Born Free Method: The Podcast In the Waters of Rememberance: Honoring an Obstetrics Hero
This is a replay of my original conversation with the late Michel Odent, MD, when I interviewed him in 2023 at the ripe age of 92. Here is a summary of our conversation…(transcript is available on Substack)Our cultural conditioning tells us that women aren’t capable of giving birth independently and that we should apply every possible intervention to reduce the difficulties associated with childbirth. For Michel Odent, that’s a neutralization of the laws of natural selection.
Early in his career, Michel worked as the only doctor in a maternity unit with six midwives. He took a deep interest in their experiences and asked them questions that changed his thoughts on birth work. As a general surgeon, he credits a lot to his interdisciplinary perspective. He believes that’s what allows him to make connections that other overly-specialized people do not.
Michel is a legend in the maternity care space and has been a hero of mine for many years. This interview was such an honor.
Dr. Odent died August 19, 2025.
00:12:00 - Dr Odent was trained as a general surgeon, before cesarean has been “perfected”. After military service, where he learned the technique, he became the head of the surgical section of the maternity unit at a Parisian hospital and he became a keen observer of the environment of birth, in a department welcoming 1000 babies per year.
00:20:30 - We are asking the wrong question in our efforts at-large to fix maternity care. Instead of asking “why is birth difficult?”, perhaps we should be asking “why are some births easy?” We are overestimating the importance of mechanics. Why are some births seemingly more easy and even enjoyable than others?
00:27:40 - The socialization of child birth and domination of nature starting 10000 years ago with agriculture has been a fatal error, and we must now back track to right the ship. This error coincides with the time during which human beings became (perhaps overly) domesticated themselves.
00:37:15 - When considering interventions in childbirth, the point is not to forget (or overemphasize) the benefits of surgery on occasion. We also discuss oxytocin versus Pitocin®, the fake stuff, and the role of neocortex activation in disturbing childbirth. Changing maternity care requires us to change our culture such that women are left undisturbed unless absolutely necessary to meet their goals.
00:46:10 - Michel’s perspective as a general surgeon invited into maternity care by necessity has helped him appreciate the value of an interdisciplinary approach to birth. He touches on the changes to the maternal brain through MRI imaging, reflecting the need to de-socialize prior to birth, which supports focused maternal-neonatal bonding postpartum. Michel also comments on the need to de-specialize.
00:49:45 - We have neutralized the principles of natural selection, in birth and death, and this was a turning point in the story of humankind. We also pontificate on the impacts of our war against nature on the planet at large. Lastly, we touch on the Aquatic Ape Theory, exploring the association between chronic human illness and our drifting away from shorelines.
Michel Odent's Books will live on forever…Find them here. (Start with the Functions of the Orgasms)
Notes for this episode are found on Substack
Related episodes:
* Helping Your Baby Navigate the Pelvis with Nicole Morales and Gail Tully
* Mini-Sode: Carol Gautschi, a classical midwife, needs midwives to re-member the essence of midwifery
This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.
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