Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career

The full-stack PM | Anuj Rathi (Swiggy, Jupiter Money, Flipkart)

Dec 7, 2023

Anuj Rathi, Chief Product and Marketing Officer at Jupiter Money, is a prominent product leader with a wealth of experience from Swiggy, Snapdeal, and Flipkart. He delves into the evolution of product management in India, emphasizing a shift towards user-centric approaches. Anuj shares his 4BB framework for prioritizing product strategy and highlights the importance of empathy in understanding user experiences. He also discusses why OKRs may not work effectively in marketplaces and offers essential skills for successful product management.

01:12:29

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Anuj Rathi

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Quick takeaways

Using the Four BB framework helps prioritize product strategy and allocate focus points across different aspects of a product.

The Show, Don't Tell approach assists product managers in visually demonstrating the user journey and product experience to effectively prioritize and communicate with stakeholders.

The working backwards process, popularized by Amazon, enables product managers to align teams, prioritize initiatives, and ensure customer-centric decision making.

Deep dives

The Four BB Framework for Product Strategy

The Four BB framework is a way to prioritize product strategy and allocate focus points across four buckets: Brilliant Basics, Bread and Butter, Big Bets, and Breaking Bad. Brilliant Basics refers to essential tech debt and hygiene factors that need attention. Bread and Butter focuses on optimizing the existing product and features. Big Bets involve taking calculated risks and making significant innovations. Breaking Bad is about redefining the company's identity or pivoting to something new. By allocating focus points across these buckets, product managers can make strategic decisions and prioritize their efforts accordingly.

Balancing Basics, Optimizing Existing Products, and Pursuing Big Bets in Business Transformation

01:23

Users on modern internet consumers

00:32

Utilizing a Press Release Approach for Decision Making and Alliances

01:20

Analyzing capability, motivation, and setup issues in leadership

01:21

Intro

5min

The Evolution of Product Management in India

9min

Empathy in User-Centric Product Management

19min

Visual Strategies in Product Management

5min

Enhancing Organizational Alignment Through Comprehensive Documentation

3min

Mastering Product Strategy with the 4BB Framework

23min

Envisioning Success Through Strategy

5min

Exploring the Secret Soiree: A Networking Experience for Entrepreneurs

3min

Anuj Rathi is the Chief Product and Marketing Officer at Jupiter Money, where he leads product management, marketing, design, growth, and analytics. Before Jupiter Money, Anuj served as the Senior Vice President of Revenue and Growth at Swiggy, VP of Product at SnapDeal, a Senior PM at Walmart Labs and the first-ever PM at Flipkart. He’s also one of the most beloved and respected product leaders in India. In this episode, we discuss:

• How product management is different in India

• How to rethink your approach to new users

• How Anuj operationalizes the “working backwards” framework

• Why Anuj thinks PMs should be more full-stack than they are

• How to use Anuj’s “4BB” framework to get better at product strategy and prioritization

• Advice on developing innovative roadmap ideas

• The three essential skills of a successful PM

• Three reasons why leadership fails

• Why OKRs don’t work in marketplaces

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Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-full-stack-pm-anuj-rathi-swiggy

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Where to find Anuj Rathi:

• X: https://twitter.com/anujrathi

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anujrathi1

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Anuj’s background

(04:28) How product differs in India

(08:34) When modern product thinking started to gain traction in India

(14:01) How Anuj thinks about new-user experiences

(15:07) Scott Belsky’s “lazy, vain, and selfish” framework

(19:59) Why PMs must understand category consumers

(22:30) Anuj’s philosophy on the PM job

(23:59) How Anuj applies the working-backwards framework

(28:36) The importance of FAQs

(30:10) The full-stack PM mindset

(33:06) Anuj’s “show don’t tell” framework

(36:19) How to use the show-don’t-tell framework

(39:14) The impact of using this framework

(41:27) Anuj’s “4BB framework” for product strategy

(48:59) Contrarian corner

(50:49) Anuj’s “framework of 3” for great PMs

(52:34) How to develop grit and influence

(54:00) Three reasons why leaders fail

(56:21) AI corner

(57:51) Lessons from building a successful marketplace

(1:02:19) How to balance and maintain stability on all sides of a marketplace

(1:07:48) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• MakeMyTrip: https://www.makemytrip.com/

• Shaadi.com: https://www.shaadi.com/

• Bharat Matrimony: https://www.bharatmatrimony.com/

• Flipkart: https://www.flipkart.com/

• Ola: https://www.olacabs.com/mobile

• Swiggy: https://www.swiggy.com/

• Jio: https://www.jio.com/

• UPI: http://cashlessindia.gov.in/upi.html

• The First 15 Seconds by Scott Belsky: https://medium.com/positiveslope/the-first-15-seconds-9590d7dabc

• Jupiter: https://jupiter.money/

• How to get better at influence: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-get-better-at-influence#

• Working Backwards: https://www.workingbackwards.com/

• Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World: https://www.amazon.com/Range-Generalists-Triumph-Specialized-World/dp/0735214484

• In Search of Greatness on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Search-Greatness-Wayne-Gretzky/dp/B07P5X99P5

• Team Topologies: Organizing Business and Technology Teams for Fast Flow: https://www.amazon.com/Team-Topologies-Organizing-Business-Technology/dp/1942788819

• Conway’s Law: https://www.atlassian.com/blog/teamwork/what-is-conways-law-acmi

• Lessons from scaling Spotify: The science of product, taking risky bets, and how AI is already impacting the future of music | Gustav Söderström (Co-President, CPO, and CTO at Spotify):

https://www.lennyspodcast.com/lessons-from-scaling-spotify-the-science-of-product-taking-risky-bets-and-how-ai-is-already-impac/

• Taobao: https://world.taobao.com/

• Alibaba: https://offer.alibaba.com/

• Working Backwards: https://www.amazon.com/Working-Backwards-PB/dp/1529033845

• How Brands Grow: What Marketers Don't Know: https://www.amazon.com/How-Brands-Grow-What-Marketers/dp/0195573560

• The Luxury Strategy: Break the Rules of Marketing to Build Luxury Brands: https://www.amazon.com/Luxury-Strategy-Break-Marketing-Brands/dp/0749464917

• The Office on Peacock: https://www.peacocktv.com/stream-tv/the-office

• Rise: https://www.risescience.com/

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.