Born Free Method: The Podcast

This is a replay of my original conversation with the late Michel Odent, MD, when I interviewed him in 2023 at the ripe age of 92. Here is a summary of our conversation…(transcript is available on Substack)Our cultural conditioning tells us that women aren’t capable of giving birth independently and that we should apply every possible intervention to reduce the difficulties associated with childbirth. For Michel Odent, that’s a neutralization of the laws of natural selection.Early in his career, Michel worked as the only doctor in a maternity unit with six midwives. He took a deep interest in their experiences and asked them questions that changed his thoughts on birth work. As a general surgeon, he credits a lot to his interdisciplinary perspective. He believes that’s what allows him to make connections that other overly-specialized people do not.Michel is a legend in the maternity care space and has been a hero of mine for many years. This interview was such an honor.Dr. Odent died August 19, 2025.00:12:00 - Dr Odent was trained as a general surgeon, before cesarean has been “perfected”. After military service, where he learned the technique, he became the head of the surgical section of the maternity unit at a Parisian hospital and he became a keen observer of the environment of birth, in a department welcoming 1000 babies per year.00:20:30 - We are asking the wrong question in our efforts at-large to fix maternity care. Instead of asking “why is birth difficult?”, perhaps we should be asking “why are some births easy?” We are overestimating the importance of mechanics. Why are some births seemingly more easy and even enjoyable than others?00:27:40 - The socialization of child birth and domination of nature starting 10000 years ago with agriculture has been a fatal error, and we must now back track to right the ship. This error coincides with the time during which human beings became (perhaps overly) domesticated themselves. 00:37:15 - When considering interventions in childbirth, the point is not to forget (or overemphasize) the benefits of surgery on occasion. We also discuss oxytocin versus Pitocin®, the fake stuff, and the role of neocortex activation in disturbing childbirth. Changing maternity care requires us to change our culture such that women are left undisturbed unless absolutely necessary to meet their goals. 00:46:10 - Michel’s perspective as a general surgeon invited into maternity care by necessity has helped him appreciate the value of an interdisciplinary approach to birth. He touches on the changes to the maternal brain through MRI imaging, reflecting the need to de-socialize prior to birth, which supports focused maternal-neonatal bonding postpartum. Michel also comments on the need to de-specialize. 00:49:45 - We have neutralized the principles of natural selection, in birth and death, and this was a turning point in the story of humankind. We also pontificate on the impacts of our war against nature on the planet at large. Lastly, we touch on the Aquatic Ape Theory, exploring the association between chronic human illness and our drifting away from shorelines. Michel Odent's Books will live on forever…Find them here. (Start with the Functions of the Orgasms)Notes for this episode are found on SubstackRelated episodes:* Helping Your Baby Navigate the Pelvis with Nicole Morales and Gail Tully* Mini-Sode: Carol Gautschi, a classical midwife, needs midwives to re-member the essence of midwifery* Oxytocin, Orgasm, and Love - An interview with Sue Carter, PhD, the world's expert on the "love hormone"This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews.* 12-month access is $750* Lifetime access is $3997 (This option comes with some other perks as well, including direct support from me and Sara for life by phone/text/email)* Fertility Deep Dive ($499) if you just want to focus on pre-conception planning and fertility, but this content is included in both of our other offerings above.We have payment plans available for the lifetime package, and we have discounts available for any of our programs for students and birthworkers. Just shoot Nathan and Sara an email: support@bornfreemethod.com .Work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-BreechMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5 Get full access to Born Free Method: The Podcast at nathanrileyobgyn.substack.com/subscribe

Jes Reynolds is a registered physiotherapist and holistic health practitioner, and the driving force behind The Wellness Element. Drawing on her personal experience with hyperemesis gravidarum (HG), she now empowers pregnant women to prevent and reverse severe morning sickness through natural, root‑cause solutions—no medications required—and helps them feel strong, nourished, and energized throughout their pregnancy.00:03:28 - Holistic Pregnancy Health ManagementJes shared her personal experience with pregnancy-related health issues, including preeclampsia, cholestasis, and hyperemesis, and how she used a low histamine diet and other interventions to manage her symptoms. She explained that her approach was not arbitrary but based on her clinical experience and research, including insights from Dr. Ben Lynch. Jes emphasized the importance of a personalized and holistic assessment when working with clients, considering factors such as liver function, gut health, nervous system, and kidney function. She also discussed the potential for clients to reintroduce restricted foods after pregnancy, depending on their individual needs and responses.00:12:20 - Liver-Kidney Detoxification PathwaysNathan and Jes discussed the complex relationship between the liver and kidneys, highlighting how the kidneys serve as a backup detoxification pathway when the liver is not functioning optimally. They explored the benefits of glandular support, particularly organ meats, and the importance of addressing nutrient deficiencies to optimize liver detoxification processes. Jes shared her experience with raw liver consumption postpartum to address hair loss and explained the timeline of histamine-related symptoms during pregnancy. They also discussed the role of vitamins and nutrients as cofactors in detoxification pathways, emphasizing the body's complex processes for protecting and eliminating toxins.00:34:00 - Preconception Health: Emotional and Energetic FactorsJes and Nathan discussed holistic approaches to pregnancy and preconception health, focusing on emotional and energetic factors that may influence health outcomes. Jes emphasized the importance of addressing emotional resistance to pregnancy, particularly in type-A accomplished women, and highlighted the role of somatic practices and emotional release in supporting liver function and overall health. They explored the concept of epigenetics and the potential to influence future generations through preconception health practices. Nathan and Jes agreed that allowing oneself to feel and process emotions, rather than suppressing them, is crucial for both individual well-being and the health of children.00:45:25 - Pregnancy Detox and Nutrition ProgramJes discussed her approach to detoxification and cleansing, emphasizing the importance of addressing the body's terrain and supporting natural detoxification processes. She shared her experience with star anise as a safe herb for pregnant women and explained her upcoming program, "The Human Blueprint," designed for women planning future pregnancies. Jes also highlighted the significance of digestive strength in nutrient absorption and addressed common pregnancy issues like food aversions, suggesting that they are often linked to the body's need to conserve energy. Nathan encouraged Jes to share her expertise with others and mentioned plans to refer clients to her. They also touch on MTFHR gene mutations and their implication in HG.00:51:35 - Collaborative Approach to HG TreatmentJes discussed her holistic approach to treating hyperemesis gravidarum (HG) by connecting different medical silos and emphasized the importance of collaboration in healthcare, sharing an example from her work in the UK where daily team meetings improved patient outcomes. She explained her journey from physiotherapy to a broader health practice focused on pregnancy and postpartum care, and shared her rebranding efforts to better reflect this focus. Nathan expressed support for her work and discussed the need for more curiosity and openness in the medical field, suggesting a future where practitioners like Jes could be easily accessed for various health needs.Connect with Jes on Instagram. Listen to her podcast. And check out her practice.References from the show:* Dirty Genes: A Revolutionary Approach to Health and Wellness Through Nutritional Genetics and Personalized Plans for a Happier, Healthier, by Ben Lynch, ND* Low Histamine Diet 101This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews.* 12-month access is $750* Lifetime access is $3997 (This option comes with some other perks as well, including direct support from me and Sara for life by phone/text/email)* Fertility Deep Dive ($499) if you just want to focus on pre-conception planning and fertility, but this content is included in both of our other offerings above.We have payment plans available for the lifetime package, and we have discounts available for any of our programs for students and birthworkers. Just shoot Nathan and Sara an email: support@bornfreemethod.com .Notes for this episode are found on SubstackWork with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-BreechMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5 Get full access to Born Free Method: The Podcast at nathanrileyobgyn.substack.com/subscribe

In this conversation, Nathan interviews Kyle Kingsbury, a former UFC combatant, about fatherhood, self-mastery, and personal growth. Kyle shares his transformation from a performance-driven lifestyle to embracing emotional, mental, and spiritual well-being, highlighting the importance of addressing past traumas and building self-awareness through practices like meditation and plant medicine. The discussion emphasizes the significance of presence and play in parenting, the evolving roles of men and women in the family, and the need to prioritize relationships over material success. Kyle advocates for building supportive communities and tribes, recognizing the unique challenges modern parents face. He introduces his upcoming online community, retreats, and courses designed to foster connection, movement, and holistic health. The conversation encourages listeners to embrace vulnerability, continuous growth, and the central role of family in a fulfilling life. * 0:00:23 Introduction, Kyle’s impact as a friend and teacher* 0:10:54 - Kyle’s personal journey: struggles, mental health, and transformation* 0:19:00 - Physical fitness, self-experimentation, and the role of fighting in self-awareness* 0:22:20 - Meditation practices and their impact on self-mastery* 0:30:55 - Emotional health, vulnerability, and the importance of crying and purging* 0:36:51 - Coaching clients: integrating physical, mental, and emotional health* 0:44:04 - Overcoming stereotypes as a coach* 0:47:43 - Parenting, fatherhood, and the importance of presence and play* 1:04:06 - Lifelong parenting, imprinting, and reprioritizing after becoming a parent* 1:13:49 - Redefining masculinity, work-life balance, and the role of fathers* 1:16:21 - The evolving role of women, matriarchy, and honoring the feminine* 1:22:17 - Summary: prioritizing family, embracing new archetypes, and advice for parents* 1:25:17 - Kyle’s new offerings: * Be among the first to work with Kyle and engage with his new online coaching community (Learn more). * You can also register for his upcoming Austin retreat: The Rising, which is an all-inclusive, 5-day immersive experience designed to reconnect you with your body, your food, and your purpose.Connect with Kyle on Instagram, and definitely check out his podcast! It’s one of my favorites…In this show, we also mentioned:* The Cosmic Serpent: DNA and the Origins of Knowledge — by Jeremy Narby* The Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less — by Greg McKeown* How to Eat, Move and Be Healthy! — by Paul ChekThis episode was sponsored by Born Free Method. The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews.* 12-month access is $750* Lifetime access is $3997 (This option comes with some other perks as well, including direct support from me and Sara for life by phone/text/email)* Fertility Deep Dive ($499) if you just want to focus on pre-conception planning and fertility, but this content is included in both of our other offerings above.We have payment plans available for the lifetime package, and we have discounts available for any of our programs for students and birthworkers. Just shoot Nathan and Sara an email: support@bornfreemethod.com . Notes for this episode are found on SubstackWork with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-BreechMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5 Get full access to Born Free Method: The Podcast at nathanrileyobgyn.substack.com/subscribe

In this solo cast, I am not looking at data and reviewing journal articles. I’m pontificating on how we might reimagine the birth of children through the lens of “safety”. The nervous system responds to our environment, so the environment - including external inputs like sound and internal inputs like thoughts - will lead to physiologic changes throughout our bodies depending on whether our nervous systems are sensing safety. Ideally, we would all feel safe when the environment is safe, but this is unfortunately not the case for all adults, even in the “wealthy” United States. This is even more important when we consider a baby’s need to feel safe…To understand this in a more comprehensive way than we learn in medical school, I will be drawing on Polyvagal Theroy and the Perinatal Matrix Theory. If you’re unfamiliar, here is a synopsis of each:Polyvagal Theory, developed by Stephen Porges, PhD, explains how our autonomic nervous system regulates safety, connection, and defense. It describes three states: social engagement (ventral vagal), fight-or-flight (sympathetic), and shutdown (dorsal vagal). Understanding these helps explain trauma responses and how co-regulation and safety cues restore calm and connection.Stan Grof’s (MD) perinatal matrix theory links stages of birth to deep layers of the unconscious. He describes four Basic Perinatal Matrices (BPM I–IV): blissful womb, constriction, struggle through the birth canal, and birth/release. These stages shape emotional patterns, trauma, and spiritual experiences throughout life.The environment within which a baby develops is critical. We know this. So why wouldn’t the environment after birth matter just as much? And if we were to prioritize the optimization of the birth experience - for both the baby and his parents - would this lead to widespread changes in our world?It’s a lofty claim, but I think it’s possible. Enjoy this exploration. If you like this conversation, you’ll love the Born Free Method, as this solo-cast elaborates the cornerstone of my approach to childbirth alongside my best friend (and a badass midwife) Sara Rosser, CPM. You can access over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews. 12-month access is $750Lifetime access is $3997 (plus you get direct support from me and Sara for life by phone/text/email/whatever)We also offer a Fertility Deep Dive ($499) if you just want to focus on pre-conception planning and fertility, but this content is included in both of our other offerings above. We have payment plans available for the lifetime package, and we have discounts available for any of our programs for students and birthworkers. Just shoot us an email: support@bornfreemethod.comNotes for this episode are found on SubstackWork with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-BreechMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5 Get full access to Born Free Method: The Podcast at nathanrileyobgyn.substack.com/subscribe

Trigger warning: This conversation exploring the depths of stillbirth. I met MaKayla Wonder a year or so ago, soon after she and her husband, Adam, experienced the devastation of a stillbirth. If the news of realizing their baby, Declan, had died in-utero wasn’t bad enough, their treatment in the hospital left them shattered, which brought them to the Born Free Method community. In this powerful conversation, MaKayla and Adam share the layered story of her journey to motherhood—one marked by the heartbreaking stillbirth of her son, Declan, and the redemptive birth of her daughter, Heidi. With honesty and grace, she recounts how fear, cultural conditioning, and a chaotic hospital experience left her feeling abandoned in her first birth journey. Seeking a different path, MaKayla turned inward, trusting her intuition and embracing the Born Free Method, which helped her heal and reclaim her power. Her story is not one of simple tragedy or triumph but of integration—holding space for both sorrow and joy, death and life, within one sacred womb. Through vulnerability and courage, MaKayla reminds us that birth is not just a medical event, but a profoundly spiritual and emotional rite of passage. This episode offers a tender and transformative look into the resilience of the human spirit and the wisdom of mothers. Here are some main topics we covered:* The Duality of Birth and Loss: The emotional complexity of holding space for both the grief of losing a baby and the joy of welcoming another.* The Impact of Medicalized Maternity Care: Reflections on the impersonal and disempowering aspects of her hospital experience, including a lack of support and clarity during her stillbirth.* Intuition vs. Intervention: MaKayla’s growing mistrust of the conventional birth system and her shift toward a more intuitive, personalized approach to pregnancy and birth.* The Born Free Method’s Role in Healing: How the support of the Born Free Method community helped her process her trauma, rebuild trust in her body, and approach her second birth with intention and support.* Honoring Both Stories: How mothers can integrate seemingly opposing birth experiences into a unified narrative—one that honors the child who died and celebrates the child who lives.This interview was a follow-up to an anonymous conversation with Makayla prior to her conceiving and birthing Heidi. That first conversation is available in our FREE Pregnancy Loss program also available at www.BornFreeMethod.com. If you’re interested in enrolling as a midwife or a student or if you’re a birthing family looking for support, head to www.BornFreeMethod.com. Code STUDENT50 gets you 50% if you enroll in the month of June!For our comprehensive digital playground, live calls, and lifetime, direct support), we also offer payment plans! (3-month and 12-month options)If you aren’t ready for the full investment, we offer a less-pricey but more limited Fertility Deep Dive. You can also pay a monthly subscription to simply attend our twice monthly live calls (and view past recordings).www.BornFreeMethod.comNotes for this episode are found on SubstackWork with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-BreechMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5 Get full access to Born Free Method: The Podcast at nathanrileyobgyn.substack.com/subscribe

Born Free Method has undergone a makeover…a massive makeover. Our pet project is now the most comprehensive pregnancy support program on the planet, including 60+ hours of lessons, twice monthly recorded group calls (and access to the recordings of all past calls), a private community forum, and direct access to Nathan and Sara for life. After we had a moment to decompress from this massive undertaking, Sara and I sat down to reflect on the journey of launching Born Free Method back in May, 2023, and then rebuilding the whole program based on the feedback of our community and new insights from births that we have attended since the launch. The Born Free Method can best be described as a digital playground for seekers—students, midwives, birthing families, and misfits alike. Through our thriving community at the Born Free Method, we honor imperfection, speak to love and surrender to the current of childbirth. Through it all, one thread has emerged above all: community matters. The “data” or any curriculum proposed by a childbirth support program pales in comparison to the connections forged from direct support by an OBGYN and a midwife to birthing families, where stories are medicine, and transformation begins with telling the truth. This conversation dances between birth and belief, method and mystery. We explored public perception of birth choices, breastfeeding, and the brave work of reimagining maternity care. Amid reflections on family, mentorship, and fractured systems, a deeper current ran through this conversation: our ongoing courage to question, to hold space, to show up. And as a bridge between worlds…we are bound to get stepped on, which we discuss as well.Here is a sampling of what we cover in this conversation:* New updates to the Born Free Method, now redesigned as an interactive, self-guided platform with comprehensive explanation of low- and high-risk pregnancy and birth scenarios.* Reflections on the program’s evolution, emphasizing the importance of community feedback, personalization, and ongoing learning.* The importance of the supportive environment that we've built, where mentorship, vulnerability, and experiential learning are prioritized over rigid dogma.* Broader themes around faith, family dynamics, and control, linking personal stories to societal patterns of power and belief.If you’re interested in enrolling as a midwife or a student or if you’re a birthing family looking for support, head to www.bornfreemethod.com. Code STUDENT50 gets you 50% if you enroll in the month of June!For our comprehensive digital playground, live calls, and lifetime, direct support), we also offer payment plans! (3-month and 12-month options)If you aren’t ready for the full investment, we offer a less-pricey but more limited Fertility Deep Dive. You can also pay a monthly subscription to simply attend our twice monthly live calls (and view past recordings). www.BornFreeMethod.comMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5 Get full access to Born Free Method: The Podcast at nathanrileyobgyn.substack.com/subscribe

Get full access to Born Free Method: The Podcast at nathanrileyobgyn.substack.com/subscribe

Get full access to Born Free Method: The Podcast at nathanrileyobgyn.substack.com/subscribe

Dr. Sarah Pederson is founder of Vera Fertility where she uses Naprotechnology and a restorative reproductive health approach to find and treat the root cause of hormone imbalances and infertility. Rose MacKenzie is the Clinical Manager at MiraCare.com, where she assists healthcare professionals in effectively integrating Mira's hormone monitoring tools into their practices. Rose is well-equipped to provide education and support to providers and fertility awareness educators. Additionally, Rose brings nearly a decade of experience as a natural family planning instructor, specializing in the Marquette and Sympto-Thermal Methods. For more information about Mira: 1. Introduction to Mira video (produced for practitioners but also valuable for non-practitioner) 2. Book a meeting with Mira staff (for providers) 3. 20% discount code: BELOVED20 Episode is available for listening on all podcast platforms AND you can watch our interview and walk through the case studies presented if you check out the episode on Youtube.Notes for this episode are found on SubstackWork with Nathan:Beloved Holistics | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-BreechMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5 Get full access to Born Free Method: The Podcast at nathanrileyobgyn.substack.com/subscribe

I recently completed a 3-part essay series on Oxytocin versus Pitocin®. In Part 1, I focused on oxytocin and its activities throughout the conception and childbirth continuum. Part 2 focused on the increased use of synthetic oxytocin (Pitocin®) in the conventional, hospital-based maternity care model. Part 3 focused on the potential detrimental effects of the nearly ubiquitous use of Pitocin® in U.S.-based childbirth, considering that 98% or more of birth are happening within hospitals.Well, my guest in this interview is the world’s expert on Oxytocin. Sue Carter, PhD, has a laundry list of accolades. She spent most of her career as a professor of medicine at the Universities of Virginia and Indiana. A quick Pubmed search is very revealing…Dr. Carter is the real deal. And her research into Oxytocin was extremely helpful to this series of essays and my own appreciation for this magical molecule. This interview was also conducted as a community call with the Born Free Method community members. So there is also some live Q&A action. (If you aren’t familiar with the Born Free Method, it’s the most comprehensive childbirth education program on the planet. In fact, it’s so unique that it’s not fair to even categorize is “childbirth education”. It’s a part of a childbirth revolution.)Notes for this episode are found on SubstackWork with Nathan:Beloved Holistics | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-BreechMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5 Get full access to Born Free Method: The Podcast at nathanrileyobgyn.substack.com/subscribe