Gold or Bitcoin? The answer to that question—as always—depends on whom you ask. Yet the response will regularly be a passionate one. The exchange-traded fund has played an enormous role in making both assets more accessible, part of the reason 2024 was such a banner year. With the debut of spot Bitcoin ETFs and Donald Trump’s election (given his embrace cryptocurrency during the campaign), we now look to what the new year means for both. On this episode of Trillions, recorded at Bloomberg’s “ETFs in Depth” event on Dec. 12 in New York, Eric Balchunas and Joel Weber discuss the two sectors with Simeon Hyman of ProShares, David Lavalle of Grayscale and George Million-Stanley of State Street Global Advisors. The group explores gold and Bitcoin as a store of value, how each asset can benefit investors and even how the two can coexist in a single portfolio. They also discuss what to make of Trump’s recent enthusiasm for crypto and how their companies are preparing for the incoming administration.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It's pretty safe to say that 2024 was the best year ever for ETFs. The industry saw record flows of $1 trillion, a record 670 new launches and a 30% jump in assets- not to mention that record smashing bitcoin ETF launch. So how do you top that? On this episode of Trillions Joel and Eric host a roundtable discussion on highlights from 2024 as well as predictions for 2025 with Todd Rosenbluth, head of research at VettaFi, Vildana Hajric, reporter with Bloomberg News and Athanasios Psarofagis, ETF Analyst with Bloomberg Intelligence.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

John Davi, CEO of Astoria Portfolio Advisors, shares his expertise in ETF strategies and portfolio management. He discusses the impressive run of US large-cap stocks and questions how long it can last. Davi highlights his top picks for 2025, including small caps, commodities, and mortgage-backed bonds. The conversation delves into IPO-focused ETFs, the risks of tech investments, and innovative strategies to navigate changing markets. He emphasizes the importance of balancing growth with risk in portfolio construction.

“The House That Jack Bogle Built” is alive and well in sleepy Malvern, Pennsylvania. So far this year, the asset management firm that pioneered low-cost investing—so much so that “beta” is almost free now—has hoovered up another $256 billion of inflows into its US exchange-traded funds. But as the company nears its 50th anniversary, can it continue to succeed without changing its tried-and-true ways? On this episode of Trillions, Eric Balchunas and Joel Weber speak with Vanguard’s Janel Jackson, head of bank and institutional in the company’s Financial Advisor Services division. They discuss her time at Vanguard, how she discovered the power of ETFs, why the company remains “true to label” despite the industry’s love of “spicy” products and even where Vanguard might look to push the envelope. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

One of the year’s hottest investments? Bitcoin, which has surged on exchange-traded fund adoption as well as the return of the “Trump trade.” One way to go especially big on that bet is two new leveraged ETFs: MSTX and MSTU, which are 2X MicroStrategy—a company that’s already a highly exposed Bitcoin proxy. Both ETFs effectively give investors a 4X exposure to Bitcoin. If that sounds volatile, it is: MSTX is the most volatile ETF in the US. Consider this space the “ghost pepper” of hot sauces. On this episode of Trillions, Eric Balchunas and Joel Weber speak with Sylvia Jablonski, the CEO and CIO of Defiance ETFs—the issuer behind MSTX. They discuss how the product came into existence, what the Trump trade has meant for inflows, why there’s a modest rivalry with MSTU already, how investors are using options on the product and what makes a good “ghost pepper.”See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Vildana Hajric, a Bloomberg cross-asset reporter, joins Todd Rosenbluth from VettaFi and ETF analyst Athanasios Seraphagus to dissect the surprising surge in ETF closures during a bullish market. They explore the shutdown of niche funds like those in cannabis and travel, emphasizing market saturation and innovation needs. The panel discusses failures of thematic ETFs post-pandemic and examines why even strong commodities, like gold, saw their ETFs struggle. Their insights reveal a complex landscape full of unexpected twists and evolving investor interests.

Derivatives-enhanced exchange-traded funds have become a hit with retail investors. There’s been more than 160 such launches so far this year, with monikers such as “laddered buffer” and “covered call,” and they’ve attracted $50 billion and counting. While many of the products were designed to protect from downturns, some include options that can generate cash, which comes back to investors in the form of dividends. (Did someone say “yields”?) On this episode of Trillions, Eric Balchunas and Joel Weber speak with Denitsa Tsekova and Vildana Hajric, Bloomberg cross-asset reporters who wrote a recent feature story about this new retail boom. The group is also joined by Todd Akin, a retail trader behind the Unconventional Wealth Ideas YouTube channel and one of the characters in their story. They discuss why these ETFs have become so popular, how they work—and what the risks are.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Vilda, a cross-asset reporter at Bloomberg News, dives into the exciting world of blending illiquid private credit into liquid ETFs. She discusses the recent partnership between State Street and Apollo and its potential to democratize private investment access. The conversation touches on regulatory challenges, liquidity concerns, and how this move could reshape the investment landscape. Vilda also shares insights into the innovative strategies behind ETF tickers, adding a fun twist to the serious financial discussions.

For every stock that enters an index like the S&P 500 or Russell 1000, another must exit. One might assume these “deletions” are a sorrowful bunch whose demotion to the B-team means they’re no longer worthy of your portfolio. Yet Rob Arnott, founder of Research Affiliates and a longtime champion of “smart beta,” discovered that many of these rejects tend to perform better after being dropped from the indexes. On this episode, Eric and Joel speak with Arnott about his new exchange-traded fund, $NIXT, which holds dozens of such stocks with equal-weighting. They discuss how the ETF—Arnott’s first launch—may complement your portfolio, what’s behind the performance, how the portfolio rebalances and why smart beta has endured.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The idea of using leverage to layer one investment return, say equities, on top of another, say a managed futures strategy, is something institutional investors have been doing for decades under the term “portable alpha.” Now a suite of young, fast-growing exchange-traded funds have come along—they’re called “return stacking” ETFs—and they’re offering such layering to the masses. On this episode, Joel and Eric speak with Corey Hoffstein, chief executive and chief information officer of Newfound Research and one of the masterminds behind the Return Stacked ETF suite. They discuss how these ETFs work, where they fit in a portfolio and why this is a more responsible use of leverage than the kind that blew up the market in 2008. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.