The Copywriter Club Podcast

Dayana Mayfield joins The Copywriter Club podcast for the 248th episode. Dayana is a SaaS copywriter who focuses on SEO and conversions. After deciding to pursue writing as a career to inspire her daughter to follow her passions, she found copywriting. If you want to learn how to grow your business through networking and online platforms, this episode is for you. Here’s what we talk about: How copywriting and editing are completely different skill sets. Becoming the sole provider in a foreign country. What it takes to learn SEO copywriting and what the difference is. The pros of Upwork and going from $16 hr to $175 hr in 2 years. What you should do when you don’t have a copywriting portfolio. The better way to cold pitch and land new clients. How Dayana was able to save for 4 months of maternity leave in 1 year. Why you shouldn’t lower your standards when you need money fast. The future of copywriting. Is it still worth it? The benefits of verifying who you could potentially be working with. Misconceptions of the SaaS industry and why it could be the right niche for you. The proper way to vet your prospects. Why SEO is important and could keep your lead list hot and ready. Navigating manic bipolar disorder and having a successful business. How PR and SEO go hand in hand and why you need both in your business. Being multi-passionate and starting a second business. The difference between a vertical and horizontal niche. How you can find leads via podcasts and backlinks. What actually happens when you begin to niche down and position yourself as the expert. Whether you’re reading the transcript or listening in, you won’t want to miss this episode. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Think Tank Tiffany’s website Dayana’s website Full Transcript: Rob: There's more than one approach to choosing a niche, and the most common of course is choosing an industry to specialize in, but there are other approaches too like choosing a particular deliverable or a kind of project that you work on. That's generally called horizontal niching. We've even seen copywriters niche by the customer that they work with. Our guest for this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Dayana Mayfield, and she told us about how she's adding a second horizontal niche to her business. We're going to let her tell you all about it in just a minute, but first I want to introduce my guest host for this episode. That's Tiffany Ingle. Hey, Tiffany. Tiffany: Hi, Rob. Rob: How's it going? Tiffany: It's going pretty well. Thank you for having me here. I'm really happy to sit down and have this conversation with you today. Rob: Yeah, this is awesome. So Tiffany is a conversion copywriter. She's worked in the nonprofit sector I think for like seven years before starting her own business. She writes conversion copy and she has a newsletter called Authenticity is Addictive. If you want to be on that or receive that, go to Tiffany's website and sign up. Before we talk with Dayana, this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Think Tank. That's our mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to do more in their business and their work. Maybe you have dreamed about creating a product or a podcast, or maybe you've thought about maybe starting an agency or a product company. Maybe you want to become the best-known copywriter in your niche, the person that high paying clients are always looking out for. That's the kind of thing that we help copywriters do in the Think Tank. Tiffany is actually a member of the Think Tank, a new member. To learn more, visit copywriterthinktank.com, and maybe you can join this extraordinary group of business owners too. So let's jump into our interview with Dayana and find out more about her b...

Nicole Piper is our guest for the 247th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Nicole is a copywriter and direct response marketer. She started her career as a global brand development strategist working for companies such as Nickelodeon, MTV, and Pokemon. Now she focuses on writing for the health and wellness space. Here’s what we talk about: Going through a divorce and losing your 6-figure job. Falling upon copy courses and becoming energized with everything you’re consuming. When you might be ready to go all in and give it your best shot. How following your gut can open up the doors to 100’s of possibilities. Feeling unsure about your copy and it falling into the hands of Kevin Rogers. Becoming Parris Lampropoulos’ cub and gaining an incredible and surreal experience. Manifesting two clients in one week by getting out of your own way. How to get comfortable with not seeing the entire path ahead of you. The secret to the fastest growth and success. Hint: It’s not by doing it alone. What you can learn from Nickelodeon’s marketing angle. How to find the best humans in the world who are collaborative rather than competitive. When it may be the right time to hire a content strategist. The 4 P’s and how it can bring your message to life. Where most copywriters mess up when making big promises. Why you should have someone read your copy out loud to you. The better way to break into the health and wellness space. The challenge of finding the right people for the job. The truth about being an expert to your client. The difference between prevalence and intensity is the solution to finding your ideal client. Listen to the episode below or read it in the show notes. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Think Tank Piper’s website Piper’s health coaching website Grace’s website Full Transcript: Rob:  There's this idea made popular by the movie, The Secret, that you can manifest things into your life simply by thinking about them. Actually, that's a bit of a simplification of the idea of manifesting, but I think you get the idea. By focusing on things like money or say a nice home or great clients, you actually attract those kinds of things into your life. Now, we're not so sure that it's that simple. In fact, I think I'm on record as saying that it doesn't actually work that way, but we do think that when you work hard and you focus on the right things, good stuff generally happens to you and your business. Our guest for this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is copywriter, Nicole Piper. Nicole is a great example of this manifesting process, attracting opportunity and clients by getting to work and focusing on what she really wanted to happen in a situation where many of us would probably do the opposite. We'll let Nicole share her story in a moment. But first, before we get to that, I want to just introduce the Copywriter Think Tank that's the sponsor for this episode, and that's our mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to do more in their business and their work. Maybe you've dreamed of creating a product or a podcast or building an agency, or a product company, or anything else beyond just simply writing for clients, billing by the penny or by the hour. If you want to become the best known copywriter in your niche, that's the kind of thing that we do in the Copywriter Think Tank. And because Kira is still on maternity leave, my guest host for today is Grace Baldwin. Grace is a member of the Think Tank. Grace, you can share a line or two about your experience, and just tell us what you think about that. Grace:  Sure. Hi everybody. Yeah, my name is Grace Baldwin, I am a B2B SaaS copywriter currently working in-house in the company. But yeah, I'm part of the Think Tank and it's been a pretty pheno...

On the 246th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, we’re joined by one of our newest Think Tank members, Hira Usama. Hira is a social media manager and content strategist. Hira began her freelance journey on Upwork writing e-books and immensely undercharging. She now takes clients’ social media platforms from ghost town to binge-worthy. Here’s what we talk about: Going from a content creator for an agency to freelance work. Writing 4 e-books in one month while being pregnant and finding The Copywriter Club. How she got hired at 17 years old and was published in a magazine. How to effectively use online social platforms to expand your reach. The benefits of outbound engagement and using hashtags to connect with the right people. Social media strategy for the person who just doesn’t have the time or energy for engagement. Starting the process of working with a new client and what it’s like to work with Kira Hug. How to create effective content pillars and even mix in aspects of your life on social media. (Is there a method to the madness?) The beauty and the struggle of the hustle game. The truth about what leads to conversions. Why we need to be social on social media. (Shocking, huh?) How Hira uses Gary Vee in her approach to natural social media strategy. Copywriters who have got a killer approach to socials and what we can learn from observing. Why you absolutely need to be using swipe files. Realizing that no one is going to be as excited about your posts are you. The challenges of working on the other side of the world as your clients. Tips on working with business owners when there may be a language barrier. Creating a community for women who don’t have the means to work a standard 9-5. The struggles of building your own brand when you’re focused on so many others. (the life of a service provider.) If you want to ramp up your social media strategy and build a stronger online presence, listen to the episode or check out the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Think Tank Hira’s website Tamara’s website Full Transcript: Rob:  For most copywriters and content writers, writing comes pretty naturally to us, and that's the one big reason that we all seem to choose this profession in the first place. There are a few exceptions who learn copywriting as a means to do something else, but for most of us, we're pretty good writers and that's why we are writers as a profession. But it takes a lot more than the ability to write to start a successful copywriting business. To do that, you have to hustle and add the skills to help you solve problems for your clients. Today's guests on The Copywriter Club Podcast is Hira Usama. That's exactly what she did from landing her first content gig at age 17, to doing work today as a social media strategist. She's always learning and trying new things, everything from SEO to social media. In this interview, Hira shares exactly what she did to grow a successful business while working from Asia as a new parent. But before we get to that, let me introduce my guest, I guess, kind of host. Since Kira asked some of the questions, she was here when we recorded. But Kira is on maternity leave spending some time with her new baby, and my guests interjector, commenter, whatever we want to call it, is Tamara Glick. Say hi, Tamara. Tamara:  Hello, Rob. How are you? Rob:  It's good. I'm thrilled to have you joining us. Those of you who maybe are longtime listeners to the podcast know that we interviewed Tamara on episode 142. Tamara is a fashion stylist and also a content and brand stylist. She also serves her clients as a fractional CMO, helping them figure out their customer journeys and how they can improve their offers and all kinds of different things.

Eman Ismail is our guest for the 245th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Eman is an email copywriter who has quickly become a go-to expert for all things email copy. Eman made the transition from feast or famine freelancer to CEO by implementing VIP days into her business. If you want to make the switch to VIP days and day rates, don’t miss this episode. Here is what else we cover: Going from charity worker to charity freelancer. The difficulties of being a mom and owning a business. How to let your network know what you do in a way that’s not uncomfortable. Shifting niches and how to attract your ideal customer. The fastest way to level up your freelance business. When being booked out doesn’t mean paying the bills. Hitting the first 5k month and shifting your mindset to get out of feast or famine mode. How niching down can be terrifying but bring in more clients than ever before. When to increase your prices and invest in yourself. The secret to making the most out of your investments. The number one way to maximize all of the coaching and courses you go through. How to shift from a project-based model to a VIP day model. The better way to structure VIP days to allow for maximum results. Why you should hire someone for the service you provide. Perfecting your systems and processes and learning from others. Finding your ideal work schedule and allowing enough time for research. Selecting an online platform where you can find your ideal clients. The importance of a marketing plan. Whether your a new copywriter or you've been in the copywriting space for awhile, you'll get actionable advice on building your business. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Think Tank Eman’s website Copywriting resource guide Full Transcript: Rob:  There's no doubt that you've heard the phrase overnight success, and usually when people talk about this you're saying that there's no such thing. Success takes time, and finding it overnight is incredibly rare, if it happens at all. Today's guest for The Copywriter Club Podcast is Eman Ismail, and Eman recently gave a talk at TCC(N)IRL, that's our event, about how she went from being completely unknown to being the name on everyone's lips in less than a year, and during a year when we had a pandemic. It wasn't overnight, but it happened incredibly fast, and she shared what she did to make that happen, partly in this interview and also in that presentation, available with the IRL recordings. But before we talk to Eman, let's talk to you just a little bit about the Copywriter Think Tank, that's our mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to do more in their business and their work, whether you want to build a more robust copywriting business with better clients and better projects, and of course better way, whether you want to add on something like a podcast, or a course, or something like that, or even if you want to build a mini agency or some other kind of business model that you've been thinking about. Those are the kinds of things that the people in the Copywriter Think Tank are doing all the time. If you're ready to surround yourself with people who are thinking bigger about their business, then you should visit copywriterthinktank.com. Sign up for a quick information session. There's no hard pitch, I promise, and maybe you can join this group of extraordinary business owners too. Now, before we jump into our conversation with Eman, you'll notice that Kira is not here, and that's because Kira is actually having a baby today. So, we unfortunately aren't going to have Kira for the next couple of weeks as we talk about the things on the podcast, but I am going to bring in other people on our team, other copywriters that we know and want to be able to share some of their th...

On the 244th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, Sarah Greesonbach joins the show. After spending years in the classroom, she discovered the world of content marketing and e-commerce. Sarah is a prime example that you can be a highly paid and sought-after content writer when you position yourself as the expert and provide value time and time again. Here’s what we talk about: Writing an ebook all about life after teaching and jumping into the online business realm. Putting your all into your passion without boundaries. Creating an open door after getting laid off. Going from $20-30hr to $800 blog posts. How to make the shift in money and clientele. The reality of setting up your mindset for growth and success. Why you shouldn’t be shopping in your dream client’s wallet. The clear and cut process of writing white papers. What white papers are going for these days and how it can be your in with a potential client. How to showcase your authority right away and take the strategy lead. One simple skill that makes you more money. The shift from “perfect business” to realistic expectations of building a business. How to create buckets, so you can focus on the most important aspects of your business. Using LinkedIn to work with ongoing and steady clients. The difference between writing for B2B and B2C. The truth about being creative and understanding your capacity for scheduling it into your day. Want to create a profitable content writing business? Tune into the episode to learn how to make it happen. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Think Tank Sarah’s website Full Transcript: Rob:  Over the past three years, we've interviewed hundreds of copywriters about their approach to business, their writing processes, their stories, and their tips for writing better copy. The vast majority of them describe themselves as copywriters, but today's guest for the 244th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast Sarah Greesonbach calls herself a content writer. And I'll be honest, I don't see a lot of difference between copy and content. Both are designed to create and support a relationship between a company or brand and its customers. Both are part of the sales process, and both require a smart, strategic approach to make sure that they connect with the right people. We talked a lot about Sarah's approach to content in this episode. And if you write and sell content as part of your business, you're going to learn a lot from this interview. Kira:  Before we hear what Sarah has to say, this podcast episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Think Tank. The Think Tank is our private mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to challenge each other, create multiple new revenue streams in their businesses, receive coaching from the two of us, and ultimately grow to six figures or more. Up until last year, we only opened the Think Tank once a year, but today we invite a few new members each month. If you've been looking for a mastermind to help you grow, visit copywriterthinktank.com to find out more. Rob:  Okay, let's jump into our interview with Sarah and find out more about her path to content writing. Sarah:  Through that is Craigslist, it was pretty amazing. And this was a bit more popular back in the early 2010s when Craigslist was more of a thing. But my story actually starts, I got a master's in arts and teaching, and I taught ninth grade English. And they basically chewed me up and spit me out in about two and a half years. I had reached ultimate burnout as a workaholic because the classroom will take everything you can give it, so I gave it everything. And I had to make my escape. And at that point, I hit that wall a lot of writers hit where it's like, what else could I possibly do? I did the teaching,

On the 243rd episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, Yara Golden (dare we say it) drops gems you need to take note of. Yara Golden fell into the world of copywriting unexpectedly and said goodbye to her relationship coaching days. Now, she runs an agency of copywriters on the basis of storytelling. Here’s what we covered: How our greatest strengths can become our biggest weaknesses. When things seem to be falling apart, how do you pick up the pieces? The art of not being able to screw up being yourself. Transitioning from relationship coach to email copywriting magician. 3 lessons to improve yourself and the relationships you have with others. Going against the grain and breaking the copy “rules.” The #1 thing business owners need. How to strategically take on multiple clients at a time while managing a team. Reaching the epiphany step in the story selling method. The secret to being the character that your ideal client or customer wants to be. The better way to be customer-centric and close sales. The truth about negative inspiration and why it works for entrepreneurs. The fine line of taking in knowledge and closing off what makes us unique. How to revive an inactive email list. - Hint: Don’t say sorry. Are copy blocks the new day rates? Mentorships and helping others sparkle as they grow their businesses. The mindset shift between self-employed and entrepreneur. How to step into the spotlight when you don’t feel you deserve it. Taking the feelings of discomfort and using them to your full advantage. Working through a bad relationship with money and coming up with a strategic plan. The merging of projects and companies: How can this be done? How to write copy without VOC. This episode is a must-listen. If not, a must-read. Check out the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Think Tank Yara’s website Full Transcript: Kira:  Maybe the best thing about having a podcast is the opportunity to talk to so many smart and accomplished copywriters and marketing experts. Even the writers we talked to who are just starting out have unique ideas and perspectives. I think we both can safely say we feel lucky to talk to such talented people and get to learn while we're doing it. And today's guest for the 243rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Yara Golden. And she shared some of her early struggles in her business, the way she packages and sells her services, the lessons she's learned about boundaries and so much more. There are a ton of great takeaways in this episode. Rob:  Before we talk to Yara, let's talk to you, our listeners, about the Copywriter Think Tank. That's our mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to do more in their business in their work. Maybe you've dreamed about creating a product, podcast, and you want to build a mini agency, like the one that Yara built, that she's going to tell us about here in just a minute, or a product company. Maybe you want to become just the best copywriter in your industry or in your niche, or the person that has the high-paying clients and have them know that you're the one that they should be calling. That's the kind of thing that we help copywriters in the Copywriter Think Tank do. To learn more, visit copywriterthinktank.com, and maybe you can join this group of extraordinary business owners too. Kira:  Before we get into the interview, we should note that after a couple of minutes, Rob's internet went down. So, if you're wondering why I hog the mic, and ask all the questions while Rob is quiet, while I didn't kick him off the show, it's just a little bit of trouble. Rob:  Not yet. Kira:  Not yet. So, let's jump into our conversation with Yara and find out about her path into copywriting. Yara:  Oh, my gosh,

Jared Macdonald is our guest for the 242nd episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Jared is a copywriter whose focus is on user experience and customer research. It’s more than just the words we write, it’s about getting inside the heads of our ideal clients, so we can provide a product or service they truly need and want. Jared has proved his expertise in the area of serving his clients because he works with his clients for an average of 2.5 years. Here’s what else we talked about: Combining copy research with user experience and creating magic. Taking a life-threatening situation and turning it into a positive. Being okay with not having everything figured out in your business journey. There is no tiering to struggles and understanding we don’t know what someone is battling. How doing tasks in your business that don’t scale can end up leading to immense growth. Why over-delivering and building lasting client relationships go hand in hand. The steps to create points of excitement through every phase of a funnel. How to lengthen client relationships while respecting your own boundaries. The secret to being seen as the consultant from the beginning. Voice of customer research questions you need to include in your interview process. How to elevate your customer journey and provide the highest of experiences for your clients. Tools that can help you streamline and save you time. Getting to a place where YOU selectively choose your clients and make sure they’re worthy of a sales call. The benefits of working with retainer clients as a new copywriter. Best practices for networking when it can feel awkward and overwhelming. Hit that play button below or read the transcript if you want to improve your client experience. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Think Tank Jared’s website Jared’s workshop  Full Transcript: Rob:  One of the big challenges of running a copywriting business is finding clients. And unless you have retainers, once you find a good client and do the work, you've got to go back out there and find another client and then another. But what if the great clients that you have could stick with you, offering project after project month after month so you don't have to spend your time prospecting and instead you can focus on problem solving. That's what Jared McDonald, our guest for the 242nd episode of the Copywriter Club podcast does. His average client relationship lasts almost two and a half years. And we asked him what he does that makes his clients so happy and he shared a few ideas that any copywriter can implement into their business. Kira:  Before we hear what Jared has to say, this podcast episode is brought to you by the Copywriter Think Tank mastermind, which Jared has participated in. The Think Tank is our private mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to challenge each other, create new revenue streams in their businesses, receive coaching from the two of us and ultimately grow to six figures or more. Up until last year, we only opened the Think Tank once a year, but today we invite a few new members each month. If you've been looking for a mastermind group to help you grow, visit copywriterthinktank.com to find out more. Rob:  Okay. Let's jump into our interview with Jared with this question about how he became a copywriter, a marketing consultant, and a UX strategist. Jared:  Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, from a story perspective, do you want the short version, long version? No. Rob:  I want a medium version. Sort of in the middle. Jared:  Medium, yeah? Medium details. Yeah. I mean, I started out in experiential marketing and doing sales as well. And then it really wasn't until I went to... Wanted to go to school to be a diplomat in foreign languages for some odd reason. And then,

On the 241st episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, Daniel Lamb jumps on the show. Daniel Lamb is a copywriter who helps marketing agencies and B2B brands create conversions within their funnels. Throughout his time as a bartender and agency copywriter, he was able to take essential skills and blend them into his own agency.We also talked about:How to leverage opportunity when it’s sitting right in front of you.Connecting music and copywriting and how they both can evoke a response.The reality of creating your own luck. - Is it possible?What you gain when working with low-paying clients.Skills you gain while working for an agency.How to properly use data to get the best results for clients.Starting an agency “your way” after getting furloughed.The running cycle of looking for clients. - Feast and famine?Turning rubber bands and duck tape into smooth and clear systems.Tips on what to do when you’re fearful of diving into the stats.If you want to run an agency, then you need to be clear on one thing.How investing in relationships will propel you forward.Best practices for working with junior copywriters and the benefits of SOPs.The better way to manage a team and keep everything together.The simple practice that can really turn around procrastination.The secret to hacking your brain and mindset.The shift between taking care of your business and letting your business take care of you.The ins and out of hosting a podcast and surprises along the way.The first thing to consider when deciding on building a partnership.Thinking about starting an agency? Check out this episode or grab the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:Kira’s websiteRob’s websiteThe Copywriter Club Facebook GroupThe Copywriter UndergroundThink TankLinchpin by Seth Godin Who not how by Dan Sullivan Daniel’s website Daniel Lamb podcast - Ritual Linda’s episode Full Transcript:Transcript is underway...

Kira and Rob join each other as guests on the 240th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. After hosting the show and being business partners for almost 5 years, they discuss tips and tools others can use to create more growth and avoid pitfalls along the way. Here’s how it breaks down: The 6 Mistakes Rob and Kira have made during their copywriting careers. Why being part of a community will skyrocket your career and build your skillset. How to be a problem solver for your clients, so they don’t have to guess and search for a solution. What Rob was doing before The Copywriter Club. Why this simple word will give you more power and create higher quality work. The value of testimonials and why they’ll grow your business. Being unaligned and the results it can bring. How to overcome comparisonitis when it keeps knocking at your door. Unveiling your unique mechanism and x-factor, so you can tap into your full-potential. How to successfully pull off a virtual event and create real community online. Building a team and focusing on the buckets that propel the business forward. Motivation and getting things done with a positive attitude. Why it’s vital to make time for things you love outside of your business. A better way to look at your business that will make all the difference in your sustainability and impact. Trends and patterns in the copywriting space that you should avoid. Books and podcasts Listen in on the podcast below or check out the transcript and give it a read. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Books and things we're into right now: 21 Lessons for the 21st Century by Yuval Noah Harari   The Highly Sensitive Person by Elaine N. Aron Run to Win by Stephanie Schriock The Vanishing Half by Brit Bennett You Get What You Pitch For by Anthony Sullivan The Catalyst by Jonah Berger A History of the World in 10 and a Half Chapters by Julian Barnes The Road Less Stupid by Keith J. Cunningham Frank Morgan Radio The Smartless podcast The Tim Ferriss Show Full Transcript: Kira:  Hi, Rob. Rob:  Hey, Kira. We were just saying that we should have written an intro for this episode, since we write those after we record. Now, our process is all changed and we're just recording now this interview to go live next week actually. So I don't know if we're going to have time to do an intro or not. Kira:  We don't. Yeah. We're anti shoulds, right? All the things you should do, let's just not do it. We don't... No more shoulds for us. So there is no intro. It's just us, the two of us today. This is episode 240, right? Rob:  Yeah. Episode 240 and every 10th episode or so we like to just jump on and just chat about different stuff, go guest free and this is all our stuff. If you don't like that, you can skip to the next episode or listen to last week's episode or stay tuned and you get a full dose of Kira and Rob. Kira:  Yes. This is just us wild and free. So we are going to ask each other questions and just kind of interview each other because even though we talk frequently, we don't always ask each other questions about business ideas, what else we're doing so I think Rob and I just need more quality time together. We have a lot of time together, maybe we need more quality time together. Rob:  There you go. Yeah. Finding out more. I mean, we've only been doing this for four years, right? So trying to understand who the other person is with I think- Kira:  Who are you? Who is this person? So let's kick it off with the first question. Rob, what are some mistakes that you've made in your copywriting business? I guess this could really be any mistake. It's all fair game. But I was just thinking, I think frequently about mistakes I've made with projects with clients previously. I don't know why they just kind of pop in to my mind at d...

Full Transcript: Kira:  Being a launch copywriter is not the easiest thing in the world. You've got to understand launch strategy, be able to write sales pages and emails, maybe even write webinar scripts, Facebook and Google or YouTube ads, and more, and often even just support your client through the launch experience, which can be a rollercoaster at times. It's the kind of work that can easily lead to burnout if you're not careful. Our guest for the 239th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is former Think Tank member, Kristina Shands. She joined us to talk all about the work involved with writing and strategizing for launches, and she talked about ways to make launches more enjoyable too. Rob:  So, before we get to our interview with Kristina, we want to tell you that this podcast is brought to you by The Copywriter Think Tank. This is something we've been talking about quite a bit recently, and if you're tired of hearing us promote the Think Tank, maybe just visit the copywriterthinktank.com and find out what it's all about. It is our private mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to challenge each other, create new streams of revenue in their business, to receive coaching from the two of us, and ultimately grow your business to six figures or find more time for the things that you value, whatever your goals are, it's designed to help you reach them. If you've been looking for a mastermind to help you grow as a copywriter or as a business owner, again, visit copywriterthinktank.com to find out more. Kira:  Yeah, and we're not going to stop talking about it anytime soon. So, sorry. Okay, let's jump into our conversation with Kristina, as we usually do, with her story. Kristina:  The roundabout way is how I got here. I spent a lot of time in college just doing random stuff, and then I discovered this thing called public relations, and I figured out I could write pretty well. So, I got a degree in public relations and worked for nonprofits, and then one day, I came in, and my boss said, "Our grant isn't approved for next year, you're the only person that I can let go, and sorry." And so, I was like, "Oh, okay." So, I spent a year working with other fundraising coaches, worked as a grant writer. I've taught fundraising to local nonprofits, and then I worked with graphic designers. And I had some friends that owned a web company, and I had no idea what I was doing, but I knew I could write. I'd still at this point didn't know what copywriting was, I just knew I could write scripts and I could write stuff. Had no direction whatsoever. And then ended up finding out what internet marketing was, and got into that world, studied with some of the first, Frank Kern, sort of those types of copier, those types of internet marketers. And then became a VA, discovered launching from a client, came into her company as a junior copywriter, and that was when I was like, "Oh, wait, there's a science behind copywriting. It's not just writing words randomly and asking someone to do something, there's actually a formula and science and metrics and things that I can actually study." And then from there, it became a really dive into what it takes to be a real copywriter, how to become a better copywriter, about storytelling. And because my client was doing a lots of launches, I just got to study with her and watch her team do launches. From there, I just went on and started working with other friends and coaches and found my way through the maze. I've just been really lucky to get really great referrals and learning as I go and studying, and then found my way here. Long story short, I happened into it, and I'm really glad I did. Rob:  So, Kristina, I'm curious, going back to PR days, fundraising days, when you started mentioning that, I'm like, "Okay, how do you fundraise? What are the secrets to fundraising?" Because when you're offering somebody a product to sell or to buy, obviously,