TCC Podcast #235: Finding the Real You with Jill Wise

For the 235th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we’re joined by Jill Wise. Jill is a brand and marketing strategist, conversion copywriter, and business coach. As much as she’s dedicated to her craft and her clients, she’s also driven to create an authentic online presence. Pushing through the noise and the “rules'' of what she’s supposed to do online, she’s been able to showcase who she truly is and attract clients who align with her same brand values. Don’t miss this episode all about being more YOU in a crowded space while serving your clients at the maximum level. In this episode, we dive deep into: •  Going from a side-hustle to full-on copywriter. •  How to break the rules the RIGHT way and feel great about it. •  Creating a safe space for clients and allowing open communication right from the discovery call. •  The step-by-step process of a white-glove experience and making sure your clients are supported every step of the way. •  Why an automated system can be a great addition to your business and enhance your workflow and respect your boundaries. •  3 tips to enhance productivity and getting your ideal schedule defined. •  How to shift mindset from freelancer to business owner and what it will do for your business. •  The question: Should you give your client a to do list? •  The truth about showing up online and finding your true voice •  The secret to building discipline—no, it’s not a trait you're born with •  The ins and out of solving problems and finding real solutions for clients •  When something doesn’t work… how to reframe, reevaluate, and get back out there •  Why you should add other skills to your repertoire •  How to properly evaluate competitors—mimic or do better? •  When you get the advice to “dumb yourself down…” run! Whether you’re a new freelance copywriter or an established business owner, you’ll gain new insights and ideas on how to project your own business forward. Click the play button below to listen, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Jill’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira:  Does this ring a bell for you? You see what everyone else in the copywriting world is doing. You hear what clients expect and you even get advice from a coach that you need to act just like everyone else to get the thing you want. The game's got rules and if you don't play by them, you'll stay on the bench. That's what Jill Wise, Think Tank mastermind member and our guest for the 235th episode of the Copywriter Club Podcast was told. Play nice, dumb things down, don't rock the boat, or you won't attract the clients you want. But something was off and recently, Jill decided to ignore that advice and be more true to who she is. And in this interview, she revealed her new brand transformation with us. Rob:  Before we share what Jill told us, this podcast episode is brought to you by the Copywriter Think Tank. That's our private mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to challenge each other, create new revenue streams in their business, receive one on two coaching from the two of us, and ultimately grow to six figures or more. If you've been looking for a dynamic mastermind to help you grow as a copywriter and as a business owner, visit copywriterthinktank.com to set up a short information session or email us at help@thecopywriterclub.com with questions. Kira:  The Copywriter Think Tank will help you figure out a lot of the same stuff we cover in this interview with Jill; things like client boundaries, creating better processes and figuring out what your brand stands for. Now, let's jump into our conversation with Jill Wise. Jill:  I graduated university and my husband is a few years older than me, we were dating at the time and he moved to Montreal and I did the thing, moved to be with him too. But I can't speak French and he can, and it's a French speaking city and you're not supposed to be able to work in most places unless you can speak French too. So I had to figure out how I was going to actually make money. Of course I had that Carrie Bradshaw vision that a lot of us have thinking that I was going to live in a cool city and have cool shoes and this cute boyfriend and get to write all these stories, but it didn't exactly work out that way because my first gig was writing 500 words for $25. And even though I was freelancing, I still had to get a job working in the kitchen of a vegan restaurant. And I was the head chef flipping falafels at the time. Obviously things got a lot better from there. We ended up leaving Montreal so that I could have an easier time working, and we moved out west to Calgary. That's where I found the editor who started giving me writing gigs for his branding agency. And after doing a few of these like landing pages and SEO blog posts and all that sort of thing, he said, "Hey, Jill, did you know that you're a copywriter?" That's when I Googled it and shortly after decided to go back to university to study marketing and public relations because I felt like I needed a little bit more than my English degree to feel confident going all in on this. Rob:  So, Jill, what did you think you were before you knew you were a copywriter? Jill:  Just a freelance writer, a starving freelance writer trying to figure it out. That was part-time and I was also bartending and serving the other part of the time while we were at West. Rob:  Okay, cool. Tell us a little bit more about that first project. How did you get it? 500 words, $25. Where did you go? How did you land it? What did you do to pitch or how did that actually come into your world? Jill:  I had been living in Montreal for the summer and I did not work. I had to finish up half credit in that time and I figured it would just be my time to take a break because I had a tendency to overwork myself, which I still do. So while I was in university, I was working like 30 hours in a bar bartending and had a full course load and all of that. So I wanted 18 months to just take a break and figure out what to do. So at the end of that time, when my money that I'd saved for myself was running out, I made a list of all of the publications that were English speaking in the Montreal area and I sent all of them an email asking them to let me work for them. One replied and said, "You can write about this." I think it was about a Comic-Con kind of thing or a Halloween kind of thing. Something would dress up, I had to write about it. I'd never been to anything like that before and after I sent it off, I was like, okay, now, how do they get paid? They told me to send me an invoice and I had to Google that too. So that's how I got the first one. And then they started sending me a few more. And from there I used that experience to pitch to a couple other gigs and ended up finding a decent one writing for the Yellow Pages, that was pretty cool. And it sort of just snowballed from there, went better one after another. Kira:  When you went back to school, I think you said you studied communication going back to school? Jill:  It was marketing and PR. Kira:  Okay, marketing and PR. What did you learn during that time studying marketing and PR that you feel like has been really useful as you've built your business more recently? Jill:  It was actually kind of cool because they had copywriting classes in the program that I took. So that's where I got a lot of the formal training on, I guess, the formulas that we were supposed to follow. There was a copy editing class. So my grammar is always on point now. So that's where I learned the basics of those and the professors were actually practicing in the real world. So we got a lot of knowledge from them too. So I'd say almost everything that I learned there was useful and everything else that I've done since then. Rob:  As you talk about the formulas that you learned as part of that process, do you have a favorite formula? Jill:  No, not really. I mean, I feel like they didn't teach us in the way that it's talked about online. It was slightly different. I have the copywriter's handbook and all of those sorts of things, but it wasn't like, "Oh, memorize this formula and then you do it." It was just the general way to approach copy because of course it's different learning from how we learn online versus a formal university setting. So I wouldn't say there's a specific formula that I follow all the time. I kind of don't really follow all of the rules. I don't know. I know that I do, but I just kind of go with what feels right when I'm writing copy, if that makes sense. And I've come up with ways that I want to do things as well. It sounds like I'm the worst copywriter ever, breaking all the rules. Kira:  You are the rule breaker copywriter. Let's just fast forward to where you are in your business today. There was clearly a lot that happened after the Yellow Pages gig to get you where you are, but what does your business look like today? What are you working on? What type of packages do you have? What are you excited about today? Jill:  I'm excited about a lot of things. Right now people usually work with me starting with their brand messaging and their brand strategy. So we nailed that down first, come up with their brand guide and then they usually move into website copy. But the way that I write websites isn't just to write pretty words. I write them to become actual lead generation tools for them to get more clients. So within those, we often end up talking about their pricing and their offers and their services guides and their proposals and how the lead is going to come from other channels onto their website and then onto their calendar. So yes, I write website copy,