Being Well with Forrest Hanson and Dr. Rick Hanson

Embracing Perfectionism with Katherine Morgan Schafler

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Aug 19, 2024

Katherine Morgan Schafler, a therapist and ex-Google mental health expert, dives into the double-edged sword of perfectionism. She unpacks how it can be both a superpower and a stumbling block, emphasizing the need for a positive shift in our self-criticism language. Katherine discusses the five types of perfectionists and challenges the notion that perfectionism is merely a defense against criticism. She advocates for self-compassion over self-punishment and explores how to keep perfectionism in check while pursuing meaningful goals.

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INSIGHT

Perfectionism's True Problem

Perfectionism itself isn't the problem; it's how we respond to it.
We either meet perfectionistic tendencies with punishment or compassion.

INSIGHT

Healthy vs. Unhealthy Perfectionism

Perfectionists possess a 'compulsion to bridge the gap' between reality and their ideals.
Healthy perfectionists see ideals as inspiration, not goals; unhealthy perfectionists conflate the two.

ADVICE

How and Why of Striving

Evaluate your perfectionism by asking: How and why am I striving?
Negative perfectionism involves harmful striving or seeking self-worth through achievements.

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Forrest explores how we can harness perfectionism’s strengths without getting captured by its vulnerabilities with therapist and author Katherine Morgan Schafler. They talk about perfectionism’s bad branding, and how our relationship with perfectionism can lead to it being either a superpower or a stumbling block. They discuss the different types of perfectionists, the limitations of defining perfectionism merely as a defense against criticism, and the importance of shifting our language around self-criticism. You’ll learn about the difference between power and control, why self-compassion beats self-punishment, and how to keep perfectionism in check while still reaching your goals.

About our Guest: Katherine is a psychotherapist, former on-site therapist at Google, and author of the recent book The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control: A Path to Peace and Power.

You can watch this episode on YouTube.

Key Topics:

0:00: Introduction

1:35: Defining perfectionism

6:00: Ideals, identity, and asking yourself how and why you’re striving

12:40: The five types of perfectionists

21:55: Why defining perfectionism as a ‘defense against criticism’ falls short

28:20: Changing our vocabulary around self-criticism

34:00: Why self-punishment doesn’t work

38:10: The difference between power and control

44:40: Splitting vs. scaling, and reaching out for connection

49:10: When perfectionistic tendencies invade our relationships

54:10: The intention that drives real goals, and finding your metric for measuring success

1:07:10: Recap

I am now writing on Substack, check out my work there.

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