
Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie (patio11)
We live in a world where our civilization and daily lives depend upon institutions, infrastructure, and technological substrates that are _complicated_ but not _unknowable_. Join Patrick McKenzie (patio11) as he discusses how decisions, technology, culture, and incentives shape our finance, technology, government, and more, with the people who built (and build) those Complex Systems.
Latest episodes

23 snips
Jan 16, 2025 • 1h 1min
Debanking explained
Delve into the intricate world of debanking and its complex implications beyond crypto narratives. Discover how Operation Chokepoint's tactics have shaped banking access issues, especially for underserved groups. Examine the controversial fall of Silvergate Bank and the scrutiny it faced amid regulatory challenges. Unearth how banking's relationship with cryptocurrency creates barriers for legitimate businesses. This engaging conversation lays bare the connections between political agendas and financial infrastructure.

34 snips
Jan 9, 2025 • 1h 4min
Retrospective on 2024, with Sammy Cottrell
Sammy Cottrell, the executive assistant and producer for Complex Systems, joins the discussion to delve into the podcast's behind-the-scenes magic. They discuss the vital role of high-quality transcripts in making content accessible and the challenges of incorporating AI while maintaining unique speaker styles. The conversation also touches on guest dynamics, the influence of self-promotion on popularity, and the complexities of choosing genuine experts over high-profile figures. Finally, they explore the future of content creation in an AI-driven world.

45 snips
Jan 2, 2025 • 1h 20min
Seeing like an outsider, with Yatharth
A graduate student interviews a software engineer about the intricacies of cultural codes and institutional systems. They share personal stories about navigating bureaucracy and credit card debt, revealing the evolution of their financial literacy. The discussion touches on parenting multicultural children and the challenges of emotional availability. Insights into the transformative role of AI in storytelling and communication unfold, alongside reflections on global financial systems like India's Unified Payments Interface, highlighting the value of cross-cultural knowledge.

62 snips
Dec 19, 2024 • 1h 13min
The future of pandemic preparedness, with Joshua Morrison
Joshua Morrison, CEO of 1Day Sooner and advocate for scientific advances in infectious disease response, joins the conversation. He shares insights on the successes and failures of Operation Warp Speed in vaccine development. Morrison highlights the need for innovative clean air technologies to improve pandemic preparedness and discusses the importance of effective communication and trust in public health. The conversation also touches on leveraging past experiences to enhance regulatory frameworks for rapid response to future pandemics.

44 snips
Dec 12, 2024 • 1h 10min
How we tax property, with Lars Doucet
Lars Doucet, author of "Land is a Big Deal" and a property tax expert, joins the conversation to unravel the complexities of property assessment. He explains how cities value properties and the political dynamics behind tax rates. The discussion covers the challenges of maintaining equity in assessments, especially with discrepancies between neighbors. Doucet shares insights on how technological tools like GIS are reshaping the landscape of property valuation and the potential benefits of predictive analytics in creating fair tax policies.

35 snips
Dec 5, 2024 • 49min
Fraud levels are a policy choice
Patrick McKenzie dives into the intriguing balance between fraud prevention and customer experience. He examines how businesses and governments accept some level of fraud as a cost of doing business, using examples from payment systems and pandemic policies. The discussion highlights the ethical dilemmas in retail security and the complexities of navigating fraud in government benefit programs. Listeners will discover why reducing fraud to zero could stifle legitimate commerce and how different sectors calibrate their tolerance for fraud based on their unique challenges.

12 snips
Nov 21, 2024 • 55min
AI, poker, and mind games, with Max Chiswick
Max Chiswick, a former professional poker player and AI educator, discusses the fascinating intersection of poker and decision-making. He highlights how the online poker boom provided rich data sets for studying human choices. The conversation delves into how poker functions as a testing ground for AI while revealing the ethical dilemmas within both poker and AI development. Additionally, Max shares insights into the evolution of AI in the game, enhancing strategies and teaching through innovative online tools.

32 snips
Nov 14, 2024 • 1h 43min
Boom, busts, and long term progress with Byrne Hobart
Byrne Hobart, author of "Boom: Bubbles and the End of Stagnation," dives into the interplay between economic bubbles and innovation. He discusses how irrational market enthusiasm, like the 1990s fiber optic boom, can lead to technological advancements that benefit society long-term. The conversation highlights historical examples, from Bell Labs to today's AI investments and energy infrastructure, illustrating how even painful market crashes can drive genuine progress. Byrne reflects on the cyclical nature of tech and finance, revealing hidden patterns of innovation amid speculation.

13 snips
Nov 7, 2024 • 37min
How money moves, with Erik Torenberg
Erik Torenberg, founder of Turpentine and an expert in banking systems, joins the discussion on the complexities of money movement. They explore how banks use correspondent accounts and clearinghouses to facilitate transactions. The conversation shifts from the historical gold standard to the modern implications of stablecoins. Erik explains the different models of stablecoins, their potential for revolutionizing finance, and the challenges of regulation and compliance in the evolving financial landscape.

16 snips
Oct 31, 2024 • 1h 27min
From molecule to medicine, with Ross Rheingans-Yoo
In this discussion, Ross Rheingans-Yoo, an expert in drug development, delves into the complexities of drug approval processes, revealing systemic inefficiencies and the evolving landscape of clinical trials. He reflects on historical events like the thalidomide crisis and how they shaped FDA policy, while also highlighting the impact of the AIDS epidemic and COVID-19 on accelerated approvals. Ross shares his innovative work in rescuing abandoned drugs and emphasizes the need for integrating technology into medicine to enhance patient care and streamline drug development.