Unhealthy Ways We Seek Validation As Leaders | An Interview with Tony Overbay

Jan 29, 2025

Tony Overbay, a licensed marriage and family therapist and mental health podcaster, dives into the unhealthy ways leaders seek validation. He discusses the pitfalls of codependency and the 'nice guy syndrome,' particularly in faith-based communities. The conversation highlights the need for self-acceptance and the dangers of external validation. Overbay emphasizes aligning actions with personal values and understanding one's unique journey to foster authentic leadership. Personal anecdotes add a light touch, making the insights relatable and thought-provoking.

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Intro

00:00 • 3min

Exploring Codependency and Leadership Challenges

03:00 • 3min

Navigating Personal and Professional Triumphs in Therapy and Recovery

06:10 • 3min

Navigating Codependency and Leadership

09:08 • 20min

Navigating Leadership and Personal Values

28:42 • 9min

Values Over Goals: A New Approach to Leadership

37:55 • 14min

The Validation Trap in Leadership

51:31 • 6min

Navigating Personal Values

57:32 • 6min

Navigating Spiritual Leadership

01:03:39 • 16min

Codependent no more

Melody Beattie

In 'Codependent No More,' Melody Beattie provides a compassionate and insightful look into codependency, the concept of losing oneself in the name of helping another. The book helps readers understand that they are powerless to change anyone but themselves and that caring for the self is where healing begins. With instructive life stories, personal reflections, exercises, and self-tests, it offers a clear and achievable path to freedom and a lifetime of healing, hope, and happiness. The book is particularly relevant for those who have lost sight of their own lives while tending to a loved one’s self-destructive behavior[1][3][5].

No More Mr. Nice Guy

A Proven Plan for Getting What You Want in Love, Sex and Life

Robert Glover

In 'No More Mr. Nice Guy', Dr. Robert Glover provides a roadmap for men to break free from the thought patterns and behaviors associated with 'Nice Guy Syndrome'. The book helps men understand how their childhood experiences and societal pressures can lead to chronic people-pleasing, passive-aggression, and dishonesty. Glover offers practical advice and exercises to help men reclaim their personal power, set boundaries, handle conflict, and develop satisfying relationships. The book emphasizes the importance of self-acceptance, authenticity, and prioritizing one's own needs to achieve success in various aspects of life.

The confidence game

Why We Fall for It . . . Every Time

Maria Konnikova

In 'The Confidence Game', Maria Konnikova delves into the world of con artists, examining why these individuals are successful and why people consistently fall for their schemes. The book covers a range of cons, from multimillion-dollar Ponzi schemes to small-time frauds, using scientific, dramatic, and psychological perspectives. Konnikova explains how con artists exploit human psychology, creating trust, empathy, and rapport to manipulate their victims. She also discusses the common traits of con artists, such as a Machiavellian attitude, nonchalance, and narcissism, and how these traits often lead to their downfall. The book highlights how our own desires and need to believe can make us complicit in our own deception, and it provides insights into the psychology behind why we fall for scams and how our sense of truth can be manipulated.

The Liberated Mind

How to Pivot Your Brain from Anxiety to Freedom

Steven C. Hayes

Steven Hayes' "The Liberated Mind" offers a comprehensive guide to Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT). It explores the nature of psychological suffering and introduces practical techniques to manage difficult emotions and thoughts. The book emphasizes the importance of accepting inner experiences rather than fighting them, and it guides readers toward living a more values-driven life. Hayes draws on his extensive clinical experience to illustrate ACT principles and provide actionable strategies for personal growth. The book is widely regarded as a seminal work in the field of ACT and has helped countless individuals improve their mental well-being.

The happiness trap

Russ Harris

In 'The Happiness Trap', Dr. Russ Harris presents the insights and techniques of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) to help readers escape the epidemic of stress, anxiety, and depression. The book focuses on accepting unhelpful thoughts rather than trying to control them, and it emphasizes the importance of clarifying values and developing mindfulness. It provides practical tools for reducing stress and worry, handling painful thoughts and feelings, breaking self-defeating habits, overcoming insecurity and self-doubt, and building better relationships and a fulfilling life[1][2][5].

How to Fail at Almost Everything and Still Win Big

Kind of the Story of My Life

Scott Adams

In 'How to Fail at Almost Everything and Still Win Big,' Scott Adams shares his personal story of numerous failures and how he transformed them into lasting successes. Adams challenges conventional career advice by advocating for systems over goals, emphasizing the importance of personal energy, and highlighting how a combination of mediocre skills can be surprisingly valuable. He recounts his experiences in the corporate world, his inventions, investments, and other ventures, offering practical tips such as prioritizing creative work, managing attitudes, and using affirmations. The book is filled with humor and valuable insights into human psychology and the role of luck in achieving success.

He's a Porn Addict... Now What?

Joshua Shea

Tony Overbay

Tony Overbay and Joshua Shea's "He's a Porn Addict, Now What?" offers a unique perspective on pornography addiction, combining the expertise of a therapist with the lived experience of a former addict. The book addresses common questions and concerns surrounding pornography addiction, providing practical advice and support for individuals and couples. It explores the impact of pornography addiction on relationships, self-esteem, and spiritual well-being. The authors offer a compassionate and understanding approach, emphasizing the importance of recovery and healing. The book provides a roadmap for navigating the challenges of addiction and building healthier, more fulfilling lives.

This is a rebroadcast. The episode originally ran in February 2020. Tony Overbay is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, a Certified Mindful Habit Coach, and the host of two award-winning mental health podcasts, “The Virtual Couch” and “Waking Up to Narcissism.” Tony also co-hosts “Love, ADHD” with author Julie Lee, where they share their experiences of receiving ADHD diagnosis as adults, and Tony co-hosts two additional podcasts, “The Mind, The Mirror, and Me,” with his daughter Mackie, and “Murder on the Couch,” a true-crime meets therapy podcast with his daughter Sydney. Tony, Mackie, and Sydney offer live relationship advice weekly on TikTok, YouTube, and Instagram. He also serves on the Leading Saints Board of Therapists. Tony co-authored He’s A Porn Addict, Now What? An Expert and a Former Addict Answer Your Questions and works with individuals and couples on issues such as addiction, betrayal, navigating faith journeys, and people “waking up” to their own emotional immaturity/narcissistic traits and tendencies. He has online courses for couples communication and parenting, a soon-to-be-released course on navigating faith journeys, and is the creator of The Path Back, an online, faith-based pornography recovery program. You can find out more about any of Tony’s courses at https://tonyoverbay.com Tony is a father of four children and has been married to his high school sweetheart, Wendy, for 34 years. Before becoming a therapist, he spent a decade as a software executive and wrote a weekly humor column in a regional newspaper for nearly eight years. Tony is an avid runner, having completed over 100 marathons and ultramarathons, including a dozen races of 100 miles or more. Links TonyOverbay.com He's a Porn Addict...Now What?: An Expert and a Former Addict Answer Your Questions Clarifying Values PDF, from The Confidence Gap by Russ Harris Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Transcript coming soon Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights This episode delves into the concept of codependency within the context of Latter-day Saint culture, where it often manifests as the "nice guy syndrome." Kurt shares his personal experiences as a bishop, highlighting how his own struggles with codependency and the pressure to maintain a perfect image affected his leadership. Tony defines codependency as an excessive emotional reliance on others for self-worth, often leading individuals to prioritize others' needs over their own. The conversation emphasizes the importance of acceptance and commitment therapy (ACT), which encourages individuals to accept their feelings and thoughts rather than avoid them. By focusing on personal values rather than identity, leaders can navigate their roles more effectively without succumbing to shame or self-doubt. The episode also touches on the significance of being present and acting according to one's values, rather than getting caught up in the pressures of perfectionism. 4:01 - Understanding Codependency 5:04 - The Nice Guy Syndrome 5:50 - Personal Struggles with Codependency 6:39 - Tony Overbay's Background 8:09 - The Role of External Validation 9:25 - Defining Codependency 10:52 - Codependency in Religious Contexts 11:42 - The Impact of Codependency on Self-Worth 13:00 - The Role of the Partner in Addiction Recovery 14:08 - The Role of External Validation 14:14 - The Importance of Individual Recovery 15:04 - The Connection Between Trauma and Codependency 16:22 - Addressing Codependency in Leadership 19:10 - Acceptance and Commitment Therapy Overview 20:49 - The Importance of Acceptance 22:40 - The Confidence Gap 24:18 - Values vs. Identity in Leadership 31:50 - The Bishop Monson Dynamic 36:36 - Systems vs. Goals in Personal Development 42:34 - Embracing Values in Leadership 50:32 - The Role of External Validation 01:02:47 - Truth, Beauty, and Goodness The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the to...