
Playing With Fire
Welcome to Playing With Fire, the podcast for people who are ready to custom-build their love.
We’re talking about non-monogamy–however you design it–as an individuation opportunity.
Want to leave the default and make your life spectacularly you? You’re in the right place.
Latest episodes

Nov 9, 2024 • 49min
177 Shadow Dance: Navigating Projections in Relationships
The word projection gets thrown around a lot these days, often in an accusatory way (think, “so-and-so is projecting!”). But projection is actually a normal, unconscious psychological process that shows up in all relationships!That doesn’t mean we should let our projections go unchecked. They can interfere with our ability to truly see our partners as whole, autonomous beings.The good news is that when we become aware of our projections, we have a powerful opportunity to uncover and reclaim the parts of ourselves we’ve denied and disowned. And these aren’t always deep, dark shadowy parts—they can also be positive traits like creativity or intelligence.In this episode, we explore what projection is, how it shows up in relationships, and why reclaiming these “shadow” parts is essential for personal growth. Tune in to learn how working through projections can deepen your connections and help you see yourself—and your partners—in a whole new light.We’re breaking down:— What psychological projection is and how it operates in our subconscious minds— The role of projection in falling in love, limerence, and new relationship energy— How projection can interfere with seeing our partners as sacred, autonomous beings— The stages of becoming aware of and working through projections— Why reclaiming projected qualities is essential for personal growth— How projection relates to childhood wounds and unresolved issues from the past— The dangers of over-identifying with negative projections or shadow qualities— Practical strategies for recognizing and working with projections in relationships— The value of patience and compassion when addressing projections with a partnerResources mentioned in this episode:— Carl Jung's Collected Works (This is the Wikipedia page, to give you an idea of what the CW contains. If you’re looking for a good place to begin reading Jung’s work, Joli suggests Memories, Dreams, Reflections)— PWF Episode 164: I HATE THIS: Get Unstuck with Existential Kink (A shadow work method)JOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support. Registration is open now at www.TheYearOfOpening.comAre you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.comLearn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart wayGet the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for an Ask Me Anything hereMusic: Dance of Felt by Blue Dot Sessions

7 snips
Nov 2, 2024 • 42min
176 Dismantling Defensiveness
Explore the hidden dangers of defensiveness in relationships and how it stifles growth and intimacy. Discover how childhood experiences shape our defensive patterns and the surprising connection between ego protection and personal creativity. Learn practical techniques for recognizing defensiveness, embracing vulnerability, and fostering empathy through effective communication. The conversation encourages self-awareness, accountability, and the transformative power of asking questions to create deeper, more meaningful connections.

Oct 26, 2024 • 42min
175 Coming Out as Non-Monogamous: Risks, Rewards, & How To Get Ready
Coming out as non-monogamous can bring its own set of challenges and concerns, especially if you also hold other marginalized identities. And maintaining the social appearance of monogamy can come at a cost.In this episode, we’re exploring the risks and rewards of sharing your non-monogamous identity. And, if you do want to come out to the people in your life, we’re breaking down some key steps you can take to get ready for whatever reactions may come your way.We’re breaking down:— Why coming out conversations can be important for authenticity and relationship health— The different "circles" of people you might consider coming out to (family, friends, work, etc.)— How geographical location and social context can impact coming out experiences— The importance of considering and discussing your partners' comfort levels and boundaries— Practical tips for planning and executing coming out conversations— Why it's okay to not have all the answers when you're first exploring non-monogamy— How to handle potentially invasive questions— Addressing the potential turn-on of secrecy in non-monogamous relationships— The value of celebrating your authentic self when coming outResources mentioned in this episode:— Episode 89 of Playing with Fire: Learning the taxonomy of non-monogamy— Laura Boyle's book Monogamy, in This Economy?— The work of Sunny Megatron, Midori, and Mollena Williams-HaasJOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support. Registration is open now at www.TheYearOfOpening.comAre you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.comLearn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart wayGet the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for an Ask Me Anything hereMusic: Dance of Felt by Blue Dot Sessions

Oct 19, 2024 • 35min
174 Social Monogamy: The Impact of Maintaining Your Mono-Image
It’s totally normal and understandable to want privacy around your relationships. Especially in a culture that can be less than understanding towards non-monogamous people.And, maintaining the social appearance of monogamy (AKA social monogamy), can come at a cost. For some people, maintaining social monogamy can lead to feelings of disconnection and inauthenticity. You can also get into some messy territory around consent and secrecy with your partners, especially if you have different privacy preferences.We’re not here to tell you how to live your life. We are here to help you navigate these tricky issues, and to help prepare you for the possibility of coming out as non-monogamous in the future.In this episode, we talk about:— The concept of default monogamy and how it shapes societal expectations— The differences between social monogamy, compulsory monogamy, and non-monogamy— The challenges of maintaining social monogamy while practicing non-monogamy— The potential impact of secrecy on relationships and personal well-being— Why it's important to have conversations about relationship visibility early on— How maintaining social monogamy can reinforce mono-normative structures— The complexities of coming out as non-monogamous, especially when children are involved— Why it's crucial to revisit decisions about relationship visibility periodically— The reality of discrimination against non-monogamous individuals and relationshipsResources mentioned in this episode:— Angela Willey's academic papers on compulsory monogamy— Elizabeth Emmons' legal paper on monogamy assumptions— Emily Nagoski's work on desire and relationshipsJOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support. Registration is open now at www.TheYearOfOpening.comAre you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.comLearn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart wayGet the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for an Ask Me Anything hereMusic: Dance of Felt by Blue Dot Sessions

Oct 12, 2024 • 35min
173 Getting off the Relationship Escalator (Or Choosing Not To)
Dating → becoming exclusive → moving in together → getting married → having kids. This is the assumed trajectory that all relationships will take. If you’ve already started exploring non-monogamy, you have some experience with breaking the mold. But even in non-monogamous relationships, it’s common to find yourself slipping back into the relationship escalator framework.This path is so ingrained, it’s easy to feel pressure, both internal and external, to fit your life into its rigid set of steps.We’ve been there, and we continue to work every day to question our own assumptions and tendencies. In this episode, we’re helping you reimagine relationships and relationship security beyond the confines of the relationship escalator.In this episode, we talk about:— What the relationship escalator is and how it shapes our expectations— Different types of escalators beyond just romantic relationships— Why getting off the escalator can be psychologically challenging— How to question relationship norms and make space for alternatives— The importance of building security outside of traditional relationship structures— Practical ways to shift language and interactions to be more inclusiveResources mentioned in this episode:— Amy Gahran's book Stepping Off the Relationship Escalator— Dr. Bella DePaulo’ book Single at HeartJOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support. Registration is open now at www.TheYearOfOpening.comAre you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.comLearn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart wayGet the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for an Ask Me Anything hereMusic: Dance of Felt by Blue Dot Sessions

Oct 5, 2024 • 38min
172 Grieving Change: A Crucial Relationship Skill
We do so much grieving in our lifetimes. And not just about the deaths of loved ones—every time there is a change in our lives, we lose an old version of something. That loss can bring up big feelings, and channeling those feelings into an intentional, conscious process of grieving can be hugely beneficial for your life and your relationships.Grieving relational change is a skill, and we made this episode to help you start building that skill, and to explore the complex web of emotions that come up when relationships evolve.In this episode, we talk about:— Expanding our understanding of grief beyond just death and loss— The difference between grieving and mourning— Why even positive changes can bring up feelings of grief— Real, imagined, conscious, and subconscious relationship futures— How to grieve the "imagined future" when relationships shift— The importance of acknowledging and processing grief during relationship transitions— Different methods of mourning, including rituals and symbolic action— Why avoiding grief work can keep us stuck and slow personal growth— How to approach grieving as a rite of passage— The value of community support when processing relationship changesJOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support. Registration is open now at www.TheYearOfOpening.comLearn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart wayAre you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.comGet the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for an Ask Me Anything hereMusic: Dance of Felt by Blue Dot Sessions

Sep 28, 2024 • 53min
171 Why Self-Agreements Will Make or Break Your Relationships
If you have a hard time keeping relationship agreements, you probably also have a hard time keeping the agreements you make with yourself. If that’s you, or if you’ve never even tried to make self-agreements, you have to listen to this episode.This process shouldn’t feel like a punishment—I want you to make agreements with yourself that you actually want to uphold. And that’s not always a straightforward process. If you’re struggling, you’re so not alone. This isn’t entry-level work—it requires real skill-building, and we’re breaking down that learning process so you can start fostering integrity and consent with yourself.In this episode, we talk about:— Why some people struggle to stick to the agreements they've made— How past relationship experiences and attachment styles influence our approaches to agreements— The role of unconscious factors in undermining our commitments— Why self-agreement keeping is the first step to keeping agreements with other people— The benefits that come with not naturally being good at upholding agreements— Balancing flexibility with reliability in relationships— How to create effective response plans for when agreements aren't met— The importance of written agreements and reminders— Why punitive consequences often backfire, and how to use educative repercussions instead— Practical tools for improving agreement-making and follow-throughResources mentioned in this episode:— Gretchen Rubin’s 4 Tendencies Quiz— PWF Episode 149 Relationship Agreements 101— PWF Episode 150 Asymmetric AgreementsJOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support. Registration is open now at www.TheYearOfOpening.comLearn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart wayAre you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.comGet the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for an Ask Me Anything hereMusic: Dance of Felt by Blue Dot Sessions

Sep 21, 2024 • 45min
170 Jealousy & Attachment Panic
Jealousy is often misunderstood as mere insecurity, but it's a complex emotion intertwined with attachment and personal experiences. This conversation unpacks jealousy’s multiple facets and challenges the belief that it's only a negative feeling. Learn strategies to manage jealousy effectively, including nervous system regulation techniques and communication strategies. Discover how self-compassion and patience can help you create a 'jealousy rescue plan' and improve your relationship dynamics.

Sep 14, 2024 • 42min
169 Q&A Quickie: Why am I having such a hard time sticking to my agreements?
Relationship agreements are awesome. They can take you from a place of ambiguity and assumptions to a place of clarity and transparency. But what happens when the hardest part of relationship agreements is… actually… fulfilling them?? It can leave you feeling defeated and sh*tty.
If you relate to that feeling, this episode is for you. There might be some tender spots, shadowy patterns, or subconscious desires hiding beneath the surface, and we’re going to help you unearth them. We’re also going to walk you through some crucial steps in the process of accountability and repair with your partner(s).
In this episode, we’re talking about:
— Ken’s struggles with keeping relationship agreements around timing and logistics
— The importance of accountability after agreements have been broken
— Determining whether or not a relationship is safe and in alignment with your needs after agreements are broken
— Making agreements based on your values, and the difference between aspirational values and lived values
— The power of nervous system regulation during the agreement-making and repair processes
— How shadow work connects to struggles with relationship agreements
— Awareness vs acceptance of patterns
— The subconscious narratives that can underlie weaponized incompetence
— Why differentiation is vital to the agreement-making and -keeping processes
— Why this predicament can be strong material for your individuation journey
— The power of iterative agreements instead of fixed ones
Resources mentioned in this episode:
— PWF Episode 149 Relationship Agreements 101
JOIN The Year of Opening community for a full year of learning & support. Registration is open now at www.TheYearOfOpening.com
Are you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.com
Get the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for an Ask Me Anything here
Music: Dance of Felt by Blue Dot Sessions

Sep 7, 2024 • 57min
168 Ethics, Responsibility, and the Changing Landscape of Non-Monogamy with Eve Rickert and Andrea Zanin
Eve and Andrea created a book that I wish I had 15 years ago when I was making the transition from monogamy to non-monogamy. And I don’t say that lightly (if you know me, you know I have a LOT of polyamory books on my bookshelves).
The new edition of More Than Two is a testament to Eve and Andrea’s thoughtfulness and integrity as writers. They incorporated their evolving perspectives on ethics, relationships, and the world into their book, and the result is magical.
They cover the stuff that many authors shy away from in the non-monogamy space. Power, abuse, ethics, responsibility—even though these subjects can be loaded, they deserve ample attention, and we’re covering it all in this PWF episode.
In this episode, we’re breaking down:
— Why they decided to create a new edition “More Than Two”
— What’s covered in Andrea’s new book “Post Non-Monogamy and Beyond”
— The concept of “post-non-monogamy” and the fluidity of relational experiences
—Responsibility, ethics, and intersectionality in the non-monogamous community
— The complexities of ethical frameworks in non-monogamous relationships
— The challenges that come with negotiating attachment and boundaries
— Eve and Andrea’s take on abuse in the conscious-relating sphere
— The importance of self-awareness in maintaining ethical relationships
— The broader societal and political context of the world and how it has influenced our approaches to non-monogamy
— Thorn Apple Press, Eve’s publishing company, and its mission to elevate diverse voices in the non-monogamy community
Resources mentioned in this episode:
— More Than Two (second edition): Cultivating Nonmonogamous Relationships with Kindness and Integrity, by Eve Rickert with Andrea Zanin, out September 2024
— Post Non-Monogamy and Beyond by Andrea Zanin
— Thorn Apple Press
— Andrea Zanin's Twitter
— Eve Rickert’s website and blog
JOIN The Year of Opening community for a full year of learning & support. Registration is open now at www.TheYearOfOpening.com
Are you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.com
Get the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for an Ask Me Anything here
Music: Dance of Felt by Blue Dot Sessions