Changing Minds with Owen Fitzpatrick

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How to Craft Messages People Remember and Repeat

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Apr 7, 2025

Guest

Tamsen Webster

In this engaging discussion, Tamsen Webster, author of "Find Your Red Thread" and founder of the Message Design Institute, shares her expertise on crafting memorable messages. She delves into the importance of storytelling, revealing the five elements of the Red Thread framework that leaders use to drive action. Tamsen highlights how truth can be more impactful than mere facts, the role of empathy in communication, and techniques for tailoring messages to various audiences. Her insights are perfect for anyone looking to connect and inspire.

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insights

INSIGHT

Reverse Ideas Into Their Story

The Red Thread reverses any idea into the story you told yourself about it.
Packaging an idea as that story makes it instantly more understandable and persuasive.

insights

INSIGHT

Use Curiosity Gaps To Drive Engagement

Open questions create a drive state by creating a gap listeners want to close.
Use those curiosity gaps repeatedly to secure understanding and permission to move forward.

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ADVICE

Demonstrate How Your Idea Differs

Show how your idea is fundamentally different from what people currently do.
Explain that contrast gently to avoid triggering reactance or making listeners feel attacked.

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

The Red Thread of Storytelling

02:42 • 22min

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Navigating Truth in a Polarized World

24:22 • 31min

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The Art of Tailored Communication

55:35 • 17min

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Balancing Emotion and Logic

01:12:22 • 5min

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Crafting Effective Messages for Sustainable Change

01:17:47 • 2min

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Quickfire Insights and a Farewell

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Never Split the Difference

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Chris Voss

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This book, written by former FBI hostage negotiator Chris Voss and co-author Tahl Raz, provides a masterclass in influencing others through negotiation. It distills the Voss method, revealing skills such as establishing rapport, creating trust with tactical empathy, and transforming conflict into collaboration. The book is filled with real-life examples from Voss's career, illustrating how these techniques can be applied in both professional and personal life to achieve goals and defuse potential crises.

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How Minds Change

The Surprising Science of Belief, Opinion, and Persuasion

David McRaney

In 'How Minds Change,' David McRaney delves into the latest research from psychologists and neuroscientists to explain why people believe what they do and how those beliefs can change. The book examines various methods such as deep canvassing and social epistemology, and features stories of individuals who have dramatically changed their minds, including a former 9/11 conspiracy theorist and a member of the Westboro Baptist Church. McRaney emphasizes the importance of empathetic conversations over debates and provides practical advice on how to influence others by focusing on their personal experiences rather than presenting facts alone.

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On Being Certain

Believing You Are Right Even When You're Not

Robert A. Burton, M.D.

In 'On Being Certain', neurologist Robert Burton challenges the notion that certainty is a product of reason. He argues that certainty is a mental sensation stemming from primitive areas of the brain, independent of conscious reflection and reasoning. The book explores the relationship between thoughts and actual knowledge, using neuroscience and anecdotes to challenge traditional views on certainty and knowledge.

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Against Empathy

The Case for Rational Compassion

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In 'Against Empathy: The Case for Rational Compassion,' Paul Bloom challenges the conventional wisdom that empathy is a moral guide. He argues that empathy, defined as feeling what others feel, is a capricious and irrational emotion that can lead to poor decision-making and even cruelty. Bloom contends that empathy distorts our judgment in various aspects of life, from philanthropy and justice to medical care and education. He advocates for a more distanced compassion based on rational, deliberative reasoning and a utilitarian approach to moral decisions. The book is grounded in scientific findings and explores the limitations and biases of empathy, suggesting that clearer, fairer, and more moral decisions can be made without relying on it.

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The ABC Murders

Agatha Christie

In *The ABC Murders*, Agatha Christie crafts a thrilling mystery where a serial killer is targeting victims with alliterative names in alphabetical order. Hercule Poirot must unravel the complex web of clues and motives to uncover the true identity of the killer. The novel explores themes of deception and psychological manipulation, showcasing Christie's mastery of the genre.

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The art of thinking clearly

Rolf Dobelli

In this book, Rolf Dobelli examines the faulty reasoning that leads to repeated mistakes by individuals, businesses, and nations. It is a comprehensive guide to recognizing and avoiding cognitive biases, presented in 99 short chapters. The book does not offer a recipe for happiness but rather a well-considered treatise on avoiding self-induced unhappiness through better decision-making. It uses simple, real-world examples to illustrate common errors of judgment and provides practical advice on how to avoid them.

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Find Your Red Thread

Make Your Big Ideas Irresistible

Tamsen Webster

This book by Tamsen Webster provides a step-by-step process to make big ideas compelling and actionable. It introduces the concept of the 'Red Thread,' which is the throughline that connects an idea to the audience's problems and solutions, making it tangible and actionable. The book helps readers build a story around their idea using elements such as Goal, Problem, Truth, Change, and Action. This approach is designed to guide audiences through the maze of ideas and options, inspiring them to take action. Webster draws from her extensive experience in marketing, TEDx events, and working with major organizations to provide practical strategies for delivering memorable presentations, keynotes, marketing campaigns, and more.

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This book is a hands-on, step-by-step guide that builds on the concepts introduced in Simon Sinek's 'Start With Why'. It provides detailed exercises, illustrations, and action steps to help readers find their 'WHY', which is the core reason behind their actions and decisions. The book aims to inspire readers to wake up with purpose, feel safe at work, and return home fulfilled. It addresses various concerns such as how to apply the 'WHY' concept to careers, teams, companies, or nonprofits, and offers strategies for individuals and teams to discover their most powerful reasons for getting up in the morning and starting the workday.

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Say What They Can't Unhear

The 9 Principles of Lasting Change

Tamsen Webster

This book by Tamsen Webster focuses on creating lasting change in organizations, markets, and individual lives. It introduces nine 'persuasion proverbs' that outline the behavioral, cognitive, and psychological principles necessary for sustained action. Webster challenges conventional change management methods and offers a powerful alternative to standard tactics of influence and persuasion. The book is designed to help leaders transform lukewarm prospects into passionate believers by aligning their approach with the forces that sustain change, rather than relying on manipulative or short-term strategies.

In this episode of Changing Minds, I’m joined by the incredible Tamsen Webster, author of Find Your Red Thread, to dive deep into the psychology and structure of messages that truly stick. We really nerd out here, which was a lot of fun.

We explore why some ideas catch fire and others fade, how story shapes belief, and what it really takes to make your message repeatable. Tamsen shares her Red Thread framework, used by leaders, marketers, and changemakers to build powerful narratives that drive action.

If you’ve ever struggled to explain your idea, connect with your audience, or get people to care, this conversation is for you.

We unpack:

The five elements of the Red Thread
Why truth is more powerful than fact
How to ask questions that hook attention
The role of empathy and respect in persuasive communication

Tune in to learn how to craft ideas that people not only understand but believe in, share, and act on.