TCC Podcast #255: Become a Better Course Creator with Jennifer Duann Fultz

Jennifer Duann Fultz disrupts the status quo on the 255th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Jennifer is the founder and CEO of Chief Executive Auntie, a business aimed to teach WOC business owners how to make more money online through course creation. Interested in creating a better course experience for your students? Tune into the episode to find out how. It breaks down like this: The importance of promoting alternative and diverse voices. Money mindset and how it can affect your life (and business). The stories that are deeply rooted in us from the way we grow up. Why you don’t need to attract every single person into your course. (It’s okay to repel people.) How using your background can propel your business forward. The better way to create a course and guide students to an outcome. How to be the guide your students need and understand where they are coming from. Why you need to prime your students before they reach the next level. Customer research and the effect it has on your course creation. Increasing course completion rates and being selective on who joins your program. Building a lead magnet that will actually help your ideal prospects. Figuring out your strengths and not being tempted to try and do everything. The reality of passive income. (Is it even a thing?) Shifting from employee mindset to CEO mindset and knowing when it’s okay to step away. Being multi-passionate and creating structure to get things done. When it’s time to hire help in your business in order to avoid burnout. Become a better course creator by listening to the episode or checking out the transcript below.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Christy’s website Jennifer’s website   Full Transcript: Rob:  A lot of copywriters buy courses, or write for course creators, or have created their own courses as part of their work. And lately, there seems to be a sense that courses may not be as easy to create and sell as they once were. Some course creators have been criticized for low completion rates. We've heard numbers as low as 4% of people buying courses that actually finish the course. Or they're criticized for signing up students who shouldn't be in a course in the first place. Our guest for the 255th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Jennifer Duann Fultz. And she knows a thing or two about creating and selling courses because that's what she does in her business. So I asked her about these challenges and a lot more. But first, let me introduce my co-host for today, Christy Cegelski. Christy is a copywriter who specializes in copy that connects, captivates, and converts. She is a Think Tank member and host of her own podcast, The Captivate and Convert Podcast. I was lucky enough to be featured with Kira as a guest on that podcast. I think if I'm remembering right, it was Episode 29 right in there somewhere. Christy:  Somewhere around there, yeah. Rob:  Yeah, I think I'm like, one of two male guests that you've had in the runs of our site. I feel kind of lucky to be included amongst so many brilliant women. Christy:  Yeah. Rob:  But, yeah. Welcome, Christy. Thanks for joining. Christy:  Well, thanks for having me. This is exciting. I've never been a co-host. Rob:  Well, and now you are. So yeah, I mean, we can maybe make this permanent if it turns out well. Christy:  Check. Rob:  This is your audition. Christy:  Check. Rob:  I like it. If you want to know more about Christy, you can see her at christycegelski.com. Of course, subscribe to her podcast, The Captivate and Convert Podcast. She was actually a guest on our own podcast, Episode number 226. About what? That was probably five, six months ago now. Christy:  Yeah. Rob:  A really good interview about what you've done in your business and how your businesses has grown and developed from product marketing to what you do today, helping people actually connect with their clients. It's a great interview. Christy:  Thank you. I got a lot of messages about it. It's funny because I totally felt like I bombed it, but hey, if somebody got something out of it, it's all good. Rob:  It definitely did not bomb. I'm excited to talk about Jennifer's interview here in just a second. But before we get to that, let's mention that this podcast is sponsored by the Copywriter Think Tank. That's our mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to do more in their business. Maybe you've dreamed of stepping on stage or creating a new product or a podcast or a video channel or maybe you want to build an agency or a product company, or maybe you just want to become the best known copywriter in your niche, the person that high paying clients call because your name is the one that everyone in your industry knows. That's the kind of thing that we focus on in the Think Tank. If you'd like to learn more, visit copywriterthinktank.com. Okay. Now that we've got all of that out of the way, let's start our interview with Jennifer's story and how she became an online course creator and Chief Executive Auntie. Jennifer:  I taught high school science for a total of three years. During those years, and in between those years, I sort of dabbled in freelance digital marketing and photography. But after I became a parent, I started my current business, largely because I didn't think I could be both the type of parent and the type of teacher I wanted to be at the same time. And now that my child is in kindergarten and I have met their teacher, I was like, "I was right. I don't think I could do this". And so, I started my business and I originally tried to be a chirpy white mommy blogger, which didn't work for a lot of reasons, and about to the end. I did a lot of freelance; web design, content writing, dabbled in some other document design type of things, and didn't really have a clear vision of what I wanted to do besides make a bit of money in a small amount of time. But in 2019, I did something called the Year of Asian Reading Challenge, which is hosted on a couple of book blogs. It was a really good experience for me just as a person because I thought it would be really hard to find books by Asian and Asian American writers, and it wasn't. The only time I had to sort of break that streak of reading only books by Asian and Asian-American writers was when I wanted to read about business. After looking and looking and looking, and I did start to find more Asian American business owners, but there still weren't a lot of resources out there so I do what I typically do, which is decided to make my own resources about business from one Asian American perspective. And I say from one Asian American perspective because there's very many different Asian American experiences, and mine is just one of them. That's how the Chief Executive Auntie persona was kind of born. I took the... And I feel like it's not limited to just Asians. I feel like every person on earth understands what the well-meaning kind of nosy, kind of loud truth-telling telling auntie in their life is like. And so, that's kind of where she came from. Rob:  Nice. Jennifer:  It was from that experience. Rob:  Okay, cool. I want to ask more about that. But first, tell us a little bit more about the Asian reading experience, like some of your favorite books that came out of that in case some of our listeners would like to be pointed in that direction. Because you're right, and we've actually talked about this before in the podcast especially when it comes to marketing. It's overwhelmingly male, it's overwhelmingly white. There's not a lot we can necessarily do about the history, but there's definitely a lot of things we can do moving forward doing the right voices. So for those who might be saying, "Yeah, I actually haven't read a lot of Asian writers," give us a couple of your favorites just so we have a place to start. Jennifer:  Yeah. I think I probably have a list on my personal blog somewhere. If I find it, I'll send it to you. Rob:  Okay. Jennifer:  But some of my favorite authors that I found in that time, Ken Liu. If you like science fiction fantasy, he writes both. In 2019, I think I read one of his fantasy books, but then I later got a book of science fiction short stories that I really liked called The Paper Menagerie. Rebecca Kuang; she writes fantasy that is based on and informed by the history of 20th century China. And kind of a side note. I didn't learn Asian history, any of it really in school. If anything, it was just... Even World War II, where Asia's kind of a big deal, you know? Just minor detail. There wasn't a lot discussed about the Pacific front besides really the atomic bomb at least in my schooling experience. And so, I learned a lot... What history and culture that I did learn about China and Taiwan has come a lot of times from fiction and from memoir because it's not covered in the textbook. So just kind of a side note there. Speaking of memoir, Two Trees Make a Forest, which is an eco memoir, kind of about the nature and heritage of Taiwan, which is where my parents are from. I'm kind of blanking a little bit. I'll see if I can find that list to share with you. Rob:  Okay. If you share that, we can link to that so that people can clue in there, but I appreciate that. As somebody, I mean, similar school experience, a little bit of discussion in World War II. I did take an Asian History class in college, but that's not taught to everybody, right? So I appreciate you sharing that. Okay. Let's go back to then starting Chief Executive Auntie. How did you get started? What services did you start offering? How'd you find your first clients? Let's talk about that. Jennifer:  Yeah. Auntie doesn't have a...