The Copywriter Club Podcast

For the 235th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we’re joined by Jill Wise. Jill is a brand and marketing strategist, conversion copywriter, and business coach. As much as she’s dedicated to her craft and her clients, she’s also driven to create an authentic online presence. Pushing through the noise and the “rules'' of what she’s supposed to do online, she’s been able to showcase who she truly is and attract clients who align with her same brand values. Don’t miss this episode all about being more YOU in a crowded space while serving your clients at the maximum level. In this episode, we dive deep into: •  Going from a side-hustle to full-on copywriter. •  How to break the rules the RIGHT way and feel great about it. •  Creating a safe space for clients and allowing open communication right from the discovery call. •  The step-by-step process of a white-glove experience and making sure your clients are supported every step of the way. •  Why an automated system can be a great addition to your business and enhance your workflow and respect your boundaries. •  3 tips to enhance productivity and getting your ideal schedule defined. •  How to shift mindset from freelancer to business owner and what it will do for your business. •  The question: Should you give your client a to do list? •  The truth about showing up online and finding your true voice •  The secret to building discipline—no, it’s not a trait you're born with •  The ins and out of solving problems and finding real solutions for clients •  When something doesn’t work… how to reframe, reevaluate, and get back out there •  Why you should add other skills to your repertoire •  How to properly evaluate competitors—mimic or do better? •  When you get the advice to “dumb yourself down…” run! Whether you’re a new freelance copywriter or an established business owner, you’ll gain new insights and ideas on how to project your own business forward. Click the play button below to listen, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Jill’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira:  Does this ring a bell for you? You see what everyone else in the copywriting world is doing. You hear what clients expect and you even get advice from a coach that you need to act just like everyone else to get the thing you want. The game's got rules and if you don't play by them, you'll stay on the bench. That's what Jill Wise, Think Tank mastermind member and our guest for the 235th episode of the Copywriter Club Podcast was told. Play nice, dumb things down, don't rock the boat, or you won't attract the clients you want. But something was off and recently, Jill decided to ignore that advice and be more true to who she is. And in this interview, she revealed her new brand transformation with us. Rob:  Before we share what Jill told us, this podcast episode is brought to you by the Copywriter Think Tank. That's our private mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to challenge each other, create new revenue streams in their business, receive one on two coaching from the two of us, and ultimately grow to six figures or more. If you've been looking for a dynamic mastermind to help you grow as a copywriter and as a business owner, visit copywriterthinktank.com to set up a short information session or email us at help@thecopywriterclub.com with questions. Kira:  The Copywriter Think Tank will help you figure out a lot of the same stuff we cover in this interview with Jill; things like client boundaries, creating better processes and figuring out what your brand stands for. Now, let's jump into our conversation with Jill Wise. Jill:  I graduated university and my husband is a few years older than me, we were dating at the time and he moved to Montreal and I did the thing,

Mindset coach and business strategist, Linda Perry, is back for the 234th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Linda is a recovering copywriter who sheds light on how to make mindset approachable in business. No matter what stage of business, everyone experiences struggles with mindset in one way or another. There's a ton of great advice in this episode. You’ll want to note all the ways you can make mindset practical in your own business. Here’s an inkling of what we talked about: •  The mindset around pivoting and the fear of not making money. •  The sneaky way low-hanging fruit can set you back if you’re not aware, and the better way to handle the low-hanging fruit. •  The truth about being afraid to say no to projects and the feeling of always saying yes to everything. •  The answer to the question: Are you telling yourself stories or facts? •  How to create vision in your business and why it’s the #1 thing to do. •  Why creating boundaries are key to setting yourself up to work the way YOU want to work. •  The reality of overwhelm and why it’s a trap. •  A clear vision is not a financial goal—here's what it really is. •  The 3 steps to let go of the “how” to let your vision thrive Linda’s website Linda’s 1st TCC Episode The Slight Edge by Jeff Olson Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: As a business owner, you get to decide how your business changes over time, whether it shrinks or grows, whether you add products or services, employees or not, it's all up to you. I was trying to think of a metaphor for how this works, but the regular metaphors that we use for transformation, like a caterpillar turning into a butterfly, doesn't really feel like a fit to me here because the process isn't that straightforward and the results that you get, aren't always beautiful. So maybe a better metaphor is playing with LEGO bricks, building one thing and then breaking off pieces to expand it here or there and changing it into something completely different. And oftentimes the colors don't match and the shape isn't perfect. And maybe this thing that you've built, isn't even recognizable to anybody who didn't see you build it or who you haven't told the thing is. And our guest for the 234th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Think Tank alum, Linda Perry. She has dramatically reshaped and changed her copywriting business over the past year. A lot like playing with those LEGO bricks. And while the result is a better business, the process wasn't easy. And in a moment she's going to share exactly what that was like and where she's ended up. Kira: And clearly you have not played LEGO with me, Rob, because my colors do match. My shape is perfect. And the thing I build is always recognizable. Rob: You didn't grow up with the old sets where you only had... Kira: I did. Rob: ...like 15 bricks of blue and 15 bricks of red. Yeah. Kira: I did actually, and I feel like kids are missing out today because it's like, you have your blueprint and you have to make the thing that you purchased and you can just be more creative. So yeah, we can talk about LEGOs. I'm glad you're not talking about butterflies and caterpillars and LEGOs are way more fun. So thank you. And before we hear what Linda has to say, this podcast episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Think Tank. The Think Tank is our private mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to challenge each other, create new revenue streams in their businesses, receive coaching from the two of us and ultimately grow to six figures or more depending on your unique goal and vision. up until last year, we only opened the Think Tank once a year, but today we invite a few new members each quarter. So if you've been looking for a mastermind to help you grow email, help@thecopywriterclub.com to set up an interview. Rob: Okay,

For the 233rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Mariah Phillips shares the secret to building a copywriting business in the nonprofit sector. Mariah is a Digital Marketing Strategist and Copywriter based in Baltimore, Maryland. She teaches entrepreneurs how to market their businesses and tell their stories. If you’ve been looking for a way to make an impact in your copywriting career, give this episode a listen. (Or read.) Here's what we talked about in this interview: •  Mariah’s journey through brand story development and the secret to long standing brands. •  How to write for top nonprofits AND earn a living. •  The right way to build a local community event with the power of words. •  The brilliant way to pivot and share knowledge with others about your expertise. •  A day in the life of an agency writer: sampling 10’s of voices?! •  The truth about going down the rabbit whole. (Can it actually be a good thing?) •  What you need to know about working in fundraising. - and storytelling. •  The formula to learn when writing to people not directly receiving a benefit. •  The better way to navigate a conversation with agencies and their strategy. •  Why you should give more value than your client pays for. •  How to go from scrappy freelance mindset to empowered CEO mindset. •  The quickest, easiest way to NOT connect with your clients. •  Why it’s vital to connect with people where they’re at. •  5 ways you should use the same metaphor. - or shouldn’t. This is an interview you won't want to miss. To hear it, click the play button below. Or school down to read the full transcript below and while you’re reading… subscribe with your favorite podcast app and never miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: Time and time again, guests on our podcast have told us they started copywriting without actually knowing that what they were doing was writing copy. They were just figuring out how to market a product or service and copy was a natural part of the process. That's also true of today's guests for the 233rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Mariah Phillips. Mariah jumped from PR to fundraising to SEO before figuring out that the thing she did best in all of those roles was copywriting.  Rob: Before we share our interview with Mariah, this podcast episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Think Tank. The Think Tank is a private mastermind group for copywriters and other marketers who want to challenge each other, create new revenue streams in their business, receive one on two coaching from the two of us and ultimately grow their businesses to six figures or more. If you've been looking for a mastermind to help you grow, email us at help@thecopywriterclub.com to set up an interview or go to copywriterthinktank.com.  Kira: Now let's jump into our conversation with Mariah.  Mariah: Somehow I've always been a copywriter and didn't know it. So as I worked... I started in corporate America, I worked in a boutique PR firm in then New York Metro area. And so while there, we had to do a lot of brand story development for clients. Some of our clients were global and longstanding brands, and since some of them were brand new and sold quirky things like monocles, like this was their first time ever stepping out. And so my responsibility was to write their brand story, write copy, and even write pitches which isn't necessarily copy, but pitches to the media are making a sale. So, I did that and then I transitioned to working for an ed tech company called 2U, Inc. And in the process there, I started off as a placement specialist for a clinical social work program. And if you don't know anything about 2U, Inc basically they power the biggest universities in the country, they power their online master's programs.

On the 232nd episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, we’ve got Marcus McNeill. Marcus is the co-founder and CEO of Magic based in Boulder, Colorado. He works with purpose-driven companies who seek global impact and change around both the country and world. He’s helped leaders such as Eckhart Tolle and Deepak Chopra spread their missions and messages across the globe. You may want to grab a notepad right away because this episode is full of insights you won’t want to miss. In this episode, we discussed: •  How a conscious-based life can radically shift perspective. •  Why learning from Deepak Chopra became the greatest catalyst to vulnerability and openness. •  The secret to going from monkey mind to observing thoughts with confidence •  How an agency helped in decriminalizing magic mushrooms. - and the key marketing components needed to make such an impact. •  How to create multiple avatars for one campaign and nail their personal values to make an impact. •  The ingredients behind asking people to change their buyer behavior and trust a new brand. Is it possible? •  Where copywriters are getting their customer avatars wrong and why they should spend more time in the research. •  How copywriters have the power to truly make an impact and difference around the world. •  What you need to know before starting an agency and what should come first. •  The reality of growing a business - why it’s okay to take a step back, so you can take two steps forward. •  3 ways you can gain clients and close sales like it’s nothin’. •  How to maximize customer experience and become a partner with your client. •  The client comes first, right? Think again, when your team is connected and nurtured, great work follows. •  The truth about combining business and wellness. Can the two coexist? •  Why small impact matters and how it can be the first magic step. This episode might leave you thinking about impact and copywriting in a whole new light. To hear it, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. And of course, you should subscribe with your favorite podcast app to ensure you never miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Our Event for Copywriters Marianne Williamson The E-myth Revisited by Michael Gerber Jonny Stellar Magic Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob:  If you're a longtime fan of this podcast, or I guess any other podcast, you've probably had the experience of listening to a guest share their story and what they learned, and then had to reach for a pen and paper to capture the ideas that they're sharing, so that they don't get lost, or so that you don't forget them. Maybe you've even had to pull off the road as you were driving, or tell your kids to be quiet so that you don't miss something that you could use in your business.  That's exactly how we felt more than a handful of times in this interview. Our guest for the 232nd episode of the Copywriter Club Podcast is Marcus McNeill, the founder of Magic. And as we spoke to Marcus, we found ourselves taking more notes than usual, trying to capture the wisdom that he shared about building his business. Fair warning, you might want to grab a pen and a notebook, or pull off to the side of the road, as you listen to this episode.  Kira:  Before we share our interview with Marcus, this is the last week for a while that this podcast is brought to you by TCC, Not in Real Life, our event for copywriters and other smart marketers. And the reason for that? Well, it's just about the last week you can get a ticket for our event, which happens April 7th through the 9th. If you want to learn firsthand from experts like Joanna Wiebe, Todd Brown, Jereshia Hawk, Joel Klettke, Eman Ishmael, and so many more. You need to get your ticket today. To do that, visit thecopywriterclub.com/tccirl-1.

On the 231st episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, we’re joined by Sara Vartanian. Sara is a launch strategist and copywriter, but before that, she was a teacher and e-commerce business owner. She’s really done it all. After obtaining vast knowledge of the copywriting world through her e-commerce business, Sara has been able to grow her presence and establish herself as an authority in the online space. If you’re ready to create an effective lead magnet and begin building your email list, then you’ve come to the right place. Some of what we cover, includes: •   how to carry over skills from teaching into copywriting, plus two tips on being a better mentor. •   why giving less is more and how to charge for value rather than trying to give away your soul for pennies. •   when it may be time to let go of clients who are no longer serving you and open up space for new opportunities. •   how to create strong boundaries right from the sales call and how to stick with them. (No matter how hard it may be.) •   the secret to putting yourself in front of the right communities in order to build genuine relationships and establish authority. •   creating a lead magnet your ideal client wants AND needs •   the right and wrong ways of building an email list - are pop ups the way to go? •   why the “omg, you get me email” is crucial to building a relationship right away. •   4 emails that need to follow the first in your welcome sequence •   the truth about launching...do you need to have all the bells and whistles? •   3 ways to manage your energy during a launch. •   why it’s vital to set clear expectations about launch copy. •   the single most important component of driving sales to a launch. •   the sneaky way to get more people in the doors for your product. (or your client’s) •   a better way to handle burnout and sustain productivity and creativity. •   the secret to viewing comparisonitis in a positive light and where to find the best support in your copywriting business. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Best Copywriter Club event of the year! Sara's website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway...

On the 230th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, Rob and Kira are going guestless. They’re sitting back and answering some questions they get frequently among our community. They’re giving their best advice and tips for new and established copywriters who are looking to level up and sustain what they’re building. In this episode, we dive into: •   when you’ll get the chance to build the foundations of your business with us in just 3 months •   the truth about working for free - should you do it? •   how to hire a VA that will pay for themselves. •   9 books we’re reading right now - one genre? Never. •   the #1 question we get asked every. single. day. •   the 3 biggest levers when it comes to pricing your offers. •   how to choose the most profitable niches in copywriting. •   the good and the bad of Clubhouse. (Note: We will be on Clubhouse on Tuesdays at 5PM EST.) •   if you don’t have copywriting samples for a particular project, here’s what you should do. •   the secret to building trust with potential clients. •   what Rob & Kira would do differently if they were beginners. •   success as a copywriter - how we define success •   how to maintain your business as you’re helping scale others. Tune in and listen as we give candid advice on your most asked questions. Hit the play button below or check out the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Club Annual Event - Early Bird Sale Ends March 22nd Done by Noon by Dave Ruel Ready, Fire, Aim by Michael Masterson & Mark Ford Yes to Life by Viktor Frankl Man Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt Facing the Climate Emergency by Margaret Salamon Fair Play by Eve Rodsky The Uninhabitable Earth by David Wallace-Wells Lives of the Stoics by Ryan Holiday The Copywriter’s Ultimate Guide to Using Clubhouse Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:   If you've been listening to the show for the last three plus years, you no doubt have heard us ask hundreds, maybe even thousands of questions to the amazing copywriters and experts who have been on the show. We've even asked a few people to join us and turn the tables to ask us questions. Today we're going guestless for the 230th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, and we're answering the questions that get asked the most often in our free Facebook group, as well as some questions that are asked in our paid programs, like The Copywriter Accelerator and The Copywriter Underground. Kira Hug:   When you say guestless, it makes it sound like we're naked. Rob Marsh:   Does it? Kira Hug:   Like we're missing something. Yeah, it sounds like we're shedding all the layers today and it's just us. Rob Marsh:   Nice. I would hate to think that people would think that we're not clothed here, but yeah, that's ... How embarrassing. Kira Hug:   It's just us today, naked and we're going to answer your questions. Before we do that, this podcast episode is brought to you by TCC(N)IRL, of course it's The Copywriter Club (Not) In Real Life, our event for copywriters and other smart marketers who want to learn from experts like Joanna Wiebe, Carline Anglade-Cole, Todd Brown, Jereshia Hawk, Joel Klettke, Eman Ismail and more than a dozen others. But this event is not just about great presentations, it's not just about sitting at your computer and staring at Zoom all day. It's really about connecting with other copywriters in intimate virtual spaces so you can build real relationships, even possibly friendships, partnerships, and also get a lot of work done while you're with us over the three days. So we're really focused on doing, not just learning, and we're focused on implementation through workshops. So you're not just sitting through a presentation and then going back to your work with nothing to show for it.

On the 229th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, Selena Soo shares it all when it comes to publicity. During a difficult period, Selena began seeking information but found inspiration. Selena became a publicity strategist after stepping into the power of connecting others and helping people share their message with the world. If publicity isn’t something on your mind, it will be after listening in on this episode. In this episode, we cover: •   how to get your ideal client to find you •   why investing in yourself can change the game for your business and life •   the impact of hustle culture and seeking a balance •   when you include publicity, more eyes are on your core message •   the secret to building a strong body of work •   how to use being an introvert to your advantage •   why you need to clear on what you want to be known for •   what kind of media you should be in front of, plus how to decide on mainstream topics •   two techniques you can use to pitch yourself •   when and how to join the right mastermind programs •   why your body of work matters no matter the size •   the quickest, easiest way to amplify your message •   5 things you need to realize when it comes to mindset and pitching •   the truth behind being vulnerable online •   why sharing what’s important to you matters online •   if you’re showing up in any form of media, Selena shares what you need to have prepared New to publicity or maybe you never thought it was THAT important? Think again. You’re about to learn a thing or two from an expert connector. Hit play below! The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: TCC(N)IRL Event 2021 Free Video Series - Impacting Millions Program Selena's blog post about abuse Selena's free calendar Elizabeth Gilbert: Eat Pray Love Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira:   Getting noticed by the right people is a talent. And while we've talked a lot about pitching on this podcast lately, I think we can all agree that life is so much easier when your ideal client finds you rather than the other way around. To get to that place in your business, it sure helps to have publicity, AKA other people sharing your thoughts and ideas on their platforms. That's something we can all use more of, right? Our guest for the 229th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is publicity strategist, Selena Soo. She didn't waste any time helping us figure out what we should be doing to get more publicity for our business. And we think you'll get a ton out of this interview too. Rob:   We'll get back to our interview with Selena in a moment. But first, this podcast episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Club (Not) In Real Life, or TCC(N)IRL. That's our event for copywriters and other smart marketers who want to learn more from experts like Joanna Wiebe, Carline Anglade-Cole, Todd Brown, Jereshia Hawk, Joel Klettke, Eman Ismail, and more than a dozen others. But TCC(N)IRL is about more than just presentations, it's about connecting with other copywriters, helping you to form real relationships, true friendships, and maybe even a successful partnership with another copywriter. To learn more, visit TheCopywriterClub.com/TCCNIRL-2021. And if you don't remember that link, you can find it in the show notes of this episode on The Copywriter Club website. Kira:   Now, let's jump into our conversation with Selena. So why don't you kick off your story just, how did you end up as a publicity and marketing strategist? Salena Soo:   Absolutely. It actually started in my mid 20s when I had a quarter life crisis. I was clinically depressed, I was having trouble eating and getting out of that in the mornings. I reached such a low point that my mom flew from Vancouver, Canada to New York at the time, just to be by my side to help me get through life. And she would get on the subway and take me to wo...

On the 228th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we’re joined by Eddie Biroun. Eddie is a conversion copywriter for e-comm and education brands and a forever learner of his craft. After fumbling into copywriting, he knew it was something he wanted to commit to for the long run. He became intrigued with understanding branding and what truly makes a brand stand the test of time. During our conversation, we talked about going from professional student to professional copywriter and how you can make the same leap. We also talked about: •   why stages of awareness are important and why buzzwords don’t create a connection •   failing and how you can (and should) make it work to your advantage •   how expecting a perfect first draft is like looking for a unicorn •   going from obtaining knowledge and skills in copywriting to putting it into action •   Eddie’s process in downloading the voice of a new client and why it’s important to effective copy •   how your creative artist and managerial side have to be separate when writing the first draft •   why feedback (even negative feedback) is essential to becoming a better copywriter •   choosing projects and people who empower you and respect your craft •   how learning and improving will always be a part of copywriting and it doesn’t need to be something you learn in a day •   how having a mentor speeds up the process because direct feedback is readily available •   where to look for red flags and how using your gut can save you a lot of headaches •   why building a better relationship with your mind will help you tackle imposter syndrome when it comes up (because it does for all of us) •   why taking care of your life side of things is vital to take care of the work side of things •   how copywriters have the power to make other people’s dreams come true (we are wizards after all) •   copywriting isn’t just a flippant task, it’s the infrastructure for long-term success •   why having a morning routine will keep you focused when in the copy cave (did we mention this includes reading?) •   how to navigate through writer’s block when perfectionism or ideas need to be uncovered Need a dose of motivation to stop going into information overload and start applying what you’re learning? This episode with Eddie might do just the trick. Hit the play button below (or read the transcript below!) The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Almanack of Naval How to Create Your Copywriter Website (written by Eddie) Eddie's Instagram Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob:   Getting better at copywriting, this thing that we all do, isn't easy. And sometimes we get stuck in a project, we get stuck getting started or we get stuck struggling to find clients. Our guest for the 228th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Eddie Biroun. Eddie is the kind of copywriter who hates getting stuck and he's figured out what it takes to get moving again when he has gotten stuck. In fact, he's made dramatic improvements over the past year or two in how fast he writes, in the quality of his writing and the kinds of clients that he's working with. We think that you're going to get quite a bit from the experiences that Eddie shares in this interview. Kira:   Before we share our interview with Eddie, this podcast episode is brought to you by TCC (Not) In Real Life, our event for copywriters and other smart marketers who want to learn from experts like Joanna Wiebe, Todd Brown, Jereshia Hawk, Joel Klettke, Momo Price, and so many others like them. But it's not just about speakers and presentations and sitting through more Zoom calls because you don't need that. TCC IRL is really famous for connecting copywriters with each other and helping you to form real relationships, even friendships, potentially partnerships with other copywriters and marketers. To learn more,

On the 227th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we’re joined by content writer Jacob McMillen, who as you'll see towards the end of the episode is an SEO master. Jacob shares his insights on writing great copy and running a content business. Through actively listening and really wanting to help others in his door-to-door sales job, he decided to take the world of copywriting for a spin. Having scaled to 6 figures, we talked about the stages of business as a freelancer and what it really takes to make it. What's more... he’s the #1 search result for “copywriter” on Google. We break down: •   how copywriting can be the good of sales without the ick •   how Jacob went from accounting student (who didn't want to be an accountant) to copy expert •   Jacob’s natural talent for connecting a solution to a problem •   the perfect lucrative combination of marketing •   how batting 5% is crushing the pitching game •   how persistence is necessary in the beginning •   how to get your ideal customer to agitate their own problems •   the ropes of reeling in clients during the early stages •   why putting your eggs in one basket can leave you scrambled •   how Jacob went from 3k months to 20k •   how pitches can be the bread and butter when in need •   how flirting with SEO paid off & created 30+ monthly leads •   how to stand out in 2021 as a new copywriter •   why not to compare yourself to other copywriters •   building a copywriting agency and how it’s not for everyone •   if flipping websites could be the new real estate? •   how new technology cannot replace copywriting geniuses If you’re ready to go from side-hustle to business owner, this episode is worth checking out. Grab a cup of coffee, hit play & start taking notes. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Copywriter Think Tank Empire Flippers Jacob's Website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira:   This week we talked about the different stages of business as a freelancer with our guest, copywriter, and entrepreneur, Jacob McMillen. Jacob is currently the number one US search result for the search term copywriter, which means we should all team up and up our SEO game and challenge his number one spot. Rob:   We'll come back to Jacob's interview in just a moment, but first you should know that this interview is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. That's our incredibly valuable membership for copywriters who are done figuring out things by themselves and want to surround themselves with an awesome community of copywriters. It includes our perfect proposal training, our persuasion course, our new sales course, plus more than 20 templates and dozens of presentations all designed to help you make progress in your business. You can learn more about it at thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira:   Now let's get to our conversation with Jacob. Jacob, we would love to just start with your story, a very detailed story of how you got into copywriting. Do not leave anything out. Jacob McMillen:   Okay. I think it's a relatively fun story. I think you have to start back when I got into sales and unlike a normal person, my start in sales was door to door sales in college. I got roped into doing it one summer. I needed a lot of money. It sounded a little ridiculous, but the numbers made sense to me. So I was like, I'm just going to do it. And I made enough to pay for three years of school in 16 weeks... Not 16 weeks, yes, 12 weeks. And I really enjoyed the sales process. I enjoyed sitting down with someone talking to them, hearing about their needs, connecting what they needed to the solutions I was selling. There were also a lot of things about direct sales that I hated. So after college, I graduated with an accounting degree. Only thing I knew was I'm not going into accounting. So I was like, what's next?

Our guest for the 226th episode of The Copywriter Podcast is Christy Cegelski. Like many people who’ve become copywriters, Christy’s journey to becoming a copywriter was not a traditional one. She learned her marketing and copywriting skills after launching her own FOOD business. She gave us insights on how starting a business the “right” way isn’t the only way. Great results can be achieved by going off the beaten course and by following intuition. If you’re thinking about how your own background could prove useful in your copywriting career, make sure to give this episode a listen. This is how it all breaks down, we talked about: •   how Christy went from mommy blogger to food creator •   how margarita mix made Christy a copywriter •   the stigma of not being paid well as a writer was proving painfully true in the beginning •   her passion working behind the scenes with email funnels, website copy, social media •   the end of the food creation business but the beginning of a new one •   how she became the GO TO for all things websites & emails •   how she was able to grow her email list + social media organically •   how she proved email marketing was never “dead” •   the knowledge she brought into copywriting from her previous business endeavors •   when she knew copywriting was going to be a business •   how she used “the google method” in the beginning to price her offers •   why “figuring it out” in the beginning can be a positive and negative thing •   using feminine strategies rather than masculine & following intuition to do what feels fulfilling •   navigating burnout while learning a new skill •   why she outsourced before she was ready + the results •   how she’s scaled her prices overtime & works less •   Christy’s writing process + flow of creativity •   the struggles of going from storytelling to the point of the copy •   having a launch plan prior to starting a podcast + who should start one •   the benefits of having a podcast - reciprocal promotions •   how learning about something and taking action towards it are two different things Ready to elevate your mindset as a copywriter? Don’t miss this episode with Christy. Click the play button below, or subscribe using your favorite podcast app. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Christy's website Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob:   So many copywriters follow what we've called a winding path from one career or kind of experience to their role as a copywriter. And some even grow beyond that to help with things like branding or voice development and marketing strategy. Our guest for the 226th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Christy Cegelski. Christy started writing as a mommy blogger, but then she got really serious about selling when she and her husband launched a company to sell the margarita mix that they had created. What she learned from running that company came in handy when other business owners started reaching out and asking for help with their copy for their businesses. Kira:   Before we share our interview with Christy, this podcast episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. That's the membership for copywriters who are ready to start investing in their business, improve their sales calls, proposals, and build a network that supports them with ideas, leads, and more. To learn more, visit thecopywriterunderground.com. Rob:   Christy's experience ranges from mommy blogger to food product creator, to copywriter, to digital product maker and podcaster. But we started our interview with a question about how she became a copywriter. Christy Cegelski:   It's funny because listening to so many of your podcasts, I realized that none of us have a typical story where we dreamed one day we were going to become a copywriter, and here we are. I guess I kind of,