The Copywriter Club Podcast

Liz Wilcox will blow your email marketing mind on the 258th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Liz is a blogger turned email marketing expert who helps other bloggers become business owners. If you’ve been letting your list sit in the dust or you haven’t taken the plunge in creating an email list, this might be the episode to give you the push. Here’s how it all breaks down: Have you ever googled: How to make money from home? The overwhelm that comes with all the ways you could start a business and make money online. Why it’s a good idea to start your email list. (even with no audience) What you should do when you begin to grow your email list. Writing a book about poop? How it became the beginning of everything for Liz. The secrets behind a 100% conversion rate. Do you really need to go to the experts? Van life. Is it for you and can you start a business while living in the woods? How to think outside the box of what you see online. Going from idea to done and executed in one hour. How to get to a 47% email open rate. Steps to take to become a digital course creator. (do you need to give up client work?) When is it a good time to start pitching to podcasts? Creating an inclusive digital product based model and following through. How long email newsletters should really be taking you. Is storytelling a thing of the past? The difference between stories and updates on your life. Is Liz going to take over our newsletter? How to keep it fresh and exciting when writing to your list. Everything you don’t want to do when it comes to email marketing. Making your business your number 1 client and not apologizing for it. What every copywriter and business owner needs to be for themselves. How Will Smith will help you build your business. Need Will to help you build your business? Check out the episode below or read the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Liz’s website    Full Transcript: Rob:  You know how when you meet some people, they just seem to be stuck. They're not able to move forward, they're just not able to do anything. If they're in business, maybe they're stuck following everybody else's formulas, doing the same thing that everybody else is doing. And then there's some people that you meet who seem full of energy. They're free. They're definitely not stuck. It's almost like anything is possible for them in business, in life. Well, today's guest for the Copywriter Club podcast, is the type of copywriter and entrepreneur who broke out of that box a long time ago. She's the type of creative who sees the worldwide web as the Wild Wild West, and as an opportunity to build and connect with companies, ideas and people. That's copywriter Liz Wilcox. Kira:  Before we jump into Liz's interview, this podcast is sponsored by the Copywriter Think Tank. That's our mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to think outside the box and build new offers and revenue streams in their businesses. Rob, I'm going to interview you. Why do you think the think tank helps copywriters and marketers experience real results? Why does it work? Rob:  I've thought about this a lot recently, and I think one of the things that's really different about the think tank is that we don't have a single formula that we're trying to get everybody to buy into or to follow. Some courses, some masterminds you're working with, an expert who's done it their way. And so they teach their way and they expect you to do everything the way that they did it. That's not our approach. We start out by asking each member about their goals, about what they want to achieve, about the challenges that they're facing, about the impact they want to have in the world, the authority they want to build. And based on those goals, we tailor the experience for each individual in the think tank. Everybody else in the think tank is doing something similar. They're working on their goals, but when you have everybody working together to achieve their goals in their business, you start to see what other people are doing. There's an effect that just happens where everybody grows together. And so it's different from a lot of other programs that are a little bit more rigid. I think that's one of the reasons why the think tank works. Kira:  Wow. That's a good answer. I feel like you practiced that. It was very smooth. Rob:  Not practiced at all. I'm the most unpracticed person ever on the podcast. Kira:  So smooth. If the Copywriter Think Tank sounds something that could help you in your business, you can visit copywriterthinktank.com to learn more. Rob:  Okay. Let's go to our interview with Liz and find out how she got her start as a copywriter. How did you become this expert in email, email strategist, copywriter, all of these things? Liz:  This is a really fun story. I think it's a lot different than what you typically hear on the show. Number one, I feel a lot of especially email copywriters, they start off as copywriters for other people who are selling products. I actually started off as a blogger. I was an RV travel blogger. I didn't even start off traditionally where it was, this is my passion. I just want to share the word, RVing is so awesome. No, I started off as a business. I knew I wanted to travel and I had no means of making money from the road. Of course, I Googled how to make money from home, saw all these people, make a million dollars in six months, just watch my webinar, that type of style. I realized that there were all these people making money from blogs. I saw, especially in the RV space, I saw a lot of bloggers and I said, well, if they can do it, I can do it too. I signed up for WordPress. I said, okay, here I'm going to go. From the get-go every, every online guru, so to speak was saying, my biggest regret was not taking my email list seriously. Before I had even hit publish on my blog, I made sure I had an email service provider set up. I didn't even have Facebook at the time, but I got back on Facebook, added all my old friends and I hit publish on my blog and I said, hey, actually now I live in this RV. I want to get it going. I heard you can make money on a blog, please join my email list and I'll figure it out as I go. I got 100 people on my email list in the first, I don't know, it was 30, maybe 60 days. I can be persuasive, hence why I'm a copywriter. Right? From there I just started, asking them, why do you follow me? Why do you follow me? People said, well, you're really funny and you can tell a good story. So about six months later, I wrote my first book. I published it. It was a book about poop. Rob:  Nice. Liz:  It made over $7,000 in the first 90 days, it got picked up by an international sponsor that gives me $7 for every new lead it generated for them. I realized wow, the money really is in the list, because I only had about 300 people on my email list from them. I just kept creating digital products, creating digital products. I ended up launching my very first online course. About three years into business, I had 141 people on the wait list. By the cart close day, I had made 141 sales. Flash forward a couple of months later, I actually went to Tarzan Kay and Sage Polaris, they had some, what was it called? Legendary or something. I started meeting all these copywriters. I had no idea what really a copywriter did. I'd been following some online, but I wasn't sure what they did or how they made money. And so, I'm meeting all these copywriters and I'm like, but what do you actually do? They say, sales emails, pages, et cetera, et cetera. I said, well I do all that for myself and here are the results I've had. And they were like, whoa, you should do that for a living. And so I knew, number one, I was apparently very good at writing and I was really good at writing emails, because I didn't run Facebook ads. I didn't do social media campaigns. All my success just came from email marketing. And so I actually left that conference. I put my RV blog up for sale and I went right into the copywriting business. Rob:  Nice. Okay. There's definitely a lot of questions that come out of this. First of all, RVing, tell us a little bit about, what were you driving? Where did you go? How did you make that work? This is a dream of mine. I would love to have the skoolie, the refurb skoolie, maybe a trailer and live the van life. Unfortunately my wife has zero interest in that. So I have to do this all vicariously by asking people about their experience. Tell us a little bit about that before we come back to email and copywriting. Liz:  Yeah, sure. I was married at the time, and number one, I hate to clean, and number two, I hate to spend money. We were moving, he was in the military at the time. The deal on our house fell through and he made a joke. We were moving to Alabama and he made a joke about, well, everybody in Alabama lives in a trailer, Liz, why don't we just buy an RV? We'd only been married a year and a half. He didn't really know me that well. And I said, okay, why not. And so six days later we bought an RV and we were living in it. That's when I thought, hey, this thing has wheels, kind of like Rob just said, why don't we move this thing? That sounds really fun. And so that's when I started my blog. But about a year later into the blog, I actually started traveling. We traveled full-time for about three years. First, we had a big giant fifth wheel was about 400 square feet. And then when we started traveling, we realized that was way too big. We downsized into a 32 foot Jayco Greyhawk. You can Google it. It's the picturesque RV. It's got the cab over it. We have a daughter, she slept up over the cab and she called it her little princess castle. It was really fun.

On the 257th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, Kim Krause Schwalm is back on the show. Kim is an A-list copywriter and copy mentor who got her start in the marketing world. Since her first episode, she’s narrowed her focus on mentoring other copywriters on how to write better copy and attract high-level clients. If you’re looking for advice on becoming an A-list copywriter, this is for you. Here’s what we talk about: Going from time for money to value for money. What it looks like to begin mentoring by creating courses. The 5 key steps to writing good copy. Is there a set timeline for completing copy? Fact or myth: Can anyone be a copywriter? Why people devalue copy and how we can position ourselves for highest value. How grammar can make or break the sale of your product or service. The benefits of hiring a copywriter for your business. Why you need to stop working IN your business. Are the classic copywriting books still worth the read? (Kim needs a word with you.) Black and white thinking and how to overcome it. The importance of learning and relearning and how it will make you an A-list copywriter. Unlearning what you think you know about being a good writer. How to use your background to become a better copywriter. Do you have to do all the things to be well known in your industry? Podcasts, coaching, Youtube? The most common mistakes new and established copywriters keep on making. How to create stronger boundaries in order to create a sustainable business. Kim’s advice on how to work with head-honcho companies. What you need to do to increase the respect your clients give you. Getting paid for royalties: where do you begin? Outlining your agreements and contracts for greatest success. How to build your authority and accelerate your business. How does it actually start? Why watching reality TV and reading People magazine can be a good thing. Listen to one of the best in the business by hitting the button below or by checking out the transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Kim’s website Kim’s first episode Matt’s website Scientific Advertising Full Transcript: Kira:  Just about everyone you meet on the street, thinks they're a writer. You sit across from your cousin at the table and he talks about the novel he's working on. Maybe you bump into an old classmate and they tell you they're working on their body of work. Sure, anyone can publish their writing today. We should actually celebrate that, but not just anyone can write copy. If you want to be an A-lister and build a career as a copywriter, it takes more than just a pulse and a pencil to do this thing so many of us do daily. Today's guests for The Copywriter Club Podcast has built her reputation around her impressive resume of copywriting accomplishments. That's why she's an A-lister we can all agree is actually on this phantom A-list. We're talking about Kim Krause Schwalm. You can catch our first podcast interview with Kim back in the day in episode 40, where we talk about how she went from successful marketing director to control beating copywriter in less than two years. But today, Kim's here to bust three copywriting myths. And before we jump into all of that, I want to introduce my co-host for this episode, Matt Hall. Matt Hall is a renaissance man. That's the best title for him because he can do all the things in the marketing space. Any time anyone has any type of problem, I send them to Matt Hall. But Matt, that is the worst possible title for you. What do you actually do? What do you call yourself? Matt:  What I really do is I solve problems. People come to me and they don't say, "Matt, I've got money for you. Just take it, do with it what you will." They come to me because there's something they want me to do and something they want me to make better. So I do that with websites, I do that with copy, I do that with strategic planning. A lot of what I learned has come from being able to interact with people just like Kim. Actually, this is a cool episode to be on because I accidentally sat next to Kim. And I didn't realize I was sitting next to this copy A-lister. So I'm talking to her, and what I've been talking to her about, Montessori for my kid. She was just the nicest, most generous person I could possibly be talking to at that lunch table in Brooklyn. It was just such a cool experience. And then later you realize, oh wow, this is Kim Krause Schwalm, she's the real deal. Kira:  A big deal, yeah. Matt:  She's such a huge deal in this space. So this is such a cool episode. There's so many things in it that I really resonate with. I think the simplicity and clarity, what she says is also going to really resonate with a lot of the people listening today. Kira:  All right. Yeah. Kim is a wonderful, she's become a friend. We both live in the D.C. area. So we hang out frequently pre-baby, now I'm not hanging out with anybody. Also, yeah, Kim and I have chatted about Montessori as well. So we know she's very passionate about Montessori. Matt:  Kim Krause Schwalm, known for two things, Montessori schools and A-list copywriting. Yep? Kira:  That's yep. There you go. So before, Matt, we jump in and get more official with this commentary that we're about to share, you solve problems, like what kind of problems and, what problems and how can people pay you for those problems to solve? Do you have a package or something you can plug? Matt:  I do. Right now I'm helping copywriters, coaches and consultants break through the walls, keeping them where they are, and implement the systems, strategies and scaling they need to finally hit the income targets that they've been aiming at for a while, but haven't been able to hit. So if you feel like you've been stuck, you feel like you know what to do, you know the things that you should be doing every day, but you also really struggle to figure out how to get out there and promote yourself effectively, how to balance your time, how to find the right help for your team, how to overcome your tech blockers, let's chat because I might be able to help you out. And if I can't, that's okay too, because we can get you connected with the right person. Kira:  This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Think Tank. That's our mastermind. If you listen to the show, you probably have heard us talk about it on just about every show. But today is cool because we have, again, Matt Hall is a past Think Tank member. So I'm going to take this opportunity, Matt, to just ask you, well, what was your favorite part about the Think Tank Mastermind? Matt:  There's that moment when you first get paid to write copy, and it just feels like magic. You do more copy jobs, you try to find more clients and it goes well, but then you hit a point where you get stuck and you're like, I don't know what to do. The cool thing about being in the Think Tank was that you're suddenly around a group of people who are all facing the same challenges together. And you're all experimenting in slightly different ways that feel authentic to your business, authentic to your personality. So you get to see, Hey, here's what works for a lot of different people. You get to pick and choose for what's working with your community that you're creating, how you can grow your own business. So it was just wild to see people who were just really down to earth, really cool and chill, people who've been on this podcast figure out what to do to break through that to that next step. And being able to learn from them gave me so much hope and a completely new level of freedom. Kira:  All right. Well, thanks for sharing that, Matt. If you're listening and you want to learn more, you can visit copywriterthinktank.com. All right. Let's kick off this episode and find out what Kim's been up to since we last chatted with her on the podcast. Rob:  Let's get caught up. So you were on the podcast episode 40, that was three years ago. Kim:  So long ago. Rob:  Yeah. We have like, what, 200 episodes since then. We're coming up on almost 270-ish, close to that. So what's been going on with you the last three years or so. Kim:  Yeah. Well, I've been gradually doing less and less client work, and that's in part just because I've expanded to having people that I'm doing mentoring with. I have some of my own courses that I've created that have actually been off shoots of events that I've held. So I've been gradually doing a bit more with my own business and with my own email list, and I've just found it really satisfying on many levels. I was always a marketer that could write copy. I fell into copywriting after a 13 year marketing career. So I've missed using those different parts of my brain. It's also been just really gratifying to be at a point where I can just openly share everything I've learned with people. I'm not worried about they're going to take work away from me because I'm basically semi-retired from copywriting. That's what I've been up to really the last three years. Rob:  If I remember right, I could be getting the timing not quite right, but when we talked to you the last time you were about to have your LA bootcamp- Kim:  Yeah, that was a while ago. Rob:  ... with Jay, and that's become one of your products. Kim:  It is, but I'm actually semi-retired that. I'm having been really promoting that because I do have another copywriting course called Copywriting Velocity, which was part of basically an offshoot of an event I had in March 2019. Then I'm actually about to refocus on that and do some more tinkering and expanding on that program. And then right now I'm actually working on a new course on research, which a lot of people have been very interested in learning more about.

John Mulry (yes, you saw that right) joins us for the 256th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. John is a direct marketing expert who was trained by Dan Kennedy. He’s the creator of Email Academy Pro and Expert Authority Formula. Currently, John’s the Director of Marketing for Todd Brown Marketing*. If you want to be seen as an expert in your field, this is the episode for you. Here’s how it goes down: The process of writing a book at supersonic speed. Bringing direct response marketing to different countries. Going from fitness expert to marketing master. How helping people can look different for everyone. Bridging the gap to help business owners connect on a deeper level with their audience. The key to being seen as the expert. How unplanned events and experiences can change your life immensely. Should every copywriter write a book? Finding joy in finding your first clients. The acquisition of new skills and how to accelerate your business. Do you need to be great at sales to be great at marketing? What it’s like being the Director of Marketing for Todd Brown. How to acquire new customers in a crowded market. Best practices for building a 3 part acquisition funnel. How to engineer your offer to get repeated stripe notifications. What is AOV and why it’s important for your funnel. The real job of copywriters. (Hint: it isn’t to write words.) Want to uplevel your marketing skills? Listen to the episode or read the transcript below. *Since recording John has transitioned into taking over as COO of Todd Browns Sister Company E5 Agency The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground E5 Nation Facebook Group  Full Transcript: Rob:  One of the things we love about being copywriters is that we're not just hired to make our client's words sound good, we're hired to solve problems. But here's the thing, clients don't always understand that that's what they're asking us to do. They come to us with projects and ask things like, "Can you write my website or can you help with a case study or a sales page?" What they're really asking for is help solving a bigger problem, help me sound professional or help me prove that I can do what I say I can do, or help me sell more products and make more money. The more we sell ourselves as experts in solving complex marketing problems, the more we're able to work with great clients and earn more money. Today's guest for The Copywriter Club Podcast is John Mulry. John is the Director of Marketing for MFA, that's Todd Brown's company, and he is focused on solving very complex marketing problems for Todd and for Todd's clients. And what he's shared in this interview may give you some ideas on how to do that for your own clients and in your own business. But before we get to our interview with John, good news, Kira is back. Hey, Kira. Kira:  Hi. Hey, Rob. Good to be back. Rob:  Yes. How have you been? It's been a while. Kira:  I've enjoyed the podcast interviews while I was away where every intro, I feel like you were like, "And Kira's still on maternity leave." I feel like towards the end it sounded like maybe there was a little bit more frustration in that over the last few episodes, but I'm back. Rob:  I don't think I was frustrated. If it sounded that way, I'm sorry then. Kira:  Maybe it was just to me. But yeah, I'm happy to be back on the podcast. I've had a fun time listening to other copywriters speak on the podcast and add their commentary and their thoughts. I think it's strengthened the podcast. So I feel like you don't really need me here. I'm just going to leave right now. I don't think you need me here at all. Rob:  We definitely had more than one person offer to take your place in the future should you decide to make maternity leave permanent? So who knows? Kira:  Tell me who they are, I will fight them. Rob:  Well, we'll see that for- Kira:  They'll hunt me down. Rob:  Yeah, exactly. Kira:  Rob, how do you feel like running the show over the last few months, I guess, what is your biggest takeaway from running the show, Sans, Kira and building the show in any way? Rob:  It's been fun. Obviously, I missed your insightful question asking when I'm doing interviews on my own, like the one that we're going to be doing here in just a second, it's just me and John talking. But it's also fun to get insights from other people beyond you and me. I think that you and I have said a lot of things, we kind of repeat ourselves sometimes. There's only so many ways that we think about niching or experiences that we have. And so it's been fun adding some additional voices and I think moving forward, that's something that we're going to continue to do. So it won't always be you and me jumping in here and making comments, but it might be you and someone else or me and someone else and sometimes it'll be you and me and we'll just see how it all kind of moves forward. So it'll be a lot of fun. Kira:  Okay. Sounds good. So let's jump in to all the serious stuff like this podcast is sponsored by the Copywriter Think Tank. That's our mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to do more in their businesses, maybe like creating a new revenue stream or stepping on stage or creating a new product, podcast, a video channel, maybe you want to build an agency or a product company, maybe you want to become the best known copywriter in your niche. High paying clients call because you're the name everyone in your industry knows. That's the kind of thing we help copywriters do in the Think Tank. To learn more, visit copywriterthinktank.com. Rob:  Okay. So as we usually do, let's take this episode off with John's story. It gets a little crazy at times. So I think you guys are going to like listening to what John has to share about becoming a marketing strategist. John:  It's a funny story as it all kind of stems from me being in a similar position that people be in when they start their own business, they start their own venture, side hustle or whatever it may be. So I had come back from a year in South America. So originally I was in the corporate finance world and maybe we can dive into South America in a bit, but I was originally in corporate finance and I completely hated it. And I was working the typical 9:00 to 5:00 for somebody else and it was just, I was miserable. I was depressed. I was miserable. I was drinking more often than not, and it was just that something had to happen. So I decided to head off to South America with my friend at the time who was in London. And the two of us went to South America and volunteered for the year and traveled around for a year. And while I was away over there, I changed an awful lot specifically from a health and fitness point of view. And I kind of made the decision that when I would eventually come back to Ireland that I was going to grow up my own in some way, shape or form. So when I got back to Ireland, I started putting plans into place to start my own fitness business and personal training business because I changed so much from a fitness point of view and a health point of view. And I had a big shift from unhealthy drinking the whole time to actually looking after myself and seeing the results from that. So I got qualified and everything else and did the courses in self-fund, then started my own business and quickly realized that it wasn't just a case of opening up the doors and people would flood in the door, you actually had to do stuff to get people in the door. And this was just completely new to me. I was sure because I was good at what I did and I got results and that's enough, but obviously we know that it's not. We have to do a lot more to get our names out there, to get people in the door and so on and so forth. So I started studying and looking into... Well, first of all, before I started studying, I started looking into different ways to market myself. And what I initially started doing was blogging. So it's just basically telling my story online. I started a really simple and ugly WordPress blog, just kind of blogging articles and stuff that was interesting to me and stuff like that. And while I was doing that, I started to kind of trying to find out how can I get more blog visitors, what can I do to get more people to the website and so on and so forth. I started kind of falling into this world of marketing. And from there, it kind of snowballed and got sucked into a lot of different areas. But specifically the idea of direct response marketing really hit home with me because if I do X, I will get Y. And Y may be a good result or a bad result, but at least I know what that result is. So then from there I came across a guy called Dan Kennedy, which I'm sure everybody is familiar with. And I just had enough of his very direct approach, no nonsense approach, no BS approach. And I started to listen to a lot what he was saying, but also started to do what he was saying to do as well, which I feel, and I'm sure you'll agree that so many people that they do listen to a lot of things and they do follow a lot of things, but the implementation side of things could sometimes let them down. One of the things that I learned from Dan initially was if you want to get results in your market, whether it's a local market or not, you need to stand out. And he himself, he used his books to stand out. So I was like, well, if it works for Dan, I'm going to create... Nobody in my market at the time locally had their own book or a tool that I could use to get clients for themselves. So I said, right, I'm going to start working on my own book. And I remember I arrived home one day from the office to Jess and Jess is a journalist, Jess is an amazing editor, amazing writer, and I said, "I'm going to write a book.

Jennifer Duann Fultz disrupts the status quo on the 255th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Jennifer is the founder and CEO of Chief Executive Auntie, a business aimed to teach WOC business owners how to make more money online through course creation. Interested in creating a better course experience for your students? Tune into the episode to find out how. It breaks down like this: The importance of promoting alternative and diverse voices. Money mindset and how it can affect your life (and business). The stories that are deeply rooted in us from the way we grow up. Why you don’t need to attract every single person into your course. (It’s okay to repel people.) How using your background can propel your business forward. The better way to create a course and guide students to an outcome. How to be the guide your students need and understand where they are coming from. Why you need to prime your students before they reach the next level. Customer research and the effect it has on your course creation. Increasing course completion rates and being selective on who joins your program. Building a lead magnet that will actually help your ideal prospects. Figuring out your strengths and not being tempted to try and do everything. The reality of passive income. (Is it even a thing?) Shifting from employee mindset to CEO mindset and knowing when it’s okay to step away. Being multi-passionate and creating structure to get things done. When it’s time to hire help in your business in order to avoid burnout. Become a better course creator by listening to the episode or checking out the transcript below.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Christy’s website Jennifer’s website   Full Transcript: Rob:  A lot of copywriters buy courses, or write for course creators, or have created their own courses as part of their work. And lately, there seems to be a sense that courses may not be as easy to create and sell as they once were. Some course creators have been criticized for low completion rates. We've heard numbers as low as 4% of people buying courses that actually finish the course. Or they're criticized for signing up students who shouldn't be in a course in the first place. Our guest for the 255th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Jennifer Duann Fultz. And she knows a thing or two about creating and selling courses because that's what she does in her business. So I asked her about these challenges and a lot more. But first, let me introduce my co-host for today, Christy Cegelski. Christy is a copywriter who specializes in copy that connects, captivates, and converts. She is a Think Tank member and host of her own podcast, The Captivate and Convert Podcast. I was lucky enough to be featured with Kira as a guest on that podcast. I think if I'm remembering right, it was Episode 29 right in there somewhere. Christy:  Somewhere around there, yeah. Rob:  Yeah, I think I'm like, one of two male guests that you've had in the runs of our site. I feel kind of lucky to be included amongst so many brilliant women. Christy:  Yeah. Rob:  But, yeah. Welcome, Christy. Thanks for joining. Christy:  Well, thanks for having me. This is exciting. I've never been a co-host. Rob:  Well, and now you are. So yeah, I mean, we can maybe make this permanent if it turns out well. Christy:  Check. Rob:  This is your audition. Christy:  Check. Rob:  I like it. If you want to know more about Christy, you can see her at christycegelski.com. Of course, subscribe to her podcast, The Captivate and Convert Podcast. She was actually a guest on our own podcast, Episode number 226. About what? That was probably five, six months ago now. Christy:  Yeah. Rob:  A really good interview about what you've done in your business and how your businesses has grown and developed from product marketing to what you do today, helping people actually connect with their clients. It's a great interview. Christy:  Thank you. I got a lot of messages about it. It's funny because I totally felt like I bombed it, but hey, if somebody got something out of it, it's all good. Rob:  It definitely did not bomb. I'm excited to talk about Jennifer's interview here in just a second. But before we get to that, let's mention that this podcast is sponsored by the Copywriter Think Tank. That's our mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to do more in their business. Maybe you've dreamed of stepping on stage or creating a new product or a podcast or a video channel or maybe you want to build an agency or a product company, or maybe you just want to become the best known copywriter in your niche, the person that high paying clients call because your name is the one that everyone in your industry knows. That's the kind of thing that we focus on in the Think Tank. If you'd like to learn more, visit copywriterthinktank.com. Okay. Now that we've got all of that out of the way, let's start our interview with Jennifer's story and how she became an online course creator and Chief Executive Auntie. Jennifer:  I taught high school science for a total of three years. During those years, and in between those years, I sort of dabbled in freelance digital marketing and photography. But after I became a parent, I started my current business, largely because I didn't think I could be both the type of parent and the type of teacher I wanted to be at the same time. And now that my child is in kindergarten and I have met their teacher, I was like, "I was right. I don't think I could do this". And so, I started my business and I originally tried to be a chirpy white mommy blogger, which didn't work for a lot of reasons, and about to the end. I did a lot of freelance; web design, content writing, dabbled in some other document design type of things, and didn't really have a clear vision of what I wanted to do besides make a bit of money in a small amount of time. But in 2019, I did something called the Year of Asian Reading Challenge, which is hosted on a couple of book blogs. It was a really good experience for me just as a person because I thought it would be really hard to find books by Asian and Asian American writers, and it wasn't. The only time I had to sort of break that streak of reading only books by Asian and Asian-American writers was when I wanted to read about business. After looking and looking and looking, and I did start to find more Asian American business owners, but there still weren't a lot of resources out there so I do what I typically do, which is decided to make my own resources about business from one Asian American perspective. And I say from one Asian American perspective because there's very many different Asian American experiences, and mine is just one of them. That's how the Chief Executive Auntie persona was kind of born. I took the... And I feel like it's not limited to just Asians. I feel like every person on earth understands what the well-meaning kind of nosy, kind of loud truth-telling telling auntie in their life is like. And so, that's kind of where she came from. Rob:  Nice. Jennifer:  It was from that experience. Rob:  Okay, cool. I want to ask more about that. But first, tell us a little bit more about the Asian reading experience, like some of your favorite books that came out of that in case some of our listeners would like to be pointed in that direction. Because you're right, and we've actually talked about this before in the podcast especially when it comes to marketing. It's overwhelmingly male, it's overwhelmingly white. There's not a lot we can necessarily do about the history, but there's definitely a lot of things we can do moving forward doing the right voices. So for those who might be saying, "Yeah, I actually haven't read a lot of Asian writers," give us a couple of your favorites just so we have a place to start. Jennifer:  Yeah. I think I probably have a list on my personal blog somewhere. If I find it, I'll send it to you. Rob:  Okay. Jennifer:  But some of my favorite authors that I found in that time, Ken Liu. If you like science fiction fantasy, he writes both. In 2019, I think I read one of his fantasy books, but then I later got a book of science fiction short stories that I really liked called The Paper Menagerie. Rebecca Kuang; she writes fantasy that is based on and informed by the history of 20th century China. And kind of a side note. I didn't learn Asian history, any of it really in school. If anything, it was just... Even World War II, where Asia's kind of a big deal, you know? Just minor detail. There wasn't a lot discussed about the Pacific front besides really the atomic bomb at least in my schooling experience. And so, I learned a lot... What history and culture that I did learn about China and Taiwan has come a lot of times from fiction and from memoir because it's not covered in the textbook. So just kind of a side note there. Speaking of memoir, Two Trees Make a Forest, which is an eco memoir, kind of about the nature and heritage of Taiwan, which is where my parents are from. I'm kind of blanking a little bit. I'll see if I can find that list to share with you. Rob:  Okay. If you share that, we can link to that so that people can clue in there, but I appreciate that. As somebody, I mean, similar school experience, a little bit of discussion in World War II. I did take an Asian History class in college, but that's not taught to everybody, right? So I appreciate you sharing that. Okay. Let's go back to then starting Chief Executive Auntie. How did you get started? What services did you start offering? How'd you find your first clients? Let's talk about that. Jennifer:  Yeah. Auntie doesn't have a...

For the 254th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, Amisha Shrimanker hops on to talk all about her journey from order taker to CEO. Amisha is the founder of The Copy Crew and their focus is copy for online business coaches. As business owners, we don’t always give ourselves the permission to get things wrong, but Amisha looks at this from a different perspective. Here’s what we talk about: Writing copy without knowing you’re writing copy. Finding the right community to propel your business and skillset forward. How to write pitches that land you the job. The reality of beginner pricing. Do you need to settle? Going from order taker to 20k months in 18 months. Sending people to junior copywriters when they want to haggle. The pros and cons of being the order taker. Note: Learn all you can. The better way to land big clients. Why you need to document your copywriting process. How to get extra validation from your clients. (even if it doesn’t pay.) The reality of hustle and the benefits it can bring you in the long run. Getting the best case studies to showcase your work and results. Hiring someone to ask your client questions about you. Win-Win? Being on the other side of the interview. The interviewer becomes the interviewee. Getting the most out of job boards and paying for connections. How to do more than just “done for you” work. Why you shouldn’t let inexperience hold you back. Shifting your mindset from scarcity to abundance. How surrounding yourself with high-achieving people will propel you 10 steps forward. Building trust with your clients and demonstrating your expertise. When is enough learning, enough? Is it time to say no to more courses? Leveling up from skillbuilding to strategy-building. Can audits be profitable in your business? Hit the play button to listen to Amisha’s genius or read the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Amisha’s website Nicole’s website   Full Transcript: Rob:  If you're a longtime listener to The Copywriter Club podcast, you've heard hundreds of copywriters share their stories over the last four years. And while we talk about the struggles that copywriters have from time to time, the big focus of our interviews is the success that so many copywriters are having in their businesses. Our guest today is Amisha Shrimanker. Amisha has a counter intuitive process for finding success. It's all about choosing lots of ways to fail each week or each month, and then going after those failures with serious intensity. But the result isn't failure, it's actually success. And we can't wait to share this interview with you in just a minute. But first, you're still on maternity leave, and I want to introduce my co host for today, Nicole Morton. Nicole, how are you? Nicole:  Good. Thank you so much for having me. This is such a treat. Rob:  Yeah, this is going to be fun. So Nicole, for those of you who don't know her, she's a copywriter, brand strategist, really a creative genius. I know she doesn't want to own that title. But it's true. She's a member of our think tank, and she's been a longtime member of the copywriter underground, and she is the CEO, chief writer at the creatively named Nicole Morton Agency, so you can check her out there. And before we get to our interview with Amisha, this is the last time that I'm going to mention this for a while. But the Copywriter accelerator is open for two more days. If you're listening as this episode drops, it will close tomorrow, midnight September 1st year 2021. And if you are looking for a program that will help you set your business on the right foundation moving forward so that you're ready in 2022 for the success that you want to create in your business, if you need help with things like mindset and creating packages and the clients want to buy and processes that serve those clients and pricing those packages and branding and getting yourself out in front of the right clients, finding your X factor and so much more, then you'll want to check out the Copywriteraccelerator.com, where you can still join this program for two more days. And if you're listening after September 1st, we will be opening up the Copywriter accelerator again next year. Kira and I are actually working on adding some new and improved content. Everybody who joins this year will get all of that new and improved content next year, but the price will probably go up just depending on what we add. So check out the Copywriteraccelerator.com. Okay, let's jump into our interview with Amisha starting with her story and how she became a copywriter. Amisha:  I started my copywriting business in 2018. I was doing it before I even call myself a copywriter honestly. I had friends like peers who were business coaches because I wanted to be a business coach at the time and not a service provider. I started my online journey in 2016 right after I had my second child and I just knew I wanted to do something that would give me the work life balance and make a good living and do something online. And long story short, my friends, my peers would send me their landing pages or emails to have a look at and make some recommendations. And I would do that. They would take my suggestions and would see some results. And I still didn't know that you could be just paid for doing that. I didn't know that was actually called copywriting or whatever or copy auditing. And I was like, "Who's going to pay for that?" So anyway, fast forward in fall of 2018, I put a stake in the ground and said, "You know what? I think I know enough. And I think this is a thing called copywriting. And I'm going to say no to everyone else. I'm going to say no to trying to get my business coaching off the ground, group programs and building seven dollar passive income products and hoping I would make a grand every day as promised by the influencers out there." Three years ago, it wasn't such a big thing as it is now with low ticket offers and upsells and down sells. So, I was like, "I'm not going to do any of that, I'm just going to do copywriting. I'm going to launch my thing. And I'm going to write copy for business coaches. So I firmly decided that I was going to do it, say goodbye to all the distractions and figure this out. And here we are three years later, mistakes, rejections, nightmare clients, not getting paid on some projects, but also a lot of good stuff that's come out in all of this. Some great peers, supportive community, making... Having those 20K months kind of a thing once in a while, releasing digital products and all that good stuff and future looks exciting. Rob:  That was the perfect way to set up this conversation, because you mentioned all of the things that we should be talking about. But let's start at the very beginning. So people were starting to ask you for help, when you put the stake in the ground, decided that you were going to go forward as a copywriter, how did you start attracting your first clients? What is it that you did to connect with them? Amisha:  I started being active in Facebook groups because I think that was a very dominant strategy at the time, two, three years ago. I think it still is even today to an extent, but I don't know how much it's practiced. But anyway, that was the thing, right? You join Facebook groups, you find people that you want to work with, and you do the value posting, and then you add comments, and then you kind of like showcase your expertise somehow. And there was one particular group that I joined, it was a paid group, and which was good right off the bat, because the people, the quality of people, really, it was high, was good quality. And this group had a job board sort of a thing. And it was a lot to do with digital marketing. And now and then there would be jobs posted about looking for a copywriter, looking to write funnel copy, or emails or sales pages, or social media posts. And I would jump in those and that would apply to those positions to get the gig back in the day, and just see what works. But I think. And what worked for me was I would write a very strong pitch. That Facebook group had maybe 1000 people in there. And there were a lot of people who wanted the same gigs, obviously. And not that I would get every single one of them that I applied for, but I knew I can write and I knew I could position myself differently from others. And I just took a gamble. And I'm like, "Sometimes it paid off." And I got some really good projects out of that. So that was how I got started. And then those clients were happy, they would refer other people, I would apply to more of these job board postings and get myself practice my craft and do what I could. Rob:  So, can you walk us through what some of those early pitches looked like? Obviously, you're doing something because you're connecting with people, but what was it that made your pitches different from the way other people were approaching? Amisha:  So I... And I have this in one of my digital products, there were two ways I would approach it. If I had no experience at all with the client and the kind of project they were looking for, what I would do is lay down a list of certifications, or the training that I've had. I have taken Marie Forleo's, The Copy Cure, I have gone to Copyhackers, I understand this is what I'm willing to do, I'm going to do the research. I will tell them what I was willing to do, even though I had limited experience. And I said... And I was hoping that based on a little bit of my work ethic and the kind of explaining my process, which was even loosey goosey at the time, it wasn't refined, I would hope that that would at least get them to say, "Hey, let's hop on a call and have a conversation."

On the 253rd episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, Laura Briggs breaks down the foundational steps to catapulting your freelance business. Laura is a freelance writer and coach who helps aspiring and current entrepreneurs who are ready to live life on their own terms. Already have a successful business? You’ll hear concepts and ideas through a whole new lens. – Don’t miss this one. Here’s what we talk about: Humans biggest question: “What do I do with my life?” Balancing a full-time job and growing a side hustle business. The best way to use Upwork and break into the freelance writing world. Whether or not you need a website in the beginning. Pitching to clients on weekends through LinkedIn. Your first portfolio and what it needs to include. Landing a 50k ghostwriting book project through Upwork. The pros and cons of Upwork and using it to its fullest potential. Why you need to personalize your pitches. How to overcome the “new writer” syndrome. How retainer projects help you with income projections and how to position yourself to secure the deal. Building your dream work schedule. When you should raise your prices. (and when you shouldn’t.) Creating a writing process that works best for you and your creative genius. Setting boundaries and tuning into the red flags. How to make decisions as a CEO and become an empowered business owner. Sales calls and being okay with the silence. What most freelancers are doing wrong and how to fix it. When you know you’re ready to level up. Delegating to others and creating time and space in your business. Creating a nonprofit around your core values. Offering services that are in demand and match your personality. Check out the transcript below or hit that play button to listen in. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Betterbizacademy.com   Full Transcript: Rob:  Being a successful freelance copywriter is about a lot more than just writing the right words for our clients. There are so many things to think about to do beyond the writing, things like finding clients, or pricing yourself effectively, setting up the right packages, things that our clients actually want to buy, and raising our prices as needed, figuring out retainers, project scope, all of that kind of stuff. Our guest for this episode of the Copywriter Club Podcast is Laura Briggs. Laura is known as The Freelance Coach. And in her business, like we do, she helps freelancers deal with these kinds of challenges. In a moment, we're going to hear how she built her own successful business and then helping others to do the same thing. But first, let me introduce my co-host for today, since Kira is still on maternity leave, Jacob Suckow. Jacob is, I would call him an offer doctor. Jacob, I don't know if you've got a better title for that or not, but he helps his clients really figure out their offers. Jacob:  Awesome. Well, hey Rob, thanks for the introduction, I appreciate it. I don't know if I've ever called myself an offer doctor, but I might have to steal that after today. Excited to be here with you today, excited to hear what Laura has got to say. Rob:  Yeah. I'm looking forward to this conversation also. If you want to find out more about Jacob Suckow, you can find him at top-notchcopy.com, but don't forget the dash. And one of the things, Jacob, I'm going to mention this, even though it's not really live here, you're playing around with this idea of a paid newsletter that you're thinking about doing, talking about all the things about starting a successful solopreneur business. Maybe just give us like a one-liner for what that might turn into when it gets launched. Jacob:  Yeah, sure. So there's a big gap in content out there for people like us who are just building something on their own. And typically, we get a lot of really great feedback on everything except financials, sales, pipeline, and behind the curtain marketing and growth strategies. And so that's what we'll be doing, 100% behind the scenes, full transparency look into QuickBooks, my pipeline, client work, and everything that I'm doing that's either working or not. Rob:  That sounds really cool. I can't wait to check it out when it goes live, we'll keep everybody informed when it launches. So before we get to our interview with Laura, like last week, I'm going to switch things up just a little bit and talk about the Copywriter Accelerator. That's because the Copywriter Accelerator, if we've timed this right, is actually opening up today. The accelerator itself is made up of eight modules, it takes about 16 weeks. We go through it not as a course, but as a program so that you're going through with several other copywriters, figuring out things like business mindset, the kind of business that you want to build packages, processes, pricing, branding, getting yourself in front of the right clients, figuring out your X factor, and a lot more. If that sounds like something you're ready to do in your business, check out the copywriteraccelerator.com. Like I said, it's now open and the cart will be open until, I believe September 1st. We would love to work with you in the accelerator if that's a fit for you and your business. So let's jump into our interview with Laura and her story and find out how she became known as The Freelance Coach. Laura:  I started freelancing in 2012 and was able to leave my full-time job, I used to be a seventh grade teacher. And other people started following that story, and I got profiled in Business Insider, and then that led to strangers asking me about how I did it. And so eventually, I was doing all these one-on-one coffee chats, helping people, especially teachers, telling them how to get started, how to create samples. And then I realized that this would be so much easier if I just consolidated it in one place and had a website and a podcast and free resources that people could use. And so, I've been doing that since 2015. And I've worked with a lot of different freelancers. They've come through my courses or read my books or have been one-on-one coaching clients. And it's been really interesting to see things that I've experienced also be validated by other people and get to see some of the trends that are coming before they really hit the marketplace in a big way. So it's led to a lot of other speaking engagements about future of work as well. Rob:  So when you were a teacher, what was the impetus to make you think, "I'm not doing this anymore, I need to find something else"? And how was it that you settled on freelancing, writing and the stuff that you've ended up doing? Laura:  Well, teaching is an exhausting job. I have a lot of respect for every single person who is a teacher in this country, especially if they have made it to the retirement mark, because I don't know how you did that job for 20 or 30 years and didn't lose your mind. I was working 14 hours a day. Then I would go home and I would grade papers and I would do lesson plans for the next day. I worked in a very high needs district, I taught in downtown Baltimore. We didn't have enough desks or seats for the students, we did not have enough books. I had to use my own personal laptop. It was really, really rough to try to keep up with that pace. I hadn't studied education either, so I went in through a program that was very similar to Teach for America and had a total of six weeks of training to teach seventh grade. It was not enough, as you can imagine. And so I was really getting burned out. Honestly, it was another teacher of mine who inspired me. I had a professor in college, I took his contemporary literature class, and he pulled me aside after class one day with a paper I had written, and he said, "Have you ever thought about changing majors from economics to English?" And I was like, "No, I'm almost done with college, I'm not starting a whole new thing." But that comment stayed in my mind. And so I thought, "Well, maybe I do have some writing ability that if I learned it and I finessed it and got at taking feedback, that this could go somewhere." So I literally Googled how to become a freelance writer and read and absorbed everything I could. Rob:  And what were those first steps that you took as you broke out? Did you just leave teaching cold turkey, "I'm out, I'm doing something new"? Or did you transition out slowly? Laura:  I transitioned to a different job first. I was about to finish up the school year, and an old boss of mine reached out to me and they knew I was teaching because it was the job I'd had before I went into teaching. And she said, "We have another job opening up, we'll wait for you to finish the school year." And it was in marketing, so it was related, I'd be doing some writing. And I thought, "Well, this will be a good transition. I'll do this for a year while I figure out what to do with my life." Because I was in a PhD program at that time, I wanted to be a professor, I really thought I was going to go into traditional education, and teaching middle school just completely killed that for me, I didn't want anything to do with education for awhile. So I took a job, that job doing marketing. I stayed there for 13 months. I started my side hustle at the same time that I started that job, but I wanted to give myself a real year to figure out one, was this even sustainable? I didn't know if there were seasons to freelance writing, I didn't know if this was something I could keep up with every month or if it would just be a side hustle. So my goal was to make it 12 months and really see what the revenue looked like and if I could make that decision to take the leap from there. And that's when I left and went full-time in the summer of 2013. Rob:  Okay. So let's talk about the balance then.

On the 252nd episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, we dive deep into courage with Heather Hubbard. After some unforeseen events and challenges, Heather shifted from powerful lawyer to powerful CEO of Simple Courage. Heather describes Simple Courage as more than a mantra but a mission and movement to both individual and collective change. Here’s how it all goes down: Why the drastic shift from lawyer to Simple Courage movement. What to do when we can’t get ideas out of our heads. Making major shifts and strides in the middle of a pandemic. Dealing with dysfunctional relationships and tragic life events and moving forward. Saving face and not being true to one’s self. The standards that are set by society and how to break them. Why being uncomfortable can be good and bad. How to choose or recreate your own stories. The 4 types of courage and changing between each. The difference between fearlessness and courage. Showing up brave because you have to rather than wanting to. How to figure out why we’re afraid of something in the first place. Why it’s important to stay curious and color your hair pink. Things we let slide because we think we’re being brave. Leaning into your values and taking a stand for what you believe. What we are actually afraid of happening when we have Simple Courage. How Simple Courage can work in your favor if you allow it to. The everyday effects of the different types of courage. Listen to the episode or read the podcast for inspiration on stepping into your own power.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Tamara’s website Simple Courage website Simple Courage podcast Heather's program The Alter Ego Effect by Todd Herman   Full Transcript: Rob:  What does being courageous mean to you? Is it being brave enough to run into a burning building to save someone? Is it standing up for what you believe in, or maybe standing up to protect others? Most of us grow up with the idea that courage is a good thing to have, but we're not always courageous in the things that we do. Our guests for the 252nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Heather Hubbard. She's the founder of Simple Courage of movement that is helping people embrace courage and change their lives, and we think that you're going to like what she has to share. But first, before we get to that, Kira is still on maternity leave. This is starting to feel to me like the never ending maternity leave. So I have my special guest hosts to help with some of the comments on this episode, Tamara Glick. Tamara is a copywriter, brand stylist, brand voice specialist, and so many things. She helps us with some of the stuff that we do in the think tank. Tamara, welcome to the show. Thanks for being here. Tamara:  Thank you so much, Rob. Man, oh man, I am so excited about this conversation. This is the deep meaty stuff that I love. Forget the small talk, tell me about your biggest fear and your deepest secret, I'm a vault. That's everything I want to know. So thank you so much for having me back for this one, Rob. Rob:  You're not getting my deepest secrets, but we'll be talking about some other things on the show. Tamara:  That's okay. Rob:  And also just as a reminder, Tamara has actually been on the show as a guest before, that's episode number 142 of The Copywriter Club Podcast. If you want to listen to what she shared there, all about like style, copy style, all of that stuff. It was really good interview, so check that out. Before we get into our interview with Heather though, I'm going to switch things up a little bit and instead of telling you about The Copywriter Think Tank, which of course is still available. If you're interested, go to copywriterthinktank.com, but next week we are opening up The Copywriter Accelerator, and this is our 16-week program. We only do it twice a year. This is the last time that we're doing it this year. It opens up next week. It's eight modules, talking about things like mindset packages, processes, pricing, branding, getting yourself in front of the right clients, x-factor, all of the things that lay the foundation for a successful business. It's not a course, it's a program that you go through with a community of other copywriters and as we'll be sharing in the free Facebook group and in other places, there have been some amazing copywriters who've gone through that program and just done really incredible things with their business. And so if you are interested in hearing more about The Copywriter Accelerator, go to thecopywriteraccelerator.com, get on the wait list. This next week there'll be a webinar all about pricing. The webinar is free, so you can check the data out, learn a little bit more about the accelerator and see if it's a fit for your business. If you've done anything with us before, you know that Kira and I are into the hard sell thing, but we will tell you the information you need to make decisions, see if this is right for you. So go to thecopywriteraccelerator.com. If you're listening to this between August 24th and September 1st, the doors are open, so you get yourself in there. If it's before that, get on that wait list. And if it's after that, sorry, you're going to have to wait until next year. So here we go. Okay. Let's jump into our interview with Heather, with her story and ask her how she became the founder of Simple Courage. Heather:  It's a really long journey and a really long story, so I'll try to keep it brief. I was going through a lot in my life at a point in about, I don't know, 2011, 2012? And I started on this journey of really trying to discover who am I? What am I here to do? And why is my life a complete mess? It looks great on the outside, but inside, internally it's a mess. And so it was on that journey that I really had to start looking at my own fears. And it was during that time that I discovered the concept of Simple Courage for myself. And I thought, "Oh, that's really brilliant." It was one of those like moments, those like aha lightning moments where I was like, "Oh, this is good. This is really good. This is not just for me." And so I wrote it down, I got a Sharpie and I got a post-it note out and I wrote down, Simple Courage. And I posted it up on the wall in front of my computer and my desk because I knew that it was really, really good and it needed to be shared with the world. So I just looked at it and sat on it for, I don't know, five, six years, because this is what we do when we're afraid to bring something to the world. I thought it was too big for me, too big for my voice. Recently I was a lawyer, I was a partner at a really large law firm. I was a strategic coach and consultant, and so I thought everyone wanted my brains, and my strategy, and my advice, and that's how I would monetize my life. I wasn't sure that I could actually bring a mission, a message, a movement to the world. And so it literally sat up on that wall. I kept just looking at it for years and years and years. I guess I was slowly doing just little bits and pieces with it. And in May of 2019, I decided that I was really going to develop a keynote around it because I was already doing a lot of public speaking, and so I did that. And then in May of 2020 during the pandemic, I decided I was going to stop the podcast that I had, Hustle & Flow and move to Simple Courage. And the pandemic really did a number on my business. I used to do really high in masterminds, coaching consulting, and I knew I had to pivot. And I was like, "Well, if I'm going to pivot, why not go all in on Simple Courage?" And that's when you and I started working together fall of last year, and here we are. We're recording this now in May of 2021 and we're about to do our founders launch. So it was a six-year journey. Rob:  Heather, when you said your life was a mess or whatever, tell us a little bit more about that. What was so messy? Because being a high-end attorney, leading new masterminds, whatever that sounds pretty great. So what was the mess? Heather:  The mess was that I had a lot of really dysfunctional relationships personally, with my husband, with friends, with my family, with my colleagues, with my bosses. And what I mean by that is I was very much a people pleaser and I didn't have very good boundaries at all. And quite frankly, I let people walk all over me. I don't think I realized I was doing that, but it was pointed out to me from a therapist when I was doing an intervention with my husband. There was a year when literally everything in my personal life seemed to be just going wrong. My husband was an addict, I had been covering that up for years. My sister died that same year. I was in a walking boot for eight or nine months that year, because I tried to run a half marathon and had a stress fracture. It just seemed like everything was going wrong. And so I was showing up in the courtroom, I was showing up in board rooms being big and brave and fighting, and yet behind the scenes, it just seemed like my life was... Like I was a fraud, like I was a complete mess in so many different ways and yet no one had a clue, no one had a clue. Kira:  How do you come back from that? What are some steps you take when you realize things aren't aligned and I'm showing up one way, my life has a different way? What happened behind the scenes to get to you to the point where you were able to make those bigger life changes and business changes? Heather:  Unfortunately I feel like everything had to fall apart for me to be ready to actually make a change. And I would love to say that I saw it coming or I was being proactive. The truth is I really do feel as though I fell hard on the floor and was like, "Something has to give.

On the 251st episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, we’re joined by none other than  Laura Belgray. Laura is the founder of Talking Shrimp and co-creator of The Copy Cure with Marie Forleo. It’s been a few years since she’s been on the show, and in which time she’s done everything she said she wasn’t going to do in her business. No matter where you are in your copywriting, you’ll hear countless insights you can apply to your own business. Ready to take notes? How to go from copywriter for clients to being a copywriter for yourself. What hiring team members can do for you and your business growth. (Hint: explode) The shift from being someone’s copywriter to stepping into your own voice and brand. Becoming the course creator and getting paid to write emails to your list. Igniting your brand so people know you exist. Why you need to start pitching yourself (yesterday). Envisioning what you truly want in your business and what it will take to get there. Laura’s website transformation and creating her own museum for people to take pictures with. (It’s the end of an era!) Hiring a coach to help with pivots and rebrands. Emailing your list 3x a week. Should you do it? How sharing your content and articles can prove to build your authority. — As long as it’s shareable. The fastest way to learn new information or processes. What you should be telling your list to create meaningful connections and to dig deeper into their wants and needs. The myths of managing a team. Why you need to be super clear and honest with your list about what your purpose is. How to boost your creativity when the wheels aren’t turning. The raw and real truth of writing a book. — You may need to quiet your ego. How many copywriters of today are becoming shadows and what you can do to ensure it doesn’t happen to you. The future of copywriting and what absolutely has got to go. What Laura does to make money by being herself (and while sitting on her couch.) There are many ways to create a successful copywriting business, and Laura’s method is one worth listening to. Press play or check out the transcript below.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Laura’s first episode Laura’s website Laura’s subject line resource Full Transcript: Rob:  A lot can change in three years. Heck, if the last year has taught us anything, it's that things can change quickly, and they change faster than we think. Our guest for this episode is Laura Belgray, and Laura was on our podcast a little over three years ago. That was episode 15, where she talked about the kind of business that she had, and she talked about a lot of things that she wasn't even interested in doing. Now, three years later, that's all changed. She's built the business that she said she didn't want, and she loves it. So we're going to get into the details of that change, and what Laura has done with her business. But first, let me introduce my co-host for today, copywriter and launch strategist, Brittany McBean. Welcome, Brittany. Brittany:  Thanks, thanks for having me. I've told you that my life goal is to be Kira when I grow up, so now I'm just one step closer. Rob:  Yeah, right, if Kira decides not to come back, you can just stay. Brittany:  I'm taking her spot, watch out. Rob:  Exactly. You've been warned Kira. I'm excited to have Brittany here to share her thoughts about what we chatted with Laura today. But before we get to that interview and to the things that we want to share, this is your weekly reminder that this episode of The Copywriter Club podcast is brought to you by The Copywriter Think Tank. That's our mastermind for copywriters and marketers who are doing some pretty big things in their business, becoming better copywriters, creating products, maybe creating things like video shows, like what Brittany has on YouTube, podcasts, even building agencies, product companies. If you want to do something interesting like that in your business, and become the person that high-paying clients call because you're the person that they know, that's what we help copywriters do in the think tank. To learn more, visit copywriterthinktank.com so that we can chat about whether it's a fit for you. Okay. So let's jump into our interview with Laura Belgray, and find out more about her business and what's changed. Brittany:  What have you been doing since we spoke to you on episode 15? Four and a half years ago. Laura:  Four and a half years ago, right. We just established that was 2017. And I mean so much, like my business was totally different then, which I guess we'll get into, we can get into it right now, so back then we talked about copywriting for clients and that's what I was doing and that's all that I was doing. Now I don't do that anymore, so my business looks totally different. I have a group program called Shrimp Club which runs for nine months of the year, we just wrapped round three, and it was amazing. I have a couple of courses, one of which I'm launching right now, it's called Inbox Hero and one called Launch Hero. I love selling those. So, my business is all the kind of business that I said didn't want to have, but now I have it and I'm so happy about it. So that's pretty much what I've been doing. Rob:  Let's talk about that, because like you said, that's not what you had planned on four years ago, but it is what you are today. So like why the change, what made you evolve to what you've got today? Laura:  Yeah, it's funny, I was just looking at the transcript for our first episode, episode 15, and it's so funny. I see a lot of myself saying, well, I never want to have a team. Brittany:  Did you say that? Laura:  I did. I said, I don't want a team. I know everybody says that that's what it takes to get to the magical seven figure mark, which I would love to do. That's what I was saying to you then, but I just don't want a team and I don't want that kind of business. Then I hired somebody in 2018, her name is Sandra, I don't know if you know her, but Sandra Booker, she's amazing and not available. I found her through Tarzan Kay. Rob:  Yeah, a lot of people like Sandra, I've heard her name passed around quite a bit. Laura:  She's very popular, very popular. Everybody tries to hire her and I think you can, for a little bit of consulting, possibly, and she has a mastermind that helps you with your tech stack and stuff like that, or that you can send your VA to. So, hiring Sandra, at first I didn't really know what I wanted to do with her, but you know what, Tarzan wrote a Facebook post about her back in, I guess it was 2018 and said the magic words. She said, since I hired Sandra, I've been making so much more money. For me, that's always a go that's a yes. So I was like, tell me about this Sandra. I just jumped on the chance to hire her and did, and didn't really know what we did. It took us a little while to find our groove, cause I didn't really know what kind of work to give her. I was a little confused about it. She took on the scheduling of my clients, and in fact that summer my dad died that summer and she was just absolutely crucial, helping me reschedule things like taking things off my plate that I just did not have the wherewithal to handle. I was like, I need to be off the grid and not dealing with client stuff and I don't want to explain to everybody what I'm going through right now, and have to deal with everyone's kindnesses, and all of that. She did it for me, and I think that was the first time I was like, oh, thank God I have an assistant. She turned out to be my way more than an assistant and I refer to her as my manager, she's an online business manager. She started clearing the way for me to create a lot more, to take on more, to take on projects, to actually build things, create things, rebrand and create mini-courses and sell mini-courses, and set them up with links. Then, all the integrations and things that I would have sat there researching all day and probably didn't do it because of that. Also, client work got in the way. So, I think most copywriters go through this. They would like to scale or take on, at a certain point they say, you know what? I want to run. I want to have something on my own to sell. I sell for everybody else. I have the skills to use words that sell, and I'm doing it for everybody, but me, I want to create something. But then they have so much client work that they can't get to their own work, which I'm sure is something that you can both relate to from when that was your whole world. So, I think taking on hiring Sandra and saying, okay, I can at least have some support, even if I don't want a team, that changed everything. That set things in motion. Then a couple of, I'd say, mindset shifts that came to me, like visions, in that same year, 2017 when I talked to you, I think I had just realized that I was tired of being referred to as so-and-so's copywriter, like people would call me Marie Forleo's copywriter and that wasn't even true. I was her writing partner and helped her with some copywriting, like scripting episodes, but I wasn't her copywriter, she did her own copywriting. That made me uncomfortable, and always being called somebody's secret weapon or, oh, you write copy for so-and-so, you're the real deal. I'm like, no, I want to be defined as the real deal in my own right. I decided I wanted to be Laura (beep) Belgray. I didn't want to be anybody's anything. I didn't want to be, Laura Marie's copywriter, or Laura so-and-so's copywriter. I wanted to be Laura (beep) Belgray, and I wanted to be a brand and a name in my own right, and I realized that that would require certain things. Like that would require making more of a mark with my output, with my content,

On the 250th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast (250 episodes?! Get out of here!), we’ve got a few things in store. Have you ever wondered what other copywriters are charging for their deliverables? Today, we’re giving you a breakdown. We’re also joined by a few special guests, so be sure to listen to what it’s all about. 250th episode breakdown: What other copywriters are charging for sales pages at different levels in their businesses. The median and averages of copywriter yearly incomes. Why experience doesn't have to be the only factor when you’re ready to up your prices. Can you actually charge 45k for a sales page? Kira and baby Homer’s guest appearance. (Homer’s first podcast interview.) How new additions to the home can create a new dynamic in the household. (Even Kira’s cat has been needy as of late.) Creating new boundaries with a new baby and how having a team can be beneficial. Kira and Rob’s strengths when it comes to The Copywriter Club business. What the Accelerator is and who it’s good for. Gaining clarity and confidence in your business journey. Navigating how you should find your ideal clients and getting super clear on your systems and processes. Finding a community that is supportive and will lend a hand when you need one. Why Kira is the best at finding what makes you weird. (She loves to use questions.) How to begin focusing on what you really love to write. Accountability groups and why they’re vital to leveling up your business. When you should raise your prices and not feel like an imposter. Building your business at your own pace and your own way. Ready to start charging your worth? Tune into the episode. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Think Tank The Copywriter Accelerator The Ultimate Copywriter Salary Guide  Full Transcript: Transcript is underway...

We interviewed Aly Goulet for the 249th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Aly is a SaaS copywriter and content strategist. She started her content writing business while still in college, and took it all the way when she graduated. By using her cold pitch method, she’s been able to book clients in her niche and she breaks down how she made it happen in this episode. Here’s the rundown: The scrappy method and when it may be time to start investing in your business and skill set growth. Skyrocketing and hitting goals in your business in 1 year. How many cold pitches you should send a day if you want to find clients fast. Why you should actually narrow in the type of clients you want to work with. What to include in your monthly retainers and how you should go about pricing them. When your cold pitches should be long or short and why. Perfecting your project management process, so you don’t get lost in all the moving pieces of retainer deliverables. How even copywriters need automations to keep up with their projects and save time. What you can start doing to get out of feast and famine mode. The science of connecting with people on LinkedIn. (Plus, your new cold pitch message.) The quickest, easiest way to become visible online. Why you shouldn’t put your own business on the backburner. (Hint: You won’t forget about your clients.) What happens after you start hitting your income goals. What’s next? Do’s and don’t of creating an epic portfolio. The newest WordPress plugin to make building out your portfolio easier. (You’re the best, Aly!) How the Think Tank has helped in reaching her goals in her business. How thinking of your business as an asset will propel you forward tenfold. If you’re tired of the merry-go-round of gaining clients, tune into this episode or check out the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Think Tank Brandon’s episode Brandon’s website Aly’s website Aly’s premium portfolio plugin Full Transcript: Rob:  If you're a regular listener to this podcast, you no doubt have noticed the many differences in how copywriters make their living. Most of us earn money from writing content or copy, but still structure our businesses differently. Some charge by project, others work on retainers, and still others offer day rates and VIP days. But that's just the beginning in the differences that we have as copywriters. Some copywriters consult on funnels and offers that audit websites and campaigns. Some structure their work so that they earn royalties, when a promotion does well. And still others create their own products to sell. Today's guest on the podcast is Aly Goulet. She's tried several of these approaches, very successfully, and recently launched a WordPress plugin to help copywriters show off their best work. We'll talk more about that in a minute. But first I need to introduce my guest host for this episode, Brandon Burton. Brandon is a copywriter and a brand voice strategist, and he is also the community manager for the Copywriter Club, Facebook groups. Brandon, welcome to this episode. Brandon:  Thanks for having me, Rob. I really appreciate it. Rob:  Yeah, of course. So, before we get to all of this other stuff, just really quickly, not only do you manage our communities on Facebook, but you have your own community. Just take a second to tell us a little bit about that. Brandon:  Yeah. I started a community called Our Children's World, quite recently. And yeah, it's just helping parents tackle the reality in the next few years and helping us raise children who can survive in it and thrive in it. Rob:  Awesome. And you have a couple of young kids yourself, so you're like a man deep in it. Brandon:  Yeah. Yeah, like yourself. Yeah. I've got free. Yeah, they definitely made me realize this conversation we're having. Rob:  Awesome. And if after listening to this episode, if you like what you've heard from Brandon, check out episode number 215 of the Copywriter Club Podcast, he was our guest for that episode and talked a little bit about his approach to Brand Voice and some of the stuff that he does for us. Again, thanks Brandon for joining me for some of the additional comments in this episode. Before we get to Aly Goulet, and our interview with her, I want to just quickly mention the Copywriter Think Tank, that's our mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to do more in their business and their work, whether that's creating a product or a podcast, or a video show, whether you want to build an agency, product company, like what Aly is building. Maybe you want to become just the best copywriter in your niche. That's the kind of stuff that we focus on with the members of the Copywriter Think Tank. If you'd like to learn more about how you can join, we promise no hard sell, just information, visit copywriterthinktank.com, and maybe you can join this group of extra ordinary business owners too. Okay. So, let's jump into our interview with Aly, and find out more about her business and the clients that she works with. Aly:  The WordPress plugin creator part happened a lot later. So, I'll start with the writer and content strategist. It all really happened by accident. I was working a job where I was just really exhausted and working nights. And I was coming to the end of that opportunity where I had to figure out if I wanted to extend my role or not. And I really didn't want to. So, I decided to go on an internship site because I was still in college at the time, and start applying for remote internships. And pretty soon, I landed my first client who was paying me to write blog posts. And that's when I was like, "Oh, wait a minute." Because I've always been interested in writing, so it was something that came naturally to me, but it wasn't something that I realized that people would actually pay me to do until I saw those opportunities there. And so, for a little while I was doing content, I was doing outreach for a radio show. I interned for an independent artists booking shows. I was doing everything I could remotely that would make me money. But writing clients were the ones that I liked the most. So, ultimately, that's what I settled into. Kira:  So, you started your writing career while in college? Aly:  Yes. Kira:  Okay. So, how long were you doing it while you were still in college before you graduated? Aly:  So, it was about two and a half years. Yeah, two and a half, three years, part-time. And it was going really well. During college, it's what helped me pay for school. That's what I was using that income for. And I didn't want to stop the momentum. So, once I graduated, I'm like, "Okay, this is the thing we're doing now." Kira:  How did you build momentum once you graduated and you were committed? You're like, "This is what I'm going to do. This is my career." How did you gain that traction early on after graduation? Aly:  Yeah. So, the funny thing about the way that I started is I was really scrappy in the beginning and I did not spend any money on anything at all. And when I decided that I was going to do this full time, I thought, "Okay. Well, I need to invest in my professional development here." Because I had no professional experience in anything at all. Writing is really the only thing I've ever done professionally. So, I joined a mastermind the first year that I decided to go full time in 2018. And I went through that whole program and it was so helpful for me. And it's the thing that kick-started me into being able to go full-time and realize what that really takes. Kira:  When did you get to the point where you're like, "I figured this out. This is great. I'm going to keep doing this. This is working." Aly:  Yep. By the end of that program, which was a six month program, I had met the goal of doubling my income and surpassed it. So, I was like, "Okay. This is a thing that I can do for sure." I had proven that to myself. Kira:  And what did you do in that program? I'm sure some people listening, might be wondering, what is that program? And what were the activities that you focused on in that program that helped you get to that point? Aly:  Sure. So, if I can give it a shout out, it was the 2X Accelerator by Carol Tice. It was a really good program, just walking through the basics. I remember the first module very clearly was like, where's your low hanging fruit? Right? So, going back to people that you have worked with and trying to get projects. I won't go through every module, but basically it was really methodical. And the part that changed everything for me was marketing and networking. I really started getting on LinkedIn a lot more during that program and making connections. And so, I think before that, I really wasn't telling anybody that I was a writer. I was just pitching things and taking jobs when I got them. I had my Upwork profile, but I wasn't really visible at all. And doing that was my first experience with getting a little bit of visibility and branching out of my non-existent network, at that point. I say branching out, but I think I had like 35 LinkedIn connections at the time. Kira:  And how many connections do you have today on LinkedIn? Aly:  Over 5000. So, it's been quite a change on that front. Kira:  Okay. So, can you just talk about your growth from graduation 2018, right? Aly:  Yeah. I graduated at the very end of 2017. So, my first month going full-time was January 2018. Kira:  Okay. So, since graduation from college, 2017 to now, 2021, can you just talk about the business growth in terms of numbers or anything you're comfortable sharing, just to show the power of what you've been doing and how it's worked? Aly:  Yeah. So, I mean,