TGS Podcast

Is the search for the perfect measurement leading to imperfect decisions? It turns out that many Marketing teams may be fighting the wrong attribution battle. They're running the risk of obsessing over building the perfect model, while their actual marketing performance gets worse.We recently spoke to Barbara Galiza, a Growth and Marketing Analytics Consultant with experience at Dentsu and WeTransfer, about why attribution has become a bit of dangerous obsession — and what to do about it.Here are the three biggest takeaways that could change how you think about marketing measurement:Takeaway #1: The "One source of truth" is a dangerous mythOne of the most common attribution mistakes that Barbara outlines is companies spending months building comprehensive models, and then trusting them completely for budgetary decisions. Big mistake. Here’s why: A company spends a great deal of time implementing pixels from every ad platform, building a multi-touch attribution model, and feeling confident they finally understand their marketing performance.Then, they start shifting their budget around based on the model’s recommendations — often resulting in cuts to brand marketing and video campaigns, in order to invest more in search. The rest is that sales, most often, go down. The issue is that the model missed the unmeasurable stuff that actually drives conversions. YouTube ads, out-of-home campaigns, and influencer marketing don't show up in most attribution models because they don't start with trackable clicks. The desire for perfect attribution often leads to imperfect marketing decisions. Companies end up optimizing for what's measurable rather than what's necessarily profitable. It makes an unclear situation merely seem clear. Takeaway #2: Every channel needs its own measurement approachInstead of building one massive attribution model, smart companies measure each marketing channel differently based on how it actually works:* For magazine ads, you might use voucher codes. * For YouTube campaigns, you could run incremental tests in specific geographic markets. * For influencer marketing, self-reported attribution ("How did you hear about us?") often works better than trying to track clicks.Issues crop up when teams try to everything the same way for the sake of consistency. After all, paid search is perfectly measurable because it starts with a trackable click. Most other marketing activities don't work that way, and that's okay.This approach requires accepting that some marketing activities will never be as measurable as something like paid search. But cutting them because they're hard to track often kills the activities that make your measurable channels work.Ultimately, the goal is not perfect measurement. It’s smart budget allocation. Sometimes that means accepting imperfect data around high-impact activities.Takeaway #3: Start with business questions, not attribution modelsDuring our conversation, Barbara noted that most companies approach attribution backwards. They build sophisticated models first, then try to use them for decision-making. Barbara recommends flipping this approach.Start with specific business questions: Which channel should get more budget? Is our brand marketing working? How do we improve lead quality? Then figure out the minimum viable measurement needed to answer those questions.For companies just starting out, Barbara's advice is simple: "If you're only running one channel, then just have the ad platform pixel on it. Don't overcomplicate it."The measurement complexity should match your marketing complexity. Running multiple channels across different customer touchpoints? You need more sophisticated measurement. Running primarily search and LinkedIn ads? Keep it simple.Barbara also emphasizes the difference between data for reporting and data for optimization. Attribution events for ad platforms need to fire quickly to help algorithms optimize. Attribution for budget allocation can be more complex and take longer to calculate.Don’t build attribution models for the sake of having them. Build them to answer specific business questions that will change how you allocate resources.The bigger pictureIf we take a big-picture view, the obsession around attribution comes from a very understandable place: the pressure to prove marketing value. But that same pressure to show that you deliver and actually delivering aren't the same thing. Sometimes they can even be the opposite. Barbara suggests that companies often overcomplicate attribution because they're trying to justify every marketing dollar. But measurement is supposed to be a competitive advantage, not a reporting exercise.The goal shouldn’t be to have perfect attribution. It's whether you have the ability to make better marketing decisions.Want to hear the full conversation with Barbara Galiza? Listen to the complete podcast episode for deeper insights on lead scoring, stakeholder management during attribution battles, and why AI won't solve your measurement problems. Check it out here.Episode highlights 👇 00:00 – Barbara's story / Entering the world of attribution 05:50 – Discovering attribution gaps 08:05 – Breaking myths around crafting the perfect attribution model 12:02 – Stakeholder management during the battle with attribution 13:49 – Building an attribution model from scratch 20:36 – Measuring the quality of the traffic 23:28 – Lead scoring and attribution 36:19 – Aligning sales and marketing 40:06 – Fixed Q&A 45:00 – Kudos and Facepalms This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com

Let's paint a picture: your leadership team just spent three months debating which CRM to buy. Meanwhile, 80% of your workforce is still using paper forms and bulletin boards to get their jobs done.These are your frontline workers. The people in manufacturing plants, warehouses, retail floors, and field operations who actually make your business run. And, chances are, they're completely invisible to your technology investments.We just had Merel van der Lei, CEO and CPO at Wyzetalk, on the podcast to talk about this exact problem. And how it isn't just an operational hiccup — it's a revenue leak.Episode Highlights👇01:14 – Introduction to Merel's story08:43 – Introducing Wyzetalk and the 4 pillars of growth18:01 – Prioritizing the right feedback to build a valuable product24:11 – Integrating feedback collection points within your product26:06 – Moving from product to being a CEO32:53 – UX as a revenue driver36:49 – The benefits of disrupting with UX40:05 – Examples of successful UX iterations43:30 – Fixed Q&A56:19 – Rapid fire questions This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com

What does it take to build a SaaS product without a clear market leader?Find all of the answers in the latest episode of Grow with the Flow where Clément Dumont and Georgi Furnadzhiev sit down with Ward van Gasteren, a growth consultant for giants like TikTok, Pepsi, Cisco, and Nestlé, co-author of Growing Happy Clients, and founder of Growth Orange—an experiment management tool for growth teams. This episode is a must-listen if you're building in a purple ocean—a market with no defined demand, benchmarks, or buyer expectations. Inside the episode: ✅ Lessons from working with 8-figure brands and building scalable growth teams ✅ Why retention is the biggest growth lever ✅ How to define minimum valuable experiments ✅ What's like building a software in untapped market Whether you're growing a new product, leading a growth team, or trying to break out of the acquisition hamster wheel—this episode will give you a new lens on how sustainable B2B SaaS growth really works. --- Useful links: Connect with Ward on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wardvangasteren/ Check out Growth Orange: https://www.growthorange.com Follow The Growth Syndicate on LinkedIn: /thegrowthsyndicate Check our exclusive community for B2B Marketing leaders: https://www.thegrowthsyndicate.com/community Take part of the TGS CON 2025 - A vetted conference for 200 founders and GTM experts: https://www.thegrowthsyndicate.com/conference Highlights👇 02:18 – Introduction to Ward's story 08:09 – What makes successful companies stand out 09:01 – How to deal with companies where ego plays a huge role 13:20 – Building effective growth teams 22:12 – Defining minimum valuable experiments 23:49 – Insights from "Growing Happy Customers" 25:30 – Tips for writing a book 28:38 – Growing a SaaS in a non-developed category 35:48 – Finding your purple ocean 54:35 – Chatting about the TGS Community 59:29 – Retention as the main driver of growth This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com

Is SEO really dead or it's just your playbook?Let's find the answer together in the newest episode of Grow with the Flow, where Clément Dumont and Georgi Furnadzhiev sit down with Baptiste "Baba" Hausmann, an award-winning SEO expert who helped companies like Mollie, Tellent and many more turn their SEO strategies into real growth engines.If you’re still thinking of SEO as keyword stuffing and link-building… it’s time to update your playbook.As always, we had lots of fun talking to Baba while covering various topics including:✅ SEO evolution before and after AI ✅ The role the modern SEO Team✅ Connecting SEO to revenue ✅ A step-by-step SEO guide for a fake company (case study)✅ Keyword discovery & advanced research tactics Stick with us to the end to learn more about optimizing your brand for AI rankings!Whether you’re seasoned generalist or SEO expert this episode will help you embrace the new revenue-driven SEO playbook. ---- Useful links: Connect with Baba on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/baba-seo/ Check out Baba's SEO playbook https://www.baba-seo.com/seo-revenue-playbook Follow The Growth Syndicate on LinkedIn / thegrowthsyndicate Check our exclusive community for B2B Marketing leaders https://www.thegrowthsyndicate.com/community ----- Highlights👇 2:24 – Introduction to Baba’s story 8:06 – The evolution of the SEO playbook before and after implementing AI 12:51 – The role of the SEO team 18:18 – Building a growth engine following the new SEO playbook 22:09 – Taking your SEO engine from 1 to 1000 28:09 – Keyword discovery as part of your SEO engine 32:02 – Researching for SEO 37:57 – Optimizing your SEO playbook for AI ranking 41:14 – Baba’s biggest SEO success story 46:09 – Short answers from Baba 52:38 – Kudos and Facepalms 56:18 – LinkedIn post about SEO 58:27 – Rapid fire questions This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com

Expanding Into new markets? Most SaaS teams get it wrongScaling into multiple markets sounds exciting—until reality hits. We see most SaaS teams rush in without a solid foundation, leading to wasted resources, missed opportunities, and slow adoption. Already feeling the pressure? Come Join us for another podcast episode of Grow with the Flow where Ferdinand Goetzen and Clément Dumont sit down with Jean Bonnenfant, a serial growth leader for companies like Growth Tribe, Trezy, and currently Lleverage. Jean has trained over 5,000 professionals at companies like ING, Philips, and PWC while coaching over 200+ startups. This conversation is packed with hard-learned lessons from the old days, so make sure not to miss out on it! As always we covered a bunch of topics including: ✅ The hard truth about localization – Why native experts make or break your global expansion ✅ What types of companies make the most money – And why “boring” businesses are often the most profitable ✅ A brief introduction to Web3 growth – What’s different, what works, and what doesn’t ✅ The power of qualitative data – Why every growth leader should balance numbers with deep insights and so much more! Let's dive into the episode 👇 --- Useful links: Connect with Jean on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/growth-hacking-speaker/ Check out Lleverage https://www.lleverage.ai/ Follow The Growth Syndicate on LinkedIn / thegrowthsyndicate Subscribe to our Substack for exclusive insights -https://thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com Check our exclusive community for B2B Marketing leaders https://www.thegrowthsyndicate.com/community --- Highlights 02:21 – Introduction to Jean's story 14:01 – Facing the hard truth about localization 20:09 – Building courses for big clients 25:03 – Boring businesses get the most money 29:09 – Jean's experience within Web3 growth 36:44 – Short questions 41:09 – Facepalms and kudos 46:54 – Rapid fire This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com

Does your company really understand the role of product marketing? Let's try to find the answer to some of the biggest questions around the topic including: - When should you invest in product marketing? - How does the role evolve as your company scales? - And what separates great product marketers from the rest? Join us for the latest episode of Grow with the Flow, Clément Dumont and Joliene van Grieken sits down with Ashley Herbert Popa, a searial head of Product Marketing for some companies Sendclound, Tellent and Virtuagym. Within the episode we covered various topics including: ✅ The real role of product marketing in B2B SaaS ✅ Kickstarting the product marketing function (even as an early-stage company) ✅ Gathering customer insights & competitive intelligence effectively ✅ Balancing between strategy & execution as a product marketer and most importantly, answering if the product marketing be its own function! If you want to sharpen your go-to-market strategy and build a product marketing function that truly drives impact, this episode is for you! --- Useful links: Connect with Ashley on LinkedIn / https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashley-herbert-popa-561b6930/ Check out Sendcloud https://www.sendcloud.com/ Follow The Growth Syndicate on LinkedIn / thegrowthsyndicate Check our exclusive community for B2B Marketing leaders https://www.thegrowthsyndicate.com/community Episode Highlights: 1:07 – Ashley’s story: From the US to Europe & into product marketing6:47 – What is product marketing, really?7:48 – The role of product marketing in B2B SaaS9:50 – How to build a product marketing function from scratch11:52– Setting boundaries as a product marketer14:22– Gathering customer insights to influence product & GTM17:27– Competitive intelligence: How great product marketers do it20:27 – The role of product marketing in early-stage vs. late-stage companies23:22– Delivering value as a product marketer in early-stage B2B SaaS28:45 – Should product marketing be a standalone function or part of GTM?33:10 – Fixed Q&A: Hard lessons, best practices & hot takes45:45 – Why product marketing & demand gen don’t always mix52:07– Rapid-fire: Product marketing trends, biggest mistakes & the future This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com

Looking for a great underdog story? 👀 In this episode of Grow with the Flow, Ferdinand Goetzen and Clément Dumont sits down with Maxim Poulsen—a growth leader at Contrast who has also built a massive digital presence across multiple channels. If you’re not a big brand, don’t have a huge following, and feel like an underdog in your space—this episode is for you. LinkedIn isn’t just for influencers or established companies. With the right strategy, you can position yourself as a category leader. Inside this episode, we cover: ✅ Pivotal moments in Contrast’s growth journey ✅ A step-by-step guide to building high-performing LinkedIn carousels ✅ How Maxim became a top B2B thought leader and so much more! And so much more! ---- Useful links: - Connect with Maxim on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/maximpoulsen/ - Upgrade your webinar game with Contrast https://www.getcontrast.io/ - Follow The Growth Syndicate on LinkedIn / thegrowthsyndicate - Subscribe to our Substack for exclusive insights https://thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com - Check our exclusive community for B2B Growth professionals https://www.thegrowthsyndicate.com/community Episode Highlights: 01:12 – From underdog to LinkedIn authority 05:12 – The simple strategy to get your team posting 09:12 – Should you hire LinkedIn influencers? 13:12 – The truth about LinkedIn growth timelines 17:12 – How to craft a high-impact 5-slide carousel 22:12 – Tactical hacks vs. long-term marketing strategies27:12 – Will video help underdog brands win on LinkedIn? 30:12 – Maxim’s lessons from leading growth at Contrast 35:12 – Rapid-fire Q&A 45:12 – Facepalms & kudos This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com

Does your marketing team still focus solely on generating MQLs?In the latest episode of Grow with the Flow, Joliene van Grieken and Ferdinand Goetzen sits down with Justyna, founder of The Marketing Waiting Room, Growth Mentor, and Lecturer at the Business School of Rotterdam.From leading growth teams to building her own thriving solopreneur business, Justyna has mastered the art of keeping marketing simple and effective. In this episode, we uncover:✅ How to discover your "marketing enemy" and use it to stand out✅ Whether MQLs really tell the full story behind success✅ What exactly is a Marketing Waiting Room✅ How to measure mental availabilityOh, and we had to ask her about her viral take:👉 Does the funnel even exist? If you’re in marketing, growth, or thinking of going solo, this episode is for you!Useful links👇- Connect with Justyna on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/justyna-ciecierska/- Build a waiting room with Justi https://www.marketingwaitingroom.com/- Follow The Growth Syndicate on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/thegrowthsyndicate- Subscribe to our Substack for exclusive insights -https://thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com/- Check our exclusive community for B2B Growth professionals https://www.thegrowthsyndicate.com/communityEpisode Highlights 02:08 – Justyna’s journey: From growth leader to thriving solopreneur06:15 – What to expect when working with Justyna10:15 – Balancing short-term wins and long-term strategy as a marketing leader18:23 – Measuring mental availability in marketing21:02 – Inside Justyna’s thought leadership engine26:15 – The power of making bold brand choices29:15 – How to build a B2B thought leadership engine from scratch32:15 – The role of mentorship in career and business growth34:15 – Best practices for outreach and finding the right mentor36:28 – Fixed Q&A: Controversial opinions, biggest mistakes, and key takeaways49:08 – Breaking down Justyna’s viral LinkedIn post52:12 – Rapid-fire questions: Funnels, new vs. established markets, solopreneurship, and more This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com

Ever struggled to make your B2B SaaS truly stand out? Messaging can make or break your ability to attract, convert, and retain customers. The sad part? Too many companies get it wrong. In this episode of Grow with the Flow, Clément Dumont and Ferdinand Goetzen sits down with Diane Wiredu, founder of Lion Words and one of the top B2B SaaS messaging experts, to break down how companies can achieve message-market fit, sharpen their positioning, and build brands that resonate,As always, we had a ton of fun covering various topics including: ✅ Diane’s journey: From in-house translator to soloprenuership ✅ Why companies struggle to differentiate—and how to fix it ✅ The ROAR framework for clear, compelling messaging ✅ The toughest stakeholder battles and how to win them and so much more! Tune in for a masterclass in messaging—packed with actionable insights for B2B SaaS leaders, founders, and marketers who want to sharpen their brand’s voice. If you enjoy the episode, subscribe, rate, and share—it really helps us grow! ----- Useful links👇 - Connect with Diane on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/dianewiredu/ - Explore Lion Words https://www.lionwords.com/ - Follow The Growth Syndicate on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/thegrowthsyndicate - Subscribe to our Substack for exclusive insights -https://thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com/ - Check our exclusive community for B2B Growth professionals https://www.thegrowthsyndicate.com/community Episode Highlights: 00:00 - Diane's journey into messaging 08:40 - Differentiation in messaging vs. positioning 12:20 - Balancing messaging and positioning 16:50 - The role of stakeholder management in messaging projects 26:30 - The importance of customer research 40:10 - Key messaging mistakes companies make 46:30 - The nuance of headline length in messaging 53:15 - AI's role in crafting messaging 1:01:00 - Diane's perspective on the Jaguar rebrand controversy 1:10:45 - Favorite tools for 2024 1:15:00 - Diane Recommends a Book 1:17:00 - Rapid-fire questions This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com

Can your marketing team truly create demand?Join us for our first internal podcast with Ferdinand Goetzen, Joliene van Grieken, and Tobias Liebsch, where we dive deep into all things related to demand generation.As always, the team had a blast covering key topics, including:✅ Allocation of resources for effective demand generation✅ The power of "Category Entry Points" to sharpen your content marketing✅ The different types of demand and how to leverage them for B2B growth… and much more!Got burning questions? Let us know and we’ll tackle them in future episodes.Useful links👇Follow The Growth Syndicate on LinkedIn / thegrowthsyndicateCheck our website if you need help with building your growth engine https://www.thegrowthsyndicate.com/ This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com