
Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie (patio11)
We live in a world where our civilization and daily lives depend upon institutions, infrastructure, and technological substrates that are _complicated_ but not _unknowable_. Join Patrick McKenzie (patio11) as he discusses how decisions, technology, culture, and incentives shape our finance, technology, government, and more, with the people who built (and build) those Complex Systems.
Latest episodes

67 snips
Mar 27, 2025 • 1h 7min
No, poor people aren’t funding your credit card rewards
The podcast dismantles the myth that low-income individuals fund credit card rewards for the wealthy. It highlights that interchange fees, not interest charges, primarily support these rewards. The discussion reveals that rich consumers spend more, ultimately benefiting from the system. The hosts delve into the competitive strategies banks use to attract and retain cardholders and explain how different financial profiles influence user behavior and credit card product design. The reality of credit card rewards is far more complex than it seems.

114 snips
Mar 20, 2025 • 1h 31min
Points, profits, and packed planes, with Gary Leff
In this engaging discussion, Gary Leff, author of "View from the Wing" and a leading voice in airline economics, delves into the intricacies of airline loyalty programs. He reveals how these programs often generate more value than the airlines themselves and explains the economic principles behind their sometimes irrational policies. The conversation also touches on tax implications for business travel, the evolution of loyalty strategies, and the competitive dynamics between airlines and credit card companies, making for a captivating exploration of the airline industry's complex landscape.

58 snips
Mar 13, 2025 • 1h 17min
Tax the dirt, with Lars Doucet & Greg Miller
Lars Doucet and Greg Miller, co-founders of the Center for Land Economics, dive into innovative solutions for property taxation. They discuss how taxing land instead of buildings can encourage equitable development. The duo critiques California's Proposition 13 and its effects on housing affordability. They advocate for modern assessment practices and the use of AI in property appraisals, highlighting the potential for technology to enhance fairness. Plus, they share strategies for citizens to engage with local tax assessments and promote change.

19 snips
Mar 6, 2025 • 41min
A tale of two Americas in one $50K cash withdrawal
Explore the fascinating world of banking procedures through the lens of a $50,000 cash withdrawal that turned into a scam. Delve into the protocols banks follow and how they protect customers while addressing operational challenges. The discussion also reveals biases based on personal appearance and critiques journalistic integrity in financial fraud reporting. With an emphasis on financial literacy, the investigation uncovers the importance of proper documentation and the complexities involved in navigating such large transactions.

85 snips
Feb 27, 2025 • 1h 14min
AI, data centers, and power economics, with Azeem Azhar
Azeem Azhar, writer of the Exponential View newsletter, dives into the transformational impact of AI on our energy infrastructure. He discusses the massive data center buildout and the historical parallels with past infrastructure investments. Topics include the evolution of computing, the complexities of data center cooling, and the future of energy with innovations in solar and nuclear power. Azeem emphasizes the urgent need to rethink our understanding of computing and energy systems to adapt to these rapid changes.

6 snips
Feb 20, 2025 • 42min
You can’t retract the facts
A bank CEO's contentious request for a retraction sparks a dive into the hotbed of debanking within cryptocurrency. The host emphasizes the critical importance of editorial independence and the high bar for retracting narratives. Tensions rise as the complexities of traditional banking and emerging crypto landscapes collide. Navigating the challenges of compliance and the stigma faced by crypto firms is examined, revealing the nuances behind banking relationships and regulatory pressures. Ultimately, the blend of skepticism and optimism in the crypto world is laid bare.

95 snips
Feb 13, 2025 • 1h 27min
Stablecoins and shenanigans, with Zeke Faux
Delve into the murky waters of stablecoins as Zeke Faux reveals Tether's dubious history and the implications of the forthcoming GENIUS Act. The discussion highlights Tether's struggles with transparency and trust, drawing intriguing parallels to major players in crypto. Explore the challenges of financial privacy versus accountability in a landscape rife with scams. The narrative weaves personal anecdotes that bring to life the complexities and ethical dilemmas of cryptocurrency, while underscoring the urgent need for regulation in this rapidly evolving sector.

57 snips
Feb 6, 2025 • 1h 14min
Power plays: grid economics and engineering, with Travis Dauwalter
Travis Dauwalter, an energy enthusiast and PhD, delves into the intricacies of the US electrical grid. He explains how this complex system maintains a real-time supply-demand balance and explores the challenges of integrating renewable energy. The discussion highlights why there are three interconnected grids in America and the impact of seasonal energy demand. Travis also touches on the economics of power generation, including the evolving role of data centers in energy markets and the unique dynamics of industries like cryptocurrency mining.

5 snips
Jan 30, 2025 • 43min
The landmines buried in the fine print of Chicago’s new casino deal
Diving into Chicago's controversial casino deal, the discussion reveals the entangled web of local politics, economic grievances, and the unique challenges of investing in such a venture. Concerns about minority ownership and historical discrimination are scrutinized, highlighting the intersection of civil rights and investment opportunities. The complexities of corporate structures and profit distribution leave potential investors wary. With intriguing anecdotes, the conversation further navigates financial pitfalls and tax implications, shedding light on a gamble that's far from straightforward.

12 snips
Jan 23, 2025 • 1h 10min
The banking crisis, two years later
The conversation dives into the real dynamics of the recent banking crisis, highlighting that 22 banks faced significant deposit outflows, mostly driven by institutional players. It challenges the traditional narratives around bank runs, emphasizing the often unseen shifts between banks rather than outright withdrawals. The impact of rising interest rates on stability is explored, alongside critiques of government communications and public trust in financial narratives. This insightful analysis sheds light on the complexities of modern banking systems.