Born Free Method: The Podcast The Secret Life of the Unborn Child: Dr. Thomas Verny on the Embodied Mind, Epigenetics, and Transgenerational Healing
Thomas R. Verny, MD, is a psychiatrist, writer, poet, and one of the pioneers in the field of prenatal and perinatal psychology. Born in 1936 in Bratislava (then Czechoslovakia), Dr. Verny immigrated to Canada, where he became known for exploring how experiences before and shortly after birth shape psychological development.
He co-founded the Association for Pre- and Perinatal Psychology and Health (APPPAH) in 1983 and authored the widely influential book The Secret Life of the Unborn Child (1981, with John Kelly), which brought prenatal psychology into mainstream awareness. Dr. Verny’s later works, including The Embodied Mind (2021), continue his interest in the mind-body connection, consciousness, and the role of memory and biology in human behavior.
Dr. Verny has taught at Harvard University, the University of Toronto, and York University, and continues to lecture internationally on early development, consciousness, and holistic approaches to psychology.
All of Dr. Verny’s work can be found at his website.
00:10:00 - what is pre-/perinatal psychology? Does consciousness precede or succeed childbirth? The ways in which babies are conceived and birthed may matter far more than many would admit. Asking good questions is the hallmark of the scientific method, but asking questions is largely disincentivized nowadays
00:19:10 - Unborn babies respond to sound, stress, etc, especially later in pregnancy. Does this imply consciousness or merely primitive reflexes? The elephant in the room: if my baby is conscious in the womb, how does this inform abortion policy?
00:33:18 - The goal of a living mother/baby after childbirth is an unacceptably shortsighted goal in maternity care.
00:38:16 - The impacts of IVF/IUI on the psyche of the unborn child, Stan Grof’s perinatal matrices theory
00:46:50 - C-section may imprint on that child the idea that “I can’t do this on my own”…might this be reflected in a society where so many are so willing to outsource their power in their own birth ? In order to move forward with healing we must look backward into our biographies. Working on the symptoms through behavioral therapy isn’t sufficient.
00:53:10 - How does trans generational trauma or imprinting work? Bonding with your children begins while the child is still in the womb.
01:07:48 - It’s sometimes difficult to differentiate between the biological and psychological (more on trauma transference)
01:16:30 - Children aren’t inherently “good” or “bad” because their “behaviors” may be an expression of a story from their lineage that has been suppressed
01:19:10 - How might psychedelics be useful as therapies in resolving birth trauma?
All of Dr. Verny’s work can be found at his website.
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References from the conversation:
* Dr. Verny’s interview with Gerlinda Metz, PhD
* Holocaust Exposure Induced Intergenerational Effects on FKBP5 Methylation (2016)
* Oxytocin versus Pitocin®: Induction of Labor and a World Without Love (3-part essay series)
* Dr. Verny interviews Klaus Käppeli (“Test Tube Babies Remember”)
* Dr. Verny interviews Gerlinde Metz (“The Transgenerational Transmission of Stress”)
Related episodes:
* My first conversation Q&A with Thomas Verny from our Born Free Method community
* In the Waters of Rememberance: Honoring an Obstetrics Hero
This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.
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