The Modern People Leader: Forward-Thinking HR

Jessica Zwaan joins MPL Build to show HR leaders how to craft business cases that CEOs actually approve, using BLUF, the So What test, and clear links to revenue and savings. We walk through conservative projections, objection handling, and a live role-play on adopting a performance platform in today’s fiscally skeptical environment.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Talk to the team at Ethena.🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.MPL Links:🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (05:19) Jessica’s hierarchy: make money, save money, then time(08:45) Jessica’s shift from words to numbers and data(12:20) Tying HR work to revenue in practice(13:52) Choosing revenue vs savings and building the argument(15:42) “I cracked it” moment: McCann Worldgroup restructuring win(19:16) The “So What” Test explained and how to run it(21:57) Anticipating objections inside the deck(24:20) Role-play setup: $50k performance platform after HR Tech(25:32) Start with the problem: talent density and revenue leakage(26:08) Connecting performance signals to revenue and savings(28:31) From messy data to leading indicators leaders can use(30:23) Pitch format preferences(31:12) BLUF: Bottom line up front(32:39) Estimating impact and why to lean conservative(34:30) Standing behind numbers with board scrutiny(36:10) Is budget still tight and what fiscal skepticism means(37:43) Why rigor matters in an AI-saturated vendor landscape---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Kim Minnick, Founder of Code Traveller HR, is a seasoned expert in performance management and modern HR practices. She discusses why traditional performance reviews often miss the mark and emphasizes the need for continuous feedback. Kim advocates for decoupling performance from compensation, introducing creative, non-monetary rewards that align with company values. She also highlights the importance of transparency in compensation and offers insights on allowing employees to choose their rewards, fostering engagement and trust within organizations.

This episode of The Modern People Leader dives into the realities of leading through constant change, featuring guests Mita Mallick, Shelby Garrison, and Kelly Lohr. We discussed how HR leaders can navigate layoffs with transparency and humanity, the importance of supporting both exiting and remaining employees, and how to build resilience and adaptability into workplace culture.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Get in contact with the Career Sandwich team.🔗 Request a demo of Workleap.🔗 Talk to the team at Ethena.MPL Links:🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (07:13) Why Layoffs Feel Like a New Normal(09:25) Shelby on the Disconnect Between Job Reports and Employee Reality(14:27) Kelly on Building the Muscle to Adapt to Change(18:31) Mita on Transparency Before Layoffs Happen(21:27) The Shift in Employer Branding Conversations(22:37) Mistakes Companies Make During Layoffs That Damage Brand(25:04) Moments That Matter Most When Communicating Change(28:29) Shelby’s Two-Audience Approach to Layoff Planning(32:05) What Modern Support for Exiting Employees Looks Like(35:33) Balancing Empathy and Clarity in Layoff Conversations(38:58) Supporting Remaining Employees After Layoffs(45:17) Mita on Allowing Space to Acknowledge Those Who Left(47:11) Shelby on Bringing a Human-First Approach to Change(51:00) Q&A: The Problem with Silent Layoffs and How to Rebuild Trust---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Yemi Akisanya, Head of JEDI (Justice, Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion) at Axon, joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about how the DEI conversation is evolving post-2020, why quotas are being replaced with performance-aligned strategies, and how Axon is making inclusion measurable and mission-critical.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Talk to the team at Ethena.🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.MPL Links:🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (06:24) Yemi’s Life & Career Update: From Groupon to Axon(08:51) What is Axon? Tech That Protects Life (Explained Simply)(11:46) The Current State of DEI: Legal Risks, Compliance, and Backlash(13:04) How 2020 Changed the DEI Landscape—And Where It Went Off Track(15:28) The Rise and Fall of Quota-Based DEI and Legal Pushback(17:53) The New DEI Mandate: Must Be Performance-Driven and Legally Sound(19:30) Title VII and the Legal Boundaries of Hiring Decisions(22:49) Axon’s Hiring Funnel Strategy: Focus on Top-of-Funnel Diversity(24:17) Why Diverse Input Without Inclusion Breeds Tokenism(26:48) Stephen’s Experience as a Diversity Officer (2009–2011)(29:39) The Unintended Consequences of Quota-Driven Metrics(32:26) What’s Changed? Not the Law, but the Enforcement & Tone(34:06) Clarifying What Legal vs. Illegal DEI Looks Like Today(38:29) Expanding the Talent Funnel: Tactics Axon Uses to Diversify Without Quotas(41:44) Events, Job Boards, and Global Outreach to Source Talent(42:59) Applying a Funnel Mindset: DEI as Performance Marketing(45:10) Did DEI Practitioners Go Too Far? Owning the Missteps(48:03) Why Bias Isn’t Bad—But It Must Be Checked and Understood(50:30) Inclusion Surveys as Strategic Input: Measuring What Holds People Back(51:15) Daniel’s 2020 ERG Experience: Culture Celebration vs. Business Impact(53:43) Evolving ERGs into Performance Assets (Not Just Event Groups)(56:47) Performance-Driven DEI: Monitoring Ratings, Promotions, Engagement(58:47) Training for All, Cultural Context, and Blending Communities(01:01:13) Localizing DEI Efforts Globally: Lessons from Groupon(01:03:32) Axon’s Inclusion Programs, Pay Equity Audits, and Cross-Cultural Equity(01:08:20) Who Should We Have Next? Shoutout to Elizabeth Hart at Axon---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Jessica Zwaan, COO at Talentful and author of Built for People, dives into the fascinating world of AI in HR. She discusses the challenges of AI abstinence versus open use, likening tools to an Iron Man suit for decision-making. Jessica introduces her 4Bs framework—Bot, Build, Borrow, Buy—for smart adoption. The conversation touches on overcoming stigma around AI, making thoughtful investment decisions, and creating effective organizational policies. It's a thought-provoking exploration of balancing innovation and ethics in the workplace.

Pilar Muner, VP of People & Talent at ChartHop, shares her career journey from law to HR and the importance of setting boundaries in a fractional work life. She discusses how ChartHop leverages AI to streamline HR processes while ensuring data integrity. Pilar provides a crucial AI vendor checklist for HR leaders, emphasizing security and effective decision-making. She also highlights the innovative data architecture of ChartHop’s platform, showcasing how it accommodates evolving HR needs and fosters a strong internal culture.

JooBee Yeow joined us on The Modern People Leader to talk about why HR must stop overfunctioning and start diagnosing real business problems—especially when revenue is on the line. We discussed how HR leaders can step out of their silo, challenge assumptions, influence revenue growth, and flip the HR pyramid to prioritize high-impact, strategic work.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Request a demo of Workleap.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live New York.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (06:23) JooBee’s Career Journey: From Systems Engineer to Strategic HR Leader(08:34) What JooBee Learned from Partnering with CTOs over CHROs(11:48) Stephen’s Experience Managing Engineers as a CEO(14:07) Preferential Treatment or Strategic Blindspots in Tech-Heavy Teams(18:08) What JooBee Is Building: Bootcamp, Community, and Mini MBA(24:31) Why HR Gets Stuck at 50 Employees: Common Traps at Growth Stage(29:33) Same Problems, New Labels: From Headcount to AI Adoption(30:33) The Two Questions Every People Leader Must Ask(32:25) Strategic Planning ≠ Strategic Thinking: Escaping Operational Loops(34:26) The HR Hierarchy of Needs & Flipping the Pyramid(44:46) Stop Playing Admin: Behaviors That Keep HR Operational(47:29) Writing in Anger: The Story Behind JooBee’s “Drive Revenue” Newsletter(50:57) What to Do When You Won’t Hit Revenue Targets This Quarter(54:17) Where Is Revenue Leaking? 4 Common Scenarios(56:09) Don’t Start with “How”—Diagnose First(59:26) Tactical Advice: How to Be Curious and Find the Right People to Ask---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more

Tiffany Stevenson, former Chief People Officer at WeightWatchers and Patreon, joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about this being the CHROs toughest chapter yet, how AI is reshaping HR, and what HR brings to the boardroom.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live New York.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (09:35) Tiffany’s career story: From Mirage Resorts to Sephora, Box, Patreon, WW(14:34) First career break & adjusting to downtime(16:59) Learning phase: Board readiness program & executive compensation course(19:01) Why being a CHRO is harder now than during the pandemic(23:49) Reframing today’s challenges as opportunities(25:11) Stephen’s thoughts on AI transformation as a once-in-a-generation shift(28:51) Finding focus amid economic, policy, and AI noise(31:36) Tiffany’s current purpose: Leading people through transformations(33:19) Defining individual purpose & aligning with business transformation(35:21) Why she chose to invest in human-centered board skills(37:48) What board service training looks like(39:34) Realizing CHROs often undersell their impact to boards(42:46) How to position yourself for board service(46:20) Typical board makeup & where CHRO expertise fits(49:21) Misconceptions about board work & time commitment---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Priscila Bala, CEO of LifeLabs Learning, joined us on The Modern People Leader.We explored how AI is transforming learning, the enduring role of middle management, and why the most impactful leadership skills are more human than ever.---- Resources Mentioned:🔗 Sign up for LifeLabs Learning’s Culture Club.Sponsor Links:🔗 Request a demo of Workleap.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live New York.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (07:25) Priscila’s Career Journey: From VC to CEO of LifeLabs(10:57) What LifeLabs Learning Does and Their Training Philosophy(13:10) Segue to AI: “Artificial Interns” and the Human Advantage(17:42) The Emotional Edge of In-Person Learning & Why AI Can’t Replicate That(21:52) Vibe Coding, Demo Days, and the Role of Human Feedback(24:34) What AI Can’t Replace: Judgment, Context & Culture(26:31) Why Priscila is Giddy About AI’s Impact on Human Skills(29:07) DIY Learning Teams: Practical Tips & The Q-Step Tool(31:30) The Secret Sauce Behind LifeLabs’ Facilitators(35:05) Priscila’s Personal “Aha” Moments as a Former Client(37:21) Middle Management: From Crisis to AI-Era Relevance(43:25) The Real Pain for Managers Today: Overwhelm & Role Clarity(47:29) Will New Careers Move Away From Management?(49:56) Reskilling in the Age of AI: How Managers Can Navigate Change(54:22) Resources Mentioned: Culture Club & Train-the-Trainer Preview(55:47) Rapid Fire: HR Advice, Superpowers, and Dream Guest---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Jenny Molyneaux, VP of People at Vercel, joined us on The Modern People Leader.We talked about why AI is replacing HR tech spend before headcount, how Vercel’s people team is building custom AI tools to replace expensive SaaS products, and what HR leaders can do to start building with AI today.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Get your free 30-day Synthesia account.🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live New York.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (07:36) Jenny’s Career Journey: From Google to Startups & VP of People at Vercel(16:17) Lessons Learned as a People Team of One(21:37) What Vercel Does Explained Simply(28:15) How AI Will Cut Spend Before Headcount in HR(33:13) Cost Savings from Building Internal AI Tools Instead of Buying SaaS(37:22) Creating a Company Culture of AI Adoption(40:17) The Future of B2B Tech: Customization, Forking, and AI Marketplaces(44:23) Customizing Engagement Surveys for Better Insights(49:44) Jenny’s “Manager Stack” Vision for AI-Driven Performance Management(53:40) How to Start Building Internal Tools with AI(56:50) Advice for HR Leaders: Just Start Building---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn