2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

David asks Blair some awkward questions to get inside his head about his successful book, The Win Without Pitching Manifesto.

Most of us haven’t sold one firm that we’ve owned, and those principals who have formerly sold their firm aren’t always...ahem...telling the truth.

In a nod to the Walt Whitman line, Blair believes successful sales people - as well as agency principals - often need to present themselves as different personalities in different situations. And David believes sales trainers are actually therapists.

As we’ve seen independent creative marketing and digital firms experience rapid growth over this past year, David offers five factors that principals should consider in order to avoid growing for the wrong reasons and/or mismanaging that growth.

Exploring the nuances of saying 'no' can be revolutionary for businesses. It emphasizes the importance of boundaries and how it fosters genuine client relationships. Discover the psychological dynamics at play during sales interactions, advocating for pressure-free conversations. Learn why timing is crucial in rejections and how inviting 'no' can actually enhance communication. The discussion highlights how effectively saying 'no' can enrich credibility and create space for growth, challenging creatives to balance enthusiasm with restraint.

When people from other industries learn about what goes on inside your firm, are they awe-struck in a good or bad way? Blair and David come up with a list of things that are unique to the creative firm biz and how they’ve seen outsiders react to them.

Blair shares an overview of all the communication tools creative firms should be using throughout the sales process.

David and Blair discuss what the four performance bands are, eleven critical factors that keep firms stuck at the lower performance bands, and what firms can do to move into a higher band.

David is in a cynical mood and takes turns with Blair sharing clichés they hear their clients use to describe their business.

Blair stops to think about what "agency" actually means, and if it's the right term to describe firms in the creative services space.