TCC Podcast #230: Answering Your Most FAQs with Kira Hug and Rob Marsh

On the 230th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, Rob and Kira are going guestless. They’re sitting back and answering some questions they get frequently among our community. They’re giving their best advice and tips for new and established copywriters who are looking to level up and sustain what they’re building. In this episode, we dive into: •   when you’ll get the chance to build the foundations of your business with us in just 3 months •   the truth about working for free - should you do it? •   how to hire a VA that will pay for themselves. •   9 books we’re reading right now - one genre? Never. •   the #1 question we get asked every. single. day. •   the 3 biggest levers when it comes to pricing your offers. •   how to choose the most profitable niches in copywriting. •   the good and the bad of Clubhouse. (Note: We will be on Clubhouse on Tuesdays at 5PM EST.) •   if you don’t have copywriting samples for a particular project, here’s what you should do. •   the secret to building trust with potential clients. •   what Rob & Kira would do differently if they were beginners. •   success as a copywriter - how we define success •   how to maintain your business as you’re helping scale others. Tune in and listen as we give candid advice on your most asked questions. Hit the play button below or check out the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Club Annual Event - Early Bird Sale Ends March 22nd Done by Noon by Dave Ruel Ready, Fire, Aim by Michael Masterson & Mark Ford Yes to Life by Viktor Frankl Man Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt Facing the Climate Emergency by Margaret Salamon Fair Play by Eve Rodsky The Uninhabitable Earth by David Wallace-Wells Lives of the Stoics by Ryan Holiday The Copywriter’s Ultimate Guide to Using Clubhouse Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:   If you've been listening to the show for the last three plus years, you no doubt have heard us ask hundreds, maybe even thousands of questions to the amazing copywriters and experts who have been on the show. We've even asked a few people to join us and turn the tables to ask us questions. Today we're going guestless for the 230th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, and we're answering the questions that get asked the most often in our free Facebook group, as well as some questions that are asked in our paid programs, like The Copywriter Accelerator and The Copywriter Underground. Kira Hug:   When you say guestless, it makes it sound like we're naked. Rob Marsh:   Does it? Kira Hug:   Like we're missing something. Yeah, it sounds like we're shedding all the layers today and it's just us. Rob Marsh:   Nice. I would hate to think that people would think that we're not clothed here, but yeah, that's ... How embarrassing. Kira Hug:   It's just us today, naked and we're going to answer your questions. Before we do that, this podcast episode is brought to you by TCC(N)IRL, of course it's The Copywriter Club (Not) In Real Life, our event for copywriters and other smart marketers who want to learn from experts like Joanna Wiebe, Carline Anglade-Cole, Todd Brown, Jereshia Hawk, Joel Klettke, Eman Ismail and more than a dozen others. But this event is not just about great presentations, it's not just about sitting at your computer and staring at Zoom all day. It's really about connecting with other copywriters in intimate virtual spaces so you can build real relationships, even possibly friendships, partnerships, and also get a lot of work done while you're with us over the three days. So we're really focused on doing, not just learning, and we're focused on implementation through workshops. So you're not just sitting through a presentation and then going back to your work with nothing to show for it. So if you're interested in this virtual experience that we're really excited about, you can learn more at thecopywriterclub.com\tccnirl-2021, and if you don't remember that link, then you can just find it in the show notes on our website. Rob Marsh:   Yeah, I'm excited. That's going to be April 7th through 9th, 2021. If you're listening to this after that, you missed the opportunity to join us, but if you're listening before those dates, make sure you join us. It's going to be great. Okay, so let's open up, I want to say the mailbag. We don't actually get any real mail, email bag or the Facebook groups, and answer some of the questions- Kira Hug:   Well, we get mail. Rob Marsh:   Well, email. Kira Hug:   Oh, you mean like mail questions. Rob Marsh:   Yes, yes. Questions in the mailbag. So we're going to answer a bunch of questions that we get asked a lot, starting with, when are you going to open the accelerator again? So Kira, when are we going to open the accelerator again? Kira Hug:   I feel like that's a really easy question to start, which is great, because I like easy. So we are going to open the accelerator again in the fall. We are currently running the program with an incredible group of copywriters and we're going to run it again starting September. So you'll hear about it probably starting in July but definitely in August. We're going to make some updates to the program. It's a program that we love and believe in, and we're always excited to improve it and make it better as the copywriting space changes so that it's valuable to all the copywriters who participate in it. Rob Marsh:   Yeah, I actually sat down this morning and started outlining some of the changes that I think we need to make, and I'm actually kind of excited about what this new iteration is going to look like, so it's all good. Kira Hug:   You're on the ball. We just talked- Rob Marsh:   I'm trying. Kira Hug:   ... about changes yesterday and you're already making notes. That's impressive. Rob Marsh:   I had some time. Kira Hug:   Okay, so let's start with ... I'm glad that you gave me the easy question. I'm going to give you a harder question. Rob, should you ever work for free? Should any of us ever work for free? This question comes up quite frequently in all of our groups. Rob Marsh:   Yeah, and I think it's actually a really good question because there are times when it's definitely not right to work for free and times when I think it is acceptable. So, there's a lot of pushback in the copywriting world about doing free projects or test projects, and sometimes I would agree with that. Sometimes it is not okay to work for free, especially if people are going to be using the work that you create for their clients, if they're charging for it, those kinds of things, you should definitely be paid for that. But occasionally there's an opportunity that will come along where you're asked to do a test project as part of an application process or if a client may say, "Hey, I don't have the budget. Can you do this for free?" In which case you might decide to do it, and I think that there are a couple of criteria that I would assign to that. First of all, does this free project, if it doesn't earn you money, does it lead to something else that is beneficial? So you and I, Kira, we talk sometimes about how there's more than one way to get paid, it's not always cash. It's not always money in the bank. So if a free project could lead to a testimonial, or to a case study, or to another paying project, if it introduces you to potential clients, if it is the starting point of a project with an agency, that kind of thing, then you might consider doing it. Maybe not always, but those things you can use to leverage in your business and sometimes, especially when you're starting out, testimonials, case studies, connections are worth more than a few $100 in the bank. So, in those cases you might consider working for free. If you've been doing this thing for a long time though, I think free work, you've got connections, you've got your processes down, you've got a few testimonials, whatever, at that point I think you really do need to stop doing free work and ask for money for the value that we create. What do you think? Disagree, agree? Kira Hug:   I disagree completely. Rob Marsh:   Yeah, I thought so. Kira Hug:   I'm just kidding. I've never done ... I mean, I'm sure I've done free work in my lifetime, but I have not done free copywriting projects for a client. I agree with you that sometimes we get paid in multiple ways that could be more valuable than a payment, than a cash payment, but I think as far as if you're doing free work, then at least you should be able to control it. Maybe you're building your portfolio and you're choosing a couple of clients and you're choosing dream clients and dream projects of companies that probably wouldn't hire you, but you're adding it to your portfolio and doing some really cool work that you could send over to them and possibly win them over as a client. I think the part I disagree with is that I would never feel comfortable hiring someone and not paying them anything, like a copywriter in that sense. So, I guess I question any client you would work with that's not paying you in some way. Is that a healthy relationship? I think even when I work with junior copywriters and do test projects I like to pay them something. It might be significantly less than a typical fee for a project because it's a test project and there are multiple people, and it's a different matter at that point. But if there was a client you really want to work for and they're like, "I'm not going to pay you for this." I just think, unless it is this tremendous portfolio piece and they've guaranteed they'll write you a testimonial, then I just would steer clear of that client. Rob Marsh:   Yeah. Again, I think it's never a hard yes or a hard no.