving the problem SO that she doesn’t have those feelings. This will help you hear her heart around the request. Bigger picture, keep in mind: When she front loads, her desire is for you to accept what she is bringing to the table; and less about her trying to accommodate you (by front loading). We hope this tool helps her bring up the harder conversations and helps him meet her heart with tenderness and empathy. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.   Would love for you to consider joining me at the Fall 2024 Retreat - you can join the wait list here.  Would also love for you to join me in the 2Q Boundary Class - join that wait list here. For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast.

In this episode, we talk about Frontloading, a term we first heard from Jennifer Kolari after doing some parenting therapy with her. See the link below for her information. Frontloading is the conversation we have prior to an anticipated event (or an anticipated conversation). Keep in mind, it's about a heart attitude, not about a playbook / plan / script. This heart attitude says two things: 1 - Empathy and tenderness will inform me going into this situation well, and 2 - I don’t have to fear fall out. The point of frontloading is to be prepared FOR the hurtful stuff, versus making sure NO hurtful stuff exists. Big picture - a couple of things for men to keep in mind: 1 - It’s an educational experience for guys - Husbands are going to learn how she perceives and experiences different situations. 2 - Process it for yourself prior to talking to her about it. Ask yourself: How does this situation impact my integrity and what do I need to protect that? How does this situation impact her heart and what do I need to protect her heart? Four things to think about as you are front loading an anticipated event: 1 - Thinking about and anticipating what will happen emotionally in that situation for you (him) and for her in this anticipated event. 2 - What is going to happen during the anticipated event that taps into your wounds / her wounds? 3 - What do I need at the beach? What does she need at the beach? 4 - What are the expected actions that I will take during this anticipated event? Keep in mind: this is not one and done (one plan this weekend won’t be the same plan next weekend). Have the SAME conversation next week for the next anticipated event. In addition, don’t deviate from the original plan unless there is a conversation that happens WELL ahead of time. Frontloading can be useful in the following situations: prior to travel, prior to being with extended family, prior to being in public (together), as a strategy to help him lean in when there is intense intimacy aversion, overall early on in the recovery process to establish safety and to build trust. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6. To find out more about Dr. Jennifer Kolari - you can click here. "A righteous man doesn’t have to fear bad news.” is found in Psalm 112:7. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.   Would love for you to consider joining me at the Fall 2024 Retreat - you can join the wait list here.  Would also love for you to join me in the 2Q Boundary Class - join that wait list here. For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast.

In this episode, we talk about her getting stuck and how this can be (not always, but can be) connected to him NOT doing good, consistent work. Jason recaps a couple of things from episode #68 - What is Good Work (definitely check out that episode if you want to learn more about what “good” work looks like - see the link below.) We discuss four big things that can cause her to get stuck in the process (when he is not doing good work). These include: 1 - When there isn’t clarity on if he is doing good work or not (when she simply isn’t sure) OR when it seems like his level of good work changes on the daily / weekly / monthly. 2 - Difficulty (for her) in identifying needs and boundaries - this is a huge area where women can get stuck, when they struggle to identify what they even need. 3 - Unconscious vows she has made to herself. 4 - When staying the same isn’t more painful than making a change - this can also cause her to get stuck. In the podcast episode, we are specifically referring to setting boundaries and the price we pay as women to set those big boundaries. The less good work he is doing - the more boundary setting we have to do in order to heal. 5 - Mixed Signals from him (similar yet different to #1, above.) We then shift gears and talk about strategies to get you unstuck: 1 - Get clarity on if he is doing good work (or not). Take Jason’s advice and go with the graph of a stock analogy for this. You can also consider these journal prompts: How is he helping my heart heal? How is he hurting my heart from healing?2 - Get clear on your needs and boundaries. Journal out: What are the top five things I need to feel safe in my marriage?3 - Journal out - What do I think, want, need and feel? (See Chapter 3 in the Rescued workbook.) 4 - Naming the vows you have made and then Journal out: Are these vows still working for me? We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6! Episode #68 goes into greater detail about what good work is - you can listen to that here. And while we are at it, the “sister” episode (haha!) I referred to when talking about vows was Episode #69, which you can listen to here. Here is a link to the Rescued workbook. I also refer to Episode #47 - When He Chooses Not to do the Work, which you can listen to here. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.   Would love for you to consider joining me at the Fall 2024 Retreat - you can join the wait list here.  Would also love for you to join me in the 2Q Boundary Class - join that wait list here. For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast.

So, let’s say he is doing mostly good work. Oftentimes when he is doing this mostly good work, women are faced with a dilemma. Does she accept the good work and lean into it and trust it? OR does she hold him / the good work at arm’s length and continue to watch and wait and keep herself safe? We start with exploring some of the reasons she runs into this dilemma. These include:  1 - Unconscious tug of war happening in her heart. 2 - Vows she has made to herself. 3 - Not knowing if she can trust herself. 4 - The vulnerability of it all. 5 - Invalidation of her pain.   I loved it when Jason said - "The husband that has done the work doesn’t say 'why can’t we just move on' - this comment serves as a red flag that he HASN’T done the work". Bottom line ladies: work toward naming the root of the dilemma and THEN you can ask yourself - what do I want to do about it? (With gentleness, of course!) Jason then speaks directly to husbands about some to do’s if this is the situation the couple finds themselves in:   1 - Consistency + small deposits matter - Jason says, "consistency of small deposits builds trust in order for her to get out of the dilemma”. 2 - Control the narrative in your head. 3 - I’ve got you and I’ve got us. Ultimately, my encouragement to women is that this is a part of the process and what’s important is to be able to name it and then figure out what you want to do about it, with gentleness. I loved Jason’s final thought - there is no clock. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6! For the episode mentioned on Equanimity (#12) - click here. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.   Would love for you to consider joining me at the Fall 2024 Retreat - you can join the wait list here.  Would also love for you to join me in the 2Q Boundary Class - join that wait list here. For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, Masterclasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop. Click here to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast.

So what exactly is good work? And what does good work look like AFTER the initial stages? Because it seems like some husbands rock that good work early on - and then… they are done?! Jason and I are both encouraging you guys to honestly assess: are the things we list happening in my / his recovery process? And if not - what might it look like to get back on track? Some of the “good work” is objective (for instance, the formal disclosure or the amount of acting in). But a lot of this “good work” is less concrete. Here we go: Quantitative v Qualitative - it’s good to be doing the quantitative work but we must look to see - is there fruit coming out of it? It’s the qualitative work that we will hang our hat on - so consider: what quality is coming from the recovery work he is doing? Early Good Work - it all starts with radical honesty. Followed by: willingness to be wrong, willingness to be led, willingness to talk through and engage conversations, willingness to be held accountable, sincere effort and interest to understand himself / the roots of his behaviors, a revulsion to things that lack sexual integrity, a willingness to honor your wife’s needs, being at war with yourself + open access. Mid-Recovery Work - tenderness from him and sitting with her in her pain, steadfastness and him being in the process for the long haul, him leading her well, moving from sobriety to character change, recovery becoming a way of life, empathy becomes an intentional thing that he WANTS to give, being steady while the cement dries, focusing on intimacy aversion / acting in. Love it when Jason said this: In early recovery - her safety is his assignment. In mid recovery - he internalizes that her safety is his responsibility. And then in late recovery - he knows her safety is his privilege. Good work does not end after early recovery. Women deeply desire for their husbands to go the distance with them and to do the mid-recovery work well. Our hope is that this is exactly what each of you (husband) will choose to do. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6! Shelley mentions episode #40 - Mid-recovery - Making the distance between surviving and thriving for more details on mid-recovery. For the episode on Acting In / Intimacy Aversion - check out episode #25 and episode #26. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here. We would love for you to consider joining me at the Fall 2024 Retreat - you can join the wait list here.  Would also love for you to join me in the 2Q Boundary Class - join that wait list here. For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast.

In this episode - we are diving in to a question that Shelley receives quite regularly - why did you stay? And were you / are you embarrassed that you chose to stay? We start with talking about some of the reasons that can make it embarrassing to stay - for instance, in our culture - there is this notion that when a woman is cheated on, there must be something wrong with her / something she did. I loved it when Jason said - “no amount of bad marriage necessitates or drives infidelity or betrayal”. I’d like to print this on a sticker or a t-shirt - anyone want one?! Another reason that it can be really hard and even embarrassing to stay is when he is not doing the work (or is doing work some of the time but not consistently) and DIGNITY is not restored. This is critical to the couple ship process - for what has been stripped from her (dignity) to be restored. We share several other reasons - what I think is important is for each of you to NAME what makes it embarrassing to stay and then also decide what is true / what isn’t true with your reasoning. We then pivot to talking about some of the reasons I chose to stay with Jason at the fresh, young age of 26. I initially talk about giving myself permission to sit in the in-between and not make a quick decision. Let me be really clear (because I’m not sure if I was in the podcast episode) - while this is not a reason I stayed, it did help me tremendously in being able to make the choice, one way or another. I didn’t put pressure on myself to make a decision and I allowed myself to embrace the discomfort of not knowing which way to go. Ultimately, I chose to stay because Jason completely changed. At a heart level. More than anything - he owned his brokenness and failures. And I wasn’t willing to stay with him if he was just sober and nothing more. I realized after all the hurt and all the pain - that he was still the man of my dreams. And I wanted to try to do life with him. I knew it was risky but the thought of not taking the risk wasn’t something I could wrap my head around. And finally - I realized and waited for God to show me the way, it was just too big of a decision for me to make on my own. Even when I received clarity from God - I questioned if it was real (similar to Gideon and the fleece situation in Judges chapter 6 (see below)) and asked for more clarity. Ultimately - I’ve been able to hang tight to sign God gave me through the years. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6! For an article on What I Would Have Done Differently, written by our beloved Amy Garcia - click here. For the podcast on what we would have done differently (it’s episode #2) - click here. Here is a link to the passage from Judges 6:11-40. Would LOVE for you to join me at the Spring Retreat - click here for more information.  We have ONE spot left! Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.  You will find the Threats Assessment as well as the Bow-Tie Diagram + Video. For more information on RL Academy, click here. Would love to connect with you on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason’s list, Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast.